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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#661 - 2014-11-25 20:24:49 UTC
Gommel Nox wrote:
Aerious wrote:
Goon tears are the best tears!


Aren't they just? However, there was a matter that I wanted to put to the developers, however I cannot be bothered to read through all thirtysomething pages of this thread to see if you've already addressed it. The matter is this: for the past 11 years I have been a quadriplegic, completely lacking the ability to move my hands above the wrist, including my fingers. I've always said to people in and out of the disabled community that eve online is a fantastic game to play if you have limited mobility. The user interface, coupled with its reliance on the mouse as an input, can make it a fantastic game to play, depending on what adaptive equipment and software you may have.

In my own personal case, I have to use voice recognition in order to type. For that I use Dragon NaturallySpeaking, and it's worked fine. However, my lack of mobility has at times translated to **** poor playing, especially in the PVP arena. To address this, I've used custom macros within Dragon NaturallySpeaking, as well as the software say2play, which translates certain voiceCommands into keystrokes. Certain actions like deploying/retrieving drones, Firing on a target that's locked, or even stopping my ship. According to the OP, Software like this is banworthy. So I would like to know, ones and for all, what CCP's position is on adaptive hardware and software for disabled people like myself.

If you are controlling one account with it, you have no worries.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
CCP Falcon
#662 - 2014-11-25 20:25:14 UTC
Mildew Wolf wrote:
)))


My god, your avatar is genuinely disturbing.

Lol

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Paranoid Loyd
#663 - 2014-11-25 20:25:21 UTC
Apo Lamperouge wrote:
Jvpiter wrote:
Angus McRothimay wrote:
However, using an exploit to cover the cost of subscription isn't really subscribing, If no one spent real money on the game there would be no game to play.



The cost of subscription is always paid with real money. There may simply be less buyers of PLEX but we don't have enough information to make a definitive conclusion.



How do you figure? If you are mining 2b a day with these 25+ miners, and a plex is/was say 850m, lets do the math

$15 x 25 = $375 per month.

However, if you are mining say 2b a day, for only 20 days a month out of 30, then your 2b x 20d = 40b

850,000,000 x 25 accounts = 21.25b

That still leaves you with a net profit of 18.75b/month isk.

And you tell me that you are PAYING to play? Are you sh!tting me?

Come on. What moron who profits 18b a month actually BUYS their game time. I may have been born during the day, but it wasn't yesterday.

I average about 10 bil/mo profit with three accounts and pay for them. That being said, you totally missed his point, he didn't say he pays for them he said they are paid with real money.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#664 - 2014-11-25 20:25:28 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Sylphy wrote:
This is how a MMO begins to die. Next we'll see is a ban on scamming activities, communicating outside of EVE Voice *Teamspeak/Mumble/etc* and consequently, the birth of World of Warcraft 2.

Go CCP, I can forsee PLEX prices going up by about 150% in the next 3 months.

Sorry, no. This is how an MMO thrives. People being able to "pay to win" (which is exactly what ISBOXed bomber and mining fleets were doing) is a bad idea.

Incidentally, PLEX prices are already dropping, over 50mil since the announcement.


lol, you dont need to and proably wont/should use the synergy (doing the same on all acounts) while mining, Having the screens nicely stacked With isb boxer is all whats needed, and remember we still have fleet Warp :) So i see nothing changing for miners.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#665 - 2014-11-25 20:25:44 UTC
Strata Maslav wrote:
If I buy plex sell it and buy a titan and kill someone's carrier with a dooms day isn't that pay to win?

It's a different kind of "pay to win". Selling PLEX to buy a Titan simply hastens something that a single player could already do. By ISBoxing 20 miners, 20 bombers, or 20 anything at once, you were, in effect, paying to do something that was impossible for any one character to do.

Sylphy wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Incidentally, PLEX prices are already dropping, over 50mil since the announcement.


Let's check PLEX prices again in 3 months and see who was right, shall we? Marking your name and my calendar for a regular check-up on Feb 25th, 2015. I'll contact you in-game.

Weren't you leaving?

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
#666 - 2014-11-25 20:26:29 UTC
Jon Hellguard wrote:
Prepare for epic inflation in the character transfer market starting january 1st, 2015. Big smile

For what it's worth - thank you CCP for taking action. Next up will be the Alliance Logo's, right?


no it will be POS CODE

there's so many thing to fix in eve.... and they fix forum ! GJ! but ok i like it !

CCP Fozzie : AFK cloaking, however, is an entirely social form of power
Apo Lamperouge
#667 - 2014-11-25 20:26:30 UTC
kraken11 jensen wrote:
Apo Lamperouge wrote:
Jvpiter wrote:
Angus McRothimay wrote:
However, using an exploit to cover the cost of subscription isn't really subscribing, If no one spent real money on the game there would be no game to play.



The cost of subscription is always paid with real money. There may simply be less buyers of PLEX but we don't have enough information to make a definitive conclusion.



How do you figure? If you are mining 2b a day with these 25+ miners, and a plex is/was say 850m, lets do the math

$15 x 25 = $375 per month.

However, if you are mining say 2b a day, for only 20 days a month out of 30, then your 2b x 20d = 40b

850,000,000 x 25 accounts = 21.25b

That still leaves you with a net profit of 18.75b/month isk.

And you tell me that you are PAYING to play? Are you sh!tting me?

Come on. What moron who profits 18b a month actually BUYS their game time. I may have been born during the day, but it wasn't yesterday.



If no one was buying game time? then no one would sell. right? Think m8, Think. :)


You didn't get what I said. I pay for the game time of my assorted accounts. But does someone who has 25 or 50 or 100? Forget that. Especially if you are profiting obscene amounts of isk from it.

If I was to use ISBox it would be so I could make obscene amounts of isk, so I wouldnt have to buy game time. But I only mine when I have to. I pvp, and I rat. I buy big shiny stuff with my isk so I can kill other peoples big shiny sh!t.

If you are spending $400 or $1000 a month on this game on 50 or 100 accounts and are ISBoxing, you are doing it wrong.

Money comes out of my wallet and goes to CCP.

The guys buying plex with isk from mining don't.

Sometimes a knife right through your heart is exactly what you need.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#668 - 2014-11-25 20:27:13 UTC
kraken11 jensen wrote:
lol, you dont need to and proably wont/should use the synergy (doing the same on all acounts) while mining, Having the screens nicely stacked With isb boxer is all whats needed, and remember we still have fleet Warp :) So i see nothing changing for miners.

Admittedly, this will be less of a blow to miners than it will to, say, ISBoxing bombers or Ishtar fleets, but it will still be a blow.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Lida B Or
B. Or inc.
#669 - 2014-11-25 20:28:05 UTC
Just a quick +1 on the good idea side!

Oh and yes, this is the first thread that made me actually log in and post on the forum.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#670 - 2014-11-25 20:28:08 UTC
Kagehisa Shintaro wrote:
Whether he paid €/$ or PLEX'ed off market matters not. Someone paid for the PLEX. CCP got their dime ($15 worth of dimes, times 80)


And since CCP already got their cash, does it matter to them when that ISBoxer converts 80 PLEX into game time? Hell, no! All it means is that there are more PLEX on the market thus driving down the isk cost.

CCP cares when someone creates PLEX by buying them for rl cash. That is all.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Toria Nynys
Surly Dinos
#671 - 2014-11-25 20:28:47 UTC
Apo Lamperouge wrote:
Jvpiter wrote:
Angus McRothimay wrote:
However, using an exploit to cover the cost of subscription isn't really subscribing, If no one spent real money on the game there would be no game to play.



The cost of subscription is always paid with real money. There may simply be less buyers of PLEX but we don't have enough information to make a definitive conclusion.



How do you figure? If you are mining 2b a day with these 25+ miners, and a plex is/was say 850m, lets do the math

$15 x 25 = $375 per month.

However, if you are mining say 2b a day, for only 20 days a month out of 30, then your 2b x 20d = 40b

850,000,000 x 25 accounts = 21.25b

That still leaves you with a net profit of 18.75b/month isk.

And you tell me that you are PAYING to play? Are you sh!tting me?

Come on. What moron who profits 18b a month actually BUYS their game time. I may have been born during the day, but it wasn't yesterday.



Your math is off. I overheard someone claiming 2-3B a day mining in null with 11 accounts. 25 should bring in somewhere around double that (there is some loss to inefficiency, it's not a straight linear increase). So it's roughly the same amount of work to PLEX accounts whether it's 1 or 25. But AFTER they're paid for the income scales nearly linearly with each additional account. Think closer to 40B a month with "just" 11 accounts to painlessly pew with, double it for 25.
Adunh Slavy
#672 - 2014-11-25 20:28:55 UTC
CCP has been making too many good decisions of late.

Has anyone checked the water Reykjavik? Alien invasion, body snatchers, eve playing zombie out break ... sumthin

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#673 - 2014-11-25 20:29:45 UTC
KeeperRus wrote:
FunGu Arsten wrote:
Xython wrote:
corebloodbrothers wrote:
Also the dude iskboxing 20 mining accounts wasnt going to use those too activly use those to make eve a more exciting place, rather then his own gain.


"The dude" is up to over 80, actually, according ot the iskboxer dev.


funny thing is... he doesn't actualy need "broadcasting"/"automation functions".. and i hope he keeps mining them ice :D

That is what I have been trying to say... This so called nerf to ISboxer does nothing. Why? Because a very very small percentage that used ISboxer multi broadcast while the majority used it with single.

So this hoopla that woot GJ CCP does nothing. They will still play, still kill you and in more numbers than 10 =)

Props to the guy who ran 30 accounts in pvp cause I have seen him do a 30 man fleet better than most of the 30 man fleets in eve.

Again lets recap:

1. Changes nothing.
2. You are still gonna die.
3. One guy can and will still do incursions with 10 acc.
4. Whoever used multi for mining or pvp anyways? I mean really?
5. Plex prices? Seriously? That's not changing anytime soon either.

Yeah, who ever heard of anyone PVPing or mining with multi on? Pffft. Can't be done I tell you!!! NOBODY does that!!! Big smileBig smileBig smile

Seriously my friend?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Apo Lamperouge
#674 - 2014-11-25 20:29:47 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Apo Lamperouge wrote:
Jvpiter wrote:
Angus McRothimay wrote:
However, using an exploit to cover the cost of subscription isn't really subscribing, If no one spent real money on the game there would be no game to play.



The cost of subscription is always paid with real money. There may simply be less buyers of PLEX but we don't have enough information to make a definitive conclusion.



How do you figure? If you are mining 2b a day with these 25+ miners, and a plex is/was say 850m, lets do the math

$15 x 25 = $375 per month.

However, if you are mining say 2b a day, for only 20 days a month out of 30, then your 2b x 20d = 40b

850,000,000 x 25 accounts = 21.25b

That still leaves you with a net profit of 18.75b/month isk.

And you tell me that you are PAYING to play? Are you sh!tting me?

Come on. What moron who profits 18b a month actually BUYS their game time. I may have been born during the day, but it wasn't yesterday.

I average about 10 bil/mo profit with three accounts and pay for them. That being said, you totally missed his point, he didn't say he pays for them he said they are paid with real money.



Yeah 3 accounts. That's manageable for someon either with or without a job.

But 50 accounts? Nobody in their right mind actually puts that on their grandmas credit card each month.

Sometimes a knife right through your heart is exactly what you need.
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#675 - 2014-11-25 20:31:32 UTC
rip my 18 one cent ganking accounts

RIP Richard A. Butt
KeeperRus
Doomheim
#676 - 2014-11-25 20:34:50 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
KeeperRus wrote:
FunGu Arsten wrote:
Xython wrote:
corebloodbrothers wrote:
Also the dude iskboxing 20 mining accounts wasnt going to use those too activly use those to make eve a more exciting place, rather then his own gain.


"The dude" is up to over 80, actually, according ot the iskboxer dev.


funny thing is... he doesn't actualy need "broadcasting"/"automation functions".. and i hope he keeps mining them ice :D

That is what I have been trying to say... This so called nerf to ISboxer does nothing. Why? Because a very very small percentage that used ISboxer multi broadcast while the majority used it with single.

So this hoopla that woot GJ CCP does nothing. They will still play, still kill you and in more numbers than 10 =)

Props to the guy who ran 30 accounts in pvp cause I have seen him do a 30 man fleet better than most of the 30 man fleets in eve.

Again lets recap:

1. Changes nothing.
2. You are still gonna die.
3. One guy can and will still do incursions with 10 acc.
4. Whoever used multi for mining or pvp anyways? I mean really?
5. Plex prices? Seriously? That's not changing anytime soon either.

Yeah, who ever heard of anyone PVPing or mining with multi on? Pffft. Can't be done I tell you!!! NOBODY does that!!! Big smileBig smileBig smile



Yes and No. What CCP should have done was ban it entirely. You forget that most use DX nothing and not multi. DX nothing takes more prep work but once you have it set right it runs circles around multi.

So, maybe some do but on the high side most don't. Plain and simple which is why I said it to begin with. Hop on over there and take a look un the eve side. Will tell you exactly how much DX nothing is used over the multi.

Seriously my friend?
Please Turn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#677 - 2014-11-25 20:34:59 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Astroyka wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Astroyka wrote:
I think this is great news for EvE as a whole. I really don't think the unsubs will hit CCP that hard since most of the multiboxers were probably "paying" for their accounts with PLEX anyway.

Stop being dumb. It irritates me the amount of people here who still seem to have no clue what PLEX does or how it works.


Enlighten me, great one.

Here's a hint:
PLEX does not take subscription money away from CCP.


Well, it does and it doesn't. There is more than one angle from which one should look at this topic. At a first glance, the common approach - "somebody has to pay for that PLEX with real money(at a higher price than the subscription price)" indicates that it doesn't, hence CCP shouldn't care. In this case, Astroyka is wrong, and this move will hurt CCP(short term) more than he realizes.

However, as most things in life, everything is a matter of balance. As I see it, PLEX'ing the accounts(I'm speaking about using a PLEX for subscription) is getting out of hands right now. Is just so easy for too many people(they can all do it simultaneously) to AFK "print" ISK by ratting(Ishtar, Dominix - looking at you right now), to AFK gather resources and so on. Broadcasting commands were(are) a big factor in allowing this type of "game play"(not the only factor, that's for sure).

What most people don't put into this equation is the loss in "potential" long term subscribers due to newbies quitting once they start noticing all the 20+ nerds accounts(which are so common these days) floating around against whom they feel like having zero chances of competing(and who could blame them).

Last thought, Eve should be about playing Eve for the sake of Eve not for the sake of PLEX'ing your account(s) and maybe making some money out of it(RMT ). All I can say about this change is that I'm glad they finally push it through and that I'm a little sad it took them so long to do it(let's hope I'm not speaking too soon and they won't go back on their word(again)).

Join TheTuskers, travel to exotic distant lands, meet exciting unusual people and ... kill them!
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#678 - 2014-11-25 20:35:16 UTC  |  Edited by: KC Kamikaze
Some of you sound like jealous children who cheer in the face of the kid with the better toy who just had it taken away.

I do some isboxing ... and i'm perfectly fine with unchecking the broadcast button and work towards a more effective dashboard view. Half the time broadcasts just screwed things up for me one way or another because i use a mixed fleet.

Those of you who think isboxer fleets are invincible and think that these changes are going to save EVE have your own separate set of delusions about this game.

https://zkillboard.com/character/218906093/ - dead multiboxing protei ... props to this guy for bringing the fight... fun content that never would have existed without this guy and his personal fleet.

isboxer is way more than a broadcast all tool. those of you crying about having broadcasts taken away get clever.... a 20 man isboxer fleet will never be as good as a 20 man fleet of anything but BNI in any scenario but bombing. You've lost mining efficiency, bombers and tornado alpha ... deep down you know that's a positive change and the rest can be microed in other ways.
irion felpamy
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#679 - 2014-11-25 20:36:00 UTC
Cyrus Doul wrote:
I isbox 5 accounts and i do still pay for the game with CC, and have to buy plex to sell all the time to make isk, 6 years into this game and I'm still terrible

Also for the love of god people. when someone isboxes and gets enough to run 20 accounts. that IS 20 SUBS WORTH OF MONEY! its actually more as month to month is 15 dollars for a total of 300 a month. where plex is 20 dollars for a total of 400 a month. CCP makes more off isboxers then they do you.


This is the saddest thing I have ever heard I will assume its a troll just to cheer myself up.
Angry Ganker
Caprica 1
#680 - 2014-11-25 20:36:49 UTC
So is this a win for CODE as GoonTards Highsec gank enforcers whose only purpose is not carebear re education but in fact to make more ISK for Goontards in nullsec.

OR

Is this a CCP cracking down on the GoonTards and CODE with their isBoxed gank fleets in highsec? I have personally watched ganks with a GoonTard using 21 T2 cats ganking a freighter in HighSec (alt). Highsec and CODE is about the ISK pure and simple. Nothing to do with carebears, thats just a smoke screen to their greed.

I applaud you CCP! Good Decision.