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Phoebe: A new kind of exploration site

First post
Author
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2014-11-05 12:23:27 UTC
Michal Jita wrote:


What about where are they going to be spawning?
Being sleeper based majority of these should spawn in wormholes.

The SiSi list was showing them to be available everywhere in Kspace effectively nerfing WHs again.


The backstory for these sites is Sleeper activity in k-space, Sleepers have been collecting stuff of interest from empire space and couldn't always be bothered to hoist it to their space, so they dumped them in these cloaked storage sites. So they will be in k-space only.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2014-11-05 12:26:44 UTC
Kata Amentis wrote:

I think the problem with this is that we're very used to the "fluffy" clouds just being back drop, or a harvestable resource. The clouds in the site look exactly like every other cloud.

Would it be possible to maybe animate them so the plasma cloud had active lightning arcing through it or plumes/waves of fire in the fire clouds: anything that might cause a "ooo that might cause me damage" reaction rather than "oh, more fluff". The edges of the clouds are also quite hard to see, they fade out before the "edge" so you can take damage from what looks to be empty space.

When you get too close to the plasma chamber wreckage there is an explosion, a blast wave, all very obvious "hazards" the clouds are deceptive (can we shoot the chambers to trigger them? might try that next time).


There are no resources being dedicated to the clouds right now, the issue with them is known and hopefully we can get some art support to adjust them later on. Using the clouds is tricky, as none of them are perfectly spherical, which is how the damage is applied. The fire cloud and the plasma cloud are two of the very few clouds that come closest, but they're not perfectly spherical.
Michal Jita
Lords Of The Universe
#43 - 2014-11-05 12:28:17 UTC
Again more new content for Kspace, just recently they got more fun with burner missions, now going to get even more and only consolidation price for WHs is exactly the same data and relic sites as Kspace already always had.

Yep, much love for wormhole community coming from CCP.
Gosti Kahanid
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#44 - 2014-11-05 12:44:01 UTC
Michal Jita wrote:
What about where are they going to be spawning?
Being sleeper based majority of these should spawn in wormholes.

The SiSi list was showing them to be available everywhere in Kspace effectively nerfing WHs again.

CCP Paradox wrote:
And to answer the question on WH stuff. I will pose the questions tomorrow to SoniClover. This is just the first site of its kind however...
Samantha Calderon
Heavenly Forge
#45 - 2014-11-05 13:48:48 UTC
Kata Amentis wrote:
fyi

[quote]
This acceleration gate is not configured to handle your Stratios.
It handles:
Assault Frigate
Covert Ops
Expedition Frigate
Electronic Attack Ship
Frigate
Interceptor
Rookie ship
Prototype Exploration Ship
Shuttle


Prototype Exploration Ship? Is that the Echelon, or a new kind of frigates?

Wherever I May Roam: Blog sobre EVE Online en castellano!

CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#46 - 2014-11-05 13:51:51 UTC
Samantha Calderon wrote:


Prototype Exploration Ship? Is that the Echelon, or a new kind of frigates?


It's the Zephyr.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#47 - 2014-11-05 14:32:04 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Kata Amentis wrote:

I think the problem with this is that we're very used to the "fluffy" clouds just being back drop, or a harvestable resource. The clouds in the site look exactly like every other cloud.

Would it be possible to maybe animate them so the plasma cloud had active lightning arcing through it or plumes/waves of fire in the fire clouds: anything that might cause a "ooo that might cause me damage" reaction rather than "oh, more fluff". The edges of the clouds are also quite hard to see, they fade out before the "edge" so you can take damage from what looks to be empty space.

When you get too close to the plasma chamber wreckage there is an explosion, a blast wave, all very obvious "hazards" the clouds are deceptive (can we shoot the chambers to trigger them? might try that next time).


There are no resources being dedicated to the clouds right now, the issue with them is known and hopefully we can get some art support to adjust them later on. Using the clouds is tricky, as none of them are perfectly spherical, which is how the damage is applied. The fire cloud and the plasma cloud are two of the very few clouds that come closest, but they're not perfectly spherical.


Using the same art assets that people are used to being harmless to indicate a threat now is pretty poor design IMO. I wouldn't ship it like that.

Just Sayin' ™

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#48 - 2014-11-05 14:34:35 UTC
Quote:
Acceleration gate masked as wormhole made me rofl. Seriously, thats kind of lame. ... Dissapointed.

Same here. I hope this is just some sort of technical placeholder for now.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-11-05 16:35:02 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
fixes

What about fixing the cans that are accessed using a Relic Analyzer to use a Data Analyzer?
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2014-11-05 17:00:05 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
fixes

What about fixing the cans that are accessed using a Relic Analyzer to use a Data Analyzer?


We're contemplating that these sites would require both hacking and archaeology to go through.
Fifth Blade
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#51 - 2014-11-05 17:55:37 UTC
Billy Hix wrote:
Burneddi wrote:

Can you imagine the wormholer tears if those actually took you to an actual wormhole system where you'd find the follow-up for the site?


Your telling me random PVE fit ships getting teleported into a WH in my chain or even better into my home system wouldn't be the greatest change CCP have ever made???? Your wrong.

If Bob deems it to be, it will be.

I realise this is not directly related to the specific sites added but as an active explorer I have to say this would be fantastic. Giving people great rewards to take an escalation into w-space would be great. A lot of fun for both explorers and w-space dwellers alike. What a great way that could be to introduce newbies to w-space too. Assuming you had some easy sites with a chance to escalate to C1-2 wormholes, too.

Please do this.
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#52 - 2014-11-05 18:00:17 UTC
Disclaimer: I have yet to do these sites.

I like the premise of these sites thus far. Good feedback on there development. I wish to add a couple ideas for the next iteration to expand the choices players can make (for fitting and cargo space and time and difficulty of game play).

Mix of data and relic cans good. Also include materials to be salvaged.

Environmental hazards very good. Art department inclusion would be great but lets expand it a bit shall we? I like the idea of different cloud effects from benign to OMG!!!!!! Also make (some) of them harvestable (gas cloud harvester). Randomly place cans in the clouds. Now choose... tank the cloud or have the required skill and time to harvest the cloud to access the can and hack it.

You now have a cargo hold full of gas. Is it worth anything? Sell it for manufacturing or jettison it.

An experienced explorer will learn what needs to be done to disarm site defenses. Allow for a random factor to either allow a hack to fail with an exploding can OR spawning a (several) defense drones. These should also be damaged by the environment (clouds). Now the choices for the explorer are, fight the drone(s) or lead them into the damaging environment.

I like the idea of ship sig helping to determine level of damage inflicted on the ship. This also allows the choice of fitting for speed (mid and low slots), fitting to sig radius, fitting for tank, fitting for offense or, at the expense or cargo space, bring a mobile depot and modules for all contingencies.

Allow players that have accessed the second (third, fourth etc rooms) the ability to BM them and return directly. The explorer should have some advantages. Maybe allow prior rooms to disappear requiring the prey to break out the combat probes.

Soniclover, you guys have just opened the gates to new exploration content that can allows a huge amount of iteration. True, some mechanics might need changing but these would be changes that could be applied to other PvE content. Bottom line, this is a great start. Thanks.

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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#53 - 2014-11-05 18:09:57 UTC
I didn't see it mentioned here yet....but how hard will this site be to complete with the lowest graphics settings? ( ie...the settings that don't show clouds and other stuff that likes to melt cards...) Face it CCP, not everyone enjoys their PC's melting all the time...
PIRJANIN
Space Knights Templar
Jita Holding Inc.
#54 - 2014-11-05 19:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: PIRJANIN
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Thanks for the feedback so far. We're making adjustments to the small site as we speak, these should be out in Sisi tomorrow. Some of the things we're adjusting:
- Allowing MWDs
- Disallowing warping directly into deadspace
- Restricting site to frigate-sized ships only - the small site is aimed at that ship size, the medium and large will allow bigger ships. This is necessary because environmental damage cannot be scaled based on player ship, so we'd either had to choose between making the site completely lethal for small ships or insignificant for larger ships if we allowed any ship in there.
- The name of the site is changing to Limited Sleeper Cache
- Adjusting a few timers and damage for balance
- Editing a few message texts for clarity
- Adjusting the effect of failing a bit
- A few cosmetic touch-ups on the site.
- Adjusting the loot drops a little bit

We're aiming to get this out early next week. Expect a dev blog around the same time.

Thanks again for all your feedback!

Edit: Also, the no message stuff is do to with a pickle issue on Sisi, should be ok tomorrow.



excuse me, I am a little bit confused, will you add sites only for frigs? I am running (yes, no kidding) sites in NESTOR battleship, will I be able do to em in it? Or you gonna add 3 types of sites? small, medium and large? Plz find solution for big ships)
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#55 - 2014-11-05 20:02:28 UTC
PIRJANIN wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Thanks for the feedback so far. We're making adjustments to the small site as we speak, these should be out in Sisi tomorrow. Some of the things we're adjusting:
- Allowing MWDs
- Disallowing warping directly into deadspace
- Restricting site to frigate-sized ships only - the small site is aimed at that ship size, the medium and large will allow bigger ships. This is necessary because environmental damage cannot be scaled based on player ship, so we'd either had to choose between making the site completely lethal for small ships or insignificant for larger ships if we allowed any ship in there.
- The name of the site is changing to Limited Sleeper Cache
- Adjusting a few timers and damage for balance
- Editing a few message texts for clarity
- Adjusting the effect of failing a bit
- A few cosmetic touch-ups on the site.
- Adjusting the loot drops a little bit

We're aiming to get this out early next week. Expect a dev blog around the same time.

Thanks again for all your feedback!

Edit: Also, the no message stuff is do to with a pickle issue on Sisi, should be ok tomorrow.



excuse me, I am a little bit confused, will you add sites only for frigs? I am running (yes, no kidding) sites in NESTOR battleship, will I be able do to em in it? Or you gonna add 3 types of sites? small, medium and large? Plz find solution for big ships)


Damn. Respect man.

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2014-11-05 22:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Is the site location listing still valid, I am very eager to try out these sites so I can provide proper feedback.

But for now what I saw on YouTube for these was very good.

Edit: After DT I got on and did one of the sites, there was no loot in any of the containers so i cannot comment on that part.

I really like the idea of Hackable Locked Acceleration Gates,. +1 on that would like to see more of this kind of thing.
Once inside the site I saw a visiualy pleasing site with a lot of content and fluff, a very different experience than the barren data and relic sites on TQ.
The container difficulity was an acceptable level, though im not sure about the unlimited(?) hacking attempts on some of the cans.
The security beacon functioned different than expected, I was expecting it to summon sleepers to defend the cache instead i was greeted with an explosion that sent my Astero into 28% hull from about 50% shields [Amarr Frigate 4, Adaptive Nano Plating, Damage Control II]. While this is not necessaraly a bad thing it can make doing the frigate sites in anything less than an Astero extremely difficuly if not impossible given the general lack of HP covert ops frigates have.

I would like to say these are going to be extremely fun sites and should be closer to the model, though not necessaraly as difficult, for future exploration sites rather than simply a high tier site.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Samantha Calderon
Heavenly Forge
#57 - 2014-11-05 22:46:56 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Samantha Calderon wrote:


Prototype Exploration Ship? Is that the Echelon, or a new kind of frigates?


It's the Zephyr.


Oh, ok. And me getting all excited by the posibility of a new type of exploration ship. Sad

Wherever I May Roam: Blog sobre EVE Online en castellano!

Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2014-11-06 00:11:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
CCP SoniClover wrote:
We're contemplating that these sites would require both hacking and archaeology to go through.


I'm fine with this - it raises the SP bar to properly run these sites, and most explorers will probably train to Archaeology 5 and Hacking 5 - that's not a huge SP requirement, considering there are currently no secondary skills. They will still need very good the Astrometrics skills, and to survive some of the hazards you'll also need to train a decent tank and core skills. So that's a decently high progression of skills to be able to run these properly.

I just want to make sure that these aren't confused with Data/Relic sites, and that it's clear that it is a completely new kind of exploration site. This was mentioned in the OP but everyone was referring to these as "new Data sites".

Looking forward to a lot more iteration with these! Hopefully the puzzles and environmental hazards can be randomly generated so they don't become predictable after a few runs.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#59 - 2014-11-06 09:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremiah Saken
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I really like the idea of Hackable Locked Acceleration Gates,. +1 on that would like to see more of this kind of thing.

What about failure on this? unlimited hacking attempts?
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The security beacon functioned different than expected, I was expecting it to summon sleepers to defend the cache instead i was greeted with an explosion that sent my Astero into 28% hull from about 50% shields [Amarr Frigate 4, Adaptive Nano Plating, Damage Control II]. While this is not necessaraly a bad thing it can make doing the frigate sites in anything less than an Astero extremely difficuly if not impossible given the general lack of HP covert ops frigates have.

Needs some tweaks i presume, it would be shame to do this in Astero only.

All this looks good but can we bookmark cans behind the "warp gate" and warp to them? Isn't it kinda too safe to be behind warp gate?

Ransu Asanari wrote:
Looking forward to a lot more iteration with these! Hopefully the puzzles and environmental hazards can be randomly generated so they don't become predictable after a few runs.

We could use random factor in all sites...
Edit:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I would like to say these are going to be extremely fun sites and should be closer to the model, though not necessaraly as difficult, for future exploration sites rather than simply a high tier site.

Part of me agree with this, sites looks much better with this mechanism but it would mean the sites are scaled with ship size because:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
- Restricting site to frigate-sized ships only - the small site is aimed at that ship size, the medium and large will allow bigger ships. This is necessary because environmental damage cannot be scaled based on player ship, so we'd either had to choose between making the site completely lethal for small ships or insignificant for larger ships if we allowed any ship in there.

...and it's not looks so good anymore. Basically you can choose what ship you want for explo now, with restriction on warp gates it would make long term runs not so fun. Hard to change ships with 30+jumps from your base.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

CCP Paradox
#60 - 2014-11-06 10:28:49 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Is the site location listing still valid, I am very eager to try out these sites so I can provide proper feedback.


Will update with a list from today.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician