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Summit Day 3 Quick Report

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thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2011-12-13 15:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: thoth rothschild
Is there any solid idea and plan on how to get rid of the 2001 list style, space control ui?

For most of you this might not look like a problem because you are used to all the lists and right clicking and thousands of different windows. New players get insta shocked, stunned and paralysed by the massive not intuitive controls which need to be handled to successfully control their own tiny space ship. Controling a helicopter might be easier.

It is the projection of information which is more than confusing. Most flight control information systems will try to get s much information as possible in a visual style. Decisions need to meade within seconds. Scrolling throught lists might take to long to keep someone alive.

Well might be hard to find new ideas but someone need to start and get the ball rolling.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-12-13 16:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2011-12-13 17:19:01 UTC
Yeah, I am pretty interested to find out more about the UI changes they plan to make. I remember way back that there was a supposed technical reason why customized and importable UIs weren't being allowed.. so has that changed? As far as the customizing we are going to see something other than scalability and color changes?

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2011-12-13 20:25:07 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

49 days and 1,337 posts later, still no CCP has commented on the WiS thread*, and apparently you didn't talked about the issue at the meeting neither... a deafening silence, isn't it? Roll

*here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=244597#post244597



Have you been paying attention? WiS rollout wasn't their finest hour. If you're trying to build a groundswell of players who think that space dollies should take precedence over fixing all the problems with the core gameplay, good luck to you but I'm not on your side on this one.


/signed

Incarna could be great (future-vision-like great). But what we got is not worth abandoning FiS. Fix EVERYTHING (or 80%) than work on some WiS stuff.
I guess CCP invested to much into it to abandon it completly. But this can wait if they give us nice FiS gameplay.

Nice write-up Vile. Thanks for your input.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#45 - 2011-12-13 20:29:41 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

49 days and 1,337 posts later, still no CCP has commented on the WiS thread*, and apparently you didn't talked about the issue at the meeting neither... a deafening silence, isn't it? Roll

*here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=244597#post244597



Have you been paying attention? WiS rollout wasn't their finest hour. If you're trying to build a groundswell of players who think that space dollies should take precedence over fixing all the problems with the core gameplay, good luck to you but I'm not on your side on this one.


Precedence not. But neither become the next bloody feature to be abandoned for years after being released in a broken status.Evil

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-12-13 20:41:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

49 days and 1,337 posts later, still no CCP has commented on the WiS thread*, and apparently you didn't talked about the issue at the meeting neither... a deafening silence, isn't it? Roll

*here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=244597#post244597



Have you been paying attention? WiS rollout wasn't their finest hour. If you're trying to build a groundswell of players who think that space dollies should take precedence over fixing all the problems with the core gameplay, good luck to you but I'm not on your side on this one.


Precedence not. But neither become the next bloody feature to be abandoned for years after being released in a broken status.Evil


True. Its little ironic to talk about fixing broken and abandoned stuff and openly negating newly introduced broken stuff :D

But truth to be told, what we have now is not a feature even. Its a promise of a feature we could have.

I'm sure You've all heard about Pareto-Lorenz-something Rule of 80%-20%?
It takes 20% of time/resources to acomplish 80% of any goal and another 80% ot time to get the last 20%. Its just one of those cosmic rules that work to some degree in any part of life.

Too put it in eve situation - it would took a loooooots of time and money and resources and unsubbed-bitter-vets to finally deliver cool WiS.
While at the same time it took just few months to deliver dozens of life changing fixes that made all eve players weep with joy like 5year old getting a lollipop.

So with Pareto rule in mind, You go where least effort is required to gain most effect (20%) tahn You go with harder stuff to get the next 10% (50% of effort gets you 90% of effect) and than You got with huge-workload stuff to get that last 10%.

Not the other way around.

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2011-12-14 08:50:31 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
Too put it in eve situation - it would took a loooooots of time and money and resources and unsubbed-bitter-vets to finally deliver cool WiS.
While at the same time it took just few months to deliver dozens of life changing fixes that made all eve players weep with joy like 5year old getting a lollipop.

To be fair, the main reason why I at least got such a surge of hope over the last expansion was that it gave me a glimmer of hope that maybe, just maybe, CCP had learned their lesson and changed the way they do things for the better.

The reports from Trebor and Vile rat seems to indicate that this is indeed a lasting change, but I'm waiting for their 6 month long in development-expansion before I really start to praise the new jesus; nothing like the old jesus.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#48 - 2011-12-14 14:34:43 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

49 days and 1,337 posts later, still no CCP has commented on the WiS thread*, and apparently you didn't talked about the issue at the meeting neither... a deafening silence, isn't it? Roll

*here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=244597#post244597



Have you been paying attention? WiS rollout wasn't their finest hour. If you're trying to build a groundswell of players who think that space dollies should take precedence over fixing all the problems with the core gameplay, good luck to you but I'm not on your side on this one.


Precedence not. But neither become the next bloody feature to be abandoned for years after being released in a broken status.Evil


True. Its little ironic to talk about fixing broken and abandoned stuff and openly negating newly introduced broken stuff :D

But truth to be told, what we have now is not a feature even. Its a promise of a feature we could have.

I'm sure You've all heard about Pareto-Lorenz-something Rule of 80%-20%?
It takes 20% of time/resources to acomplish 80% of any goal and another 80% ot time to get the last 20%. Its just one of those cosmic rules that work to some degree in any part of life.

Too put it in eve situation - it would took a loooooots of time and money and resources and unsubbed-bitter-vets to finally deliver cool WiS.
While at the same time it took just few months to deliver dozens of life changing fixes that made all eve players weep with joy like 5year old getting a lollipop.

So with Pareto rule in mind, You go where least effort is required to gain most effect (20%) tahn You go with harder stuff to get the next 10% (50% of effort gets you 90% of effect) and than You got with huge-workload stuff to get that last 10%.

Not the other way around.


Well, My view on that law is:

80% of the effort is spent creating 20% of the feature (the engine and its integration to spreadsheets in space)

Then 20% of the effort is spent into creating 80% the feature: art and mechanics.

FAI, the NEx functionality is minimal, and yet the artwork ready to deliver along with it is huge... although it's being hold for no reason. And the bloody change that would make NEx pay for itself as intended is a 5-minute work of any junior developer: "Huh, change the availability status of items itn that table to "1", then remove a 0 from each price in that other table, then bring me some coffee".

That is not being done and we don't even are told why. We are CCP's and CSM's mushrooms, they are feeding us garbage and keep us in the dark.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#49 - 2011-12-14 15:14:45 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:

I'm sure You've all heard about Pareto-Lorenz-something Rule of 80%-20%?


I always KNEW there was some scientific evidence out there proving that Faction Warfare needs to be revamped ASAP, I just couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks for setting the record straight!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-12-14 15:19:49 UTC
I'd certainly put FW vastly over NEx on the list of things to be fixed.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
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