Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is NOT about removing the ability to use Local Chat to see who is present in the same system, as we currently do.

This is about putting local chat into the game for it's other aspects, communications.

I am suggesting that we create link type jamming modules.

These would require the usual ships in order to fit, such as BCs or strategic cruisers with the right subsystems, etc.

The local channel itself, as well as any EVE channel, could be affected.

I suggest three links, A Tech 1 followed by two Tech 2 items.

For the T1 version:
Information Warfare Link - Partial Communication Disruption
Range: System-wide
This link has the unusual feature of exclusively affecting ships NOT inside the normal fleet structure.
All chat channel transmissions which are not between ships linked by dedicated fleet connections are blocked.
Due to the brute force nature of this effect, friendly communications are also affected in the same manner.

For the T2 version:
Information Warfare Link - Full Bandwidth Communication Disruption
Range: System-wide
This link has the unusual feature of exclusively affecting ALL ships.
All chat channel transmissions are blocked, with the exception of ships in fleet with the active presence of a secured communications bridge.
Due to the brute force nature of this effect, friendly communications are also affected in the same manner.

For the T2 version:
Information Warfare Link - Secured Communication Bridge
This link is intended to specifically override the effects of the disruption links, and allow full communication ability for fleet members.
Whether the source of the disruption is friendly or hostile, the bridge creates a bypass that restores full communications.

The chat channels are used in different ways by different players.

Some players rely on it quite heavily, by necessity.
As an example, intel channels in null cannot assume that all assets are logged into the same voice coms, so warnings often need to be copied and pasted into intel channels.
Some groups rely on web pages to parse this data, by links.

Will players who go to the extra effort, (using out of game voice coms), be able to ignore this?
If they are only concerned about reaching players using their comms system.

That is ignoring some truly significant details.

Consider instead, how exactly this can interfere with non-PvP interests.

The moment an untargeted effect hits a ship that is not under a war-dec, it is considered an attack.

It doesn't matter if it is a smart bomb, or something like this.

Anyone trying to use this outside of null would risk a security standing loss.
Anyone affecting a neutral player in high sec would find Concord throwing them a party.

While I am sure the devs might decide it would be balanced to use something like this in high sec, I seriously doubt it.

Although, I must admit, being able to stop the Jita spam for even a few moments would be tempting.

ROFL

Brilliantly put, but I think we are both clever enough to know EVE is a pvp game as a foundation, with the other aspects built with the understanding of this base detail.

But just a few posts above, you were pointing out:


So, are you saying the chat channels sacred ground, or trivial?

Either way it is a secondary detail.
Chat already came to pvp, according to many, by revealing who is present in which system.
Now, PvP could come to chat too.

Social chat is something less common for local chat itself, at least in the null I am familiar with.

What is common, is intel channels monitored by those not involved enough to bother with voice coms.
And not just monitored, but contributed to by the same group who often enough find themselves in remote systems.

Systems where movement of large groups can become known, but not shared except by those intel channels.

Let's be clear, we are not talking about newbie areas, or trade hubs here. High sec itself is unlikely to be affected.

But the potential that a single hostile in a null system, can silence the warnings when their fleet marches through... that is real.

Eh?

I am not focused on local chat, that is simply the default which many in null have up for the simple purpose of system population awareness.

Of the post in question, local was mentioned once, while intel channels were referred to four times. Three of those four naming the intel channel specifically.

Errr, congrats on living in the part of null where they have cocktail parties in local, rather than use it to see who just entered?

I rather considered it obvious that intel was the primary thrust of this, I see now that others can view it from other perspectives.

And it has been rejected by myself, that OOG services will COMPLETELY replace intel channels.
Perhaps you mean to suggest that the players involved in a fleet, or a PvP active operation, will all be on a voice comm.
Even if I were to accept this, the fact remains that a large number of non-PvP assets will too often not be in the same channel room, assuming they were to be using voice at all.

I don't know how your alliance has your intel channels set up, but from my own experience, enough assets fail to use voice so that actual intel chat channels need to exist.


This question assumes that I accept these services as the only things affected, which I do not.

Claiming that these social aspects are the exclusively affected channels is a straw man argument.
It suggests that all null groups are organized to the point where everyone is on voice comms reliably, and in addition that a warning in one channel will be relayed in a timely manner to the right channel.

Such ideal conditions only exist in the imagination, sadly.

LOL

A)
You mean OOG IM chat servers?
I have seen those too, but you can't build a serious case against in game chat channels using these.
Half the time I recall these being used to alert players who were offline, that something had happened in game requiring a response.

B)
Of course they will adapt. Emergent play is the result of this, and will evolve to use this jamming as a tactic, as much as how players can defend against it.

I appreciate your opinion, but your suggestion that chat channels are already obsolete in game, well, I disagree.

The bit about my assuming players are non-reactive potted plants who won't adapt.
Perhaps you made this assumption instead of me, when you suggested that someone would jam a system that had players using social channels.
Why exactly wouldn't the inconvenienced players simply blow up the problem, turn it off, or leave?
You made a point that they would not have any PvP setback from this, so their ability to deal with the issue should have no problem.

If this would finally shutdown the Jita scammers, count me in...

You make a good, if flawed, argument.

I will point out this flaw, as you have made a straw man argument in doing so.
You have lumped all null sec players into either one of two groups:
1. Advanced player already using effective third party (OOG) comms.
2. Player who is too far from help by any means, making their ability to communicate already compromised.

Now, I could see how MOST players active in a current PvP event would be likely to use third party comms.
I know from experience that this can be complicated, but usually works quite well to coordinate large fleet efforts all the way down to smaller roams.

But, and I must point out that this following detail cannot be effectively disproven, not all players in null fit into these two groups, even if they are what most would consider as advanced.

3. Not directly active in a group effort, (PvP or otherwise) possibly not intending to participate in one during their current session.

We can't always find our friends online, just because we managed to gather the time for a play session.
In many cases, if we have odd hours, or simply inconsistent ones, we don't always have a regular group we associate with for online activities.

Now, add into this the players who are making an effort to PvE, and aren't going to drop everything to join a roam or fleet.
(What? Some players do this in null? Rumors that everyone uses high sec alts for ISK grinding are false, I assure you)
These players often avoid PvE grinds during expected fleet ops, so they aren't bothered by pressure to join them.

Does that mean intel channels are all dead?
NO.
Many active in non-PvP actions use them.
They also know the fastest way to relay time sensitive intel is a chat channel dedicated to intel, because by the time they jump onto their voice client to warn about a speed roam heading in, it is 4 systems away and getting kill mails by the time anyone can relay to those needing to react.

If players want to make the extra effort to use third party OOG comms, great. They deserve to be rewarded by being immune to the effective cut-off this idea offers.