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Keyboard Flight Controls

First post
Author
Soden Rah
Eve Navy
#81 - 2014-11-17 23:28:17 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Soden Rah wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Manual flight controls are now enabled on Singularity.

Can I do rolls / flips?
No, since EVE physics are not like a dogfighting game and likely never will be. There is an obvious up and down in space and your ship cannot turn upside down.


.
However as it is currently implemented in the game if I dive under the asteroid and then pull up to go around and over it and pass
back over the top, I will reach the point where I am pointing strait up and then continue that way.
I then have to perform some weird and kak-handed manoeuvre to rotate the ship so I can then bring the nose down in
the direction I want to go.

You could [if you feel it necessary] still enforce a [this way is up] by having the ship model perform a roll if the manoeuvre it is performing puts it upside-down. If you have this happen [and match it with the follow camera] AFTER the completion of current manoeuvring [signalled by the release of the "keyboard Flight Controls" then you avoid the problem of the keys changing the command they are giving mid manoeuvre.


So: I hold "Up" until my ship pitches through 180 degrees. I would now be upside down, but for the graphics engine rolling my ship right side up. Now, although I'm still holding "up" my ship is shown pitching down relative to the ship model. and the camera view. I get that. BUT:

What happens if, at that time and while still holding "Up", I press "left"? Does my ship go left? Or, as Ive pitched through 180 degrees, do I go right?


This is a bit hard to explain without visuals, but I'll give it my best shot....

The controls [in my proposed scheme] are ALWAYS tied to the ship as their reference point.
So they would work more like an aircraft control column.
If you are upside down and press the 'up key' then your ship will pitch 'down' from the reference orientation of the grid.
If you are upside down and press 'left' the the ship will turn 'right' in the reference frame of the grid.

To avoid this being confusing, I was working on the assumption that anyone seriously piloting their ship would be
using a follow cam view, which would be locked to the orientation of the ship. [If you're zoomed right out and flying 'normally' you're probably not trying to execute complicated manoeuvres like this anyway]

In that view the ship is ALWAYS right way up [RWU], regardless of it's orientation with respect to the grid.

Thus in that view up always means up, and left always means left.

Then, to maintain CCP's 'ships 'must-always-end-up-right-way-up' [MAEURWU] Bear rule, if the ship is upside-down AND
the pilot releases ALL flight command keys*, then the ship will perform a roll to RWU. [I don't think this is necessary, I'm fine with upside-down ships]

*Possibly with a timer aspect, like 1.5 seconds after last command, timer reset in the event of new commands coming in the window.

For situations where the roll is incomplete I when the pilot restarts making flight commands I would bring the roll to a stop and continue accepting commands from the ships current orientation. But this may not be the best solution to these edge cases, and play testing would be required to see what the best solution is.

Basically this is my suggestion for a workable mechanism that allows for full 360 degree manoeuvring abilities while ships still MAEURWU. I don't claim this to be the only, or possibly even best solution. But I offer it as refutation of the idea that maintaining ships generally right side up is incompatible with allowing manoeuvres like loops.
Anton Menges Saddat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2014-11-18 00:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Anton Menges Saddat
I think this is a promising start!

Things I'd like to see:

1.) addition of a chase cam mode, not necessarily fixed behind the ship directly, but adjustable and lockable to the orientation if your ship, so if you chose to have it at a angle that shows the top right of your ship that the camera would remain fixed to your ship at this angle when you move

2.) addition of facing direction/vector graphics for zoomed out ships (yours and others) in tactical view.

3.) addition of the ability to pitch/yaw and do barrel rolls, just for cosmetics and easier maneuvering

4.) full joystick/hotas support w/ speed mappable to thruster, etc. and be able to scroll overview and lock targets using joystick hat/buttons


these things would make it a lot more awesome imo

#2 in particular would be helpful for both WASD piloting and manual double click in space piloting, so i would especially like this

OH and one more suggestion!

add a toggle option that highlights where you double click in space or shows a vector. this would make manual piloting with the double click method a lot easier and intuitive.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#83 - 2014-11-18 01:31:15 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Can I do rolls / flips?
No, since EVE physics are not like a dogfighting game and likely never will be. There is an obvious up and down in space and your ship cannot turn upside down.

Isn't that just a graphical client side thing? I mean if you simply roll your ship model along the axis it is moving nothing changes for the velocity vector. Then you simply adjust the steering vectors of the keys with it. You can get the normal steering vectors for the simulation from the angle the ship is rolled.

I seriously don't see why something would change for the simulation at all. You will still not be able to fly a loop, but that has nothing to do with rolling the ship.

Then maybe just roll it back to normal position if you click somewhere.
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#84 - 2014-11-18 03:27:05 UTC
I tried key-flying on SiSi: it was mildly entertaining but doesn't seem very useful. Because of the way the game handles "physics," you don't really have full control of the ship (it won't pass through vertical) and the orientation of the ship and other graphical elements (engine trails!) on screen are extremely poor indicators for what the ship is actually doing. Basically it's pretty useless, but it was kind of fun toying with it for a few minutes. I could see myself potentially using it to fly in circles when I'm really bored, or something... like an in-space version of ship-spinning. Although actually, when I really think about it, that will never happen since the first thing I'll do when it hits TQ will be to make sure those inputs are un-bound to prevent accidental activation during an actual fight. Oh well.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#85 - 2014-11-18 09:29:57 UTC
Alexa Coates wrote:
I kinda feel like the manual flight characteristics are better on big ships than they used to be. such as my archon. I can whip it around several seconds faster than if i double clicked in space.


That purely inertia. If in Eve you are not going to spend energy to also gain velocity (double-clicking to do 90 degre turn) you will expend all of the energy to turning instead of turning + acceleration.

Double-clicking in space is equal to "turn + increase speed" on the keybinds.
marVLs
#86 - 2014-11-18 12:15:35 UTC
Won't be better if turning point of ship be at his start not in center? I think this could help
bandwidth
Reveka.
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#87 - 2014-11-19 01:23:00 UTC
I don't know what you guys (ccp) are going to do about the control singularity, but I make a point of avoiding it and it seems like anyone who doesn't is having problems. I can't suggest a solution, because there isn't an easy one. Good luck. I don't mind the inability to loop, but any maneuvering that involves going 'up' or 'down' is already a big pain in the ass and it really spoils the whole experience.

At the very least we need some kind of UI elements active when WASD is being used. it'd be nice if there was a icon projected at infinity from our velocity, it would make manually aligning possible.

also, setting up controls to move thrust towards an orthogonal (apparently in order to maximize turn rate) has high-lighted just how simplistic the normal controls really are. it now seems like you just find the direction a player has double clicked, start pushing in that direction, and then let the magic-space-drag take care of the error.

have you guys considered changing the approach/double click behavior to use WASD-like turns?

oh yeah, and PLEASE ALLOW FOR DIAGONAL CONTROL INPUT. (ie: be able to handle W+A inputs)
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
#88 - 2014-11-19 01:43:12 UTC
Saberlily Whyteshadow wrote:
Flight controls at a bare minimum needs:
Pitch Up
Pitch Down
Yaw Left
Yaw Right
Roll Left
Roll Right

Not just pitch up, pitch down, turn left, turn right...

Ship needs to stop wanting to level out in straight flight.

Still its pretty fun, better than nothing. Big smile


Also needs a lock on the ship view so you can fly your ship while panning around - that way you can use the WASD to fly, your ship should be locked in position in the view and then a mouse or KB panning key so you can look around... otherwise it's not really useful imho.
Bruce Nollan
Index Bio Systems
#89 - 2014-11-19 08:34:15 UTC
Still havent seen a solution to those of use who cant seem to get this to work. What's the deal? What skills do we need to attempt this magical feat????
Bruce Nollan
Index Bio Systems
#90 - 2014-11-19 08:44:39 UTC
Still havent seen a solution to those of use who cant seem to get this to work. What's the deal? What skills do we need to attempt this magical feat????

EDIT:
Found the CORRECT controls in the navigation tab not the movement tab. Might have missed that somewhere. Cary on.
Theon Severasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-11-19 11:15:30 UTC
Everyone seems to be forgetting that EVE is really a submarine game.


When a submarine can do a barrel roll or a flip, that's when they should worry about adding those controls in.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#92 - 2014-11-19 13:35:59 UTC
bandwidth wrote:
oh yeah, and PLEASE ALLOW FOR DIAGONAL CONTROL INPUT. (ie: be able to handle W+A inputs)


This is a bug, Singularity is being updated with a fix for this today.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#93 - 2014-11-19 13:44:08 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
bandwidth wrote:
oh yeah, and PLEASE ALLOW FOR DIAGONAL CONTROL INPUT. (ie: be able to handle W+A inputs)


This is a bug, Singularity is being updated with a fix for this today.

Fix confirmed on Sisi.
Scorpion Navy issue had the undock no vector issue(model not pointing in the right direction) on second undock today.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#94 - 2014-11-19 14:54:47 UTC
Theon Severasse wrote:
Everyone seems to be forgetting that EVE is really a submarine game.


When a submarine can do a barrel roll or a flip, that's when they should worry about adding those controls in.

Submarines can do barrel rolls. It's normally something they try and avoid. But occasionally they do too tight a turn and have something they call a "snap roll". (Actually I don't know if a snap roll can result in a complete 360 degree roll, but it may be possible).

However, there is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcc6UTlEDlw

Look at minute 1:30.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Nig C
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-11-19 15:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Nig C
Amazing,

just give me an Immelmann-Turn and I will bring an Interbus Shuttle Aerobatic Team into being!

thx, Nig
Azusa Asara
Asara Corporation
#96 - 2014-11-19 17:41:45 UTC
The mapped WASD Keys did not work for movement, also, you have the default keys double mapped to "Align to", "Dock" ect. I unassigned these, WASD still did not work.

I reassigned the keys to the arrow Keys, they didn't work either.

Finally I tried the Numpad Arrow keys with Numlock "off" and it worked.


Don't know what the issue is, but I would really like this to work with my own assigned keys, I am not left handed so having one hand on my mouse and another on the numpad is quite awkward!
Cretten
Joat Industries
#97 - 2014-11-19 17:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Cretten
very very cool

but please we need the rest bank and roll...... yaw and so on


Nice work guys
Daniel Jackson
Universal Exos
#98 - 2014-11-19 17:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Jackson
my down controls when u asked everyone to to dive down it kept moving my ship back the opposite direction i was going like i was movign tords the people but it made me mobre backwords insted so faced my ship tords the oppasit direction



actualy they arnt really doing anything at all..


during mass test fight
Rockstede
Thirtyplus
Goonswarm Federation
#99 - 2014-11-19 17:44:16 UTC
Fantastic, really a lot of fun being able to pilot yourself out of bouncy situations :)
Vyl Vit
#100 - 2014-11-19 17:45:08 UTC
OMG! I'll never be the same. I did a barrel roll!
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