Warfare & Tactics

The MWD + Cloak technique is just an extension of basic game mechanics. When you cloak, all non-targeted modules you have active de-activate at the end of their current cycle. This is true of hardeners, Damage Controls, and an abundance of other modules in addition to MWDs. This fact, coupled with the fact that you enter warp when you reach 75% of your current max speed, means that ships fit with a Cloak and a MWD can enter warp quickly and safely, yet not with 100% certainty, with a bit of practice.

In order to eliminate this technique, CCP would need to change the underlying mechanics of how ships warp, or the underlying mechanics of how ships cloak. Or both. This seems like an awful lot of work to change something that CCP has gone out of their way to keep the way it is on at least one occasion.

This is emergent gameplay. It's what happens in a sandbox. Learn the counters or find different targets; it should not change.

Cloak and MWD only takes you so far, generally 2-5km. After that the transport speed usually drops down to around 90m/s.

Its very easy to find the transport if you have the numbers, equipment, position and patience.


Many times I have avoided gate camps while cloaked, with the campers chasing me only meters away :p



Ironically I use state of the art modules to escape gate camps. As does every other smart hauler.

You already have a mechanic that works very effectively against this "trick" in lowsec.

Smart bombing the out gates, but you find it easier coming to the forum to whine.

#nosympathy

>People in low and nullsec

Hey there, leave nullsec out of this, lictors are a thing, and anchorables. Even in lowsec, this is rarely that much of an issue. On a well set gatecamp I probably catch mwd/cloak haulers 75% of the time, in the rare events that people actually try it.

If your gatecamps are having trouble with t1 haulers, consider positioning a few frigates around the gate at the decloak range, more or less opposite each other. This way when something jumps in, it's rarely more than like 5000m from a decloak. You can even get covops haulers like this sometimes.

Another way to get t1 haulers is to deploy drones in position to decloak people. I've heard some people say this is an exploit, but as long as it's not enough to lag people, I don't think CCP considers it one. If you're worried about it, you can use active drones to decloak, such as sentries off an ishtar, which is definitely not an exploit.

A very good setup is ishtars with drones deployed at jump in range, with the ships off the gate, RSBing an instalocker and with a few dudes in frigs in decloak position. 5-6 guys can pretty much gank any single ship that comes through the gate, although it's not that great for actually fighting anything.

Just keep in mind that you're literally talking about tech 1 haulers, believe me they're more afraid of you than you are of them.

-Dimi

This is actually one of the best ways to get out of a bubble as well. You better be quick though, or the interceptors will decloak you. Which makes for good game play.

Well, this 'trick' is even easier to do now than it used to be...used to be that you had to click the MWD before/immediately after the cloak...

Currently, since they re-did the cloaking animation you actually have until the cloak animation is 100% complete (can be upwards of 6 seconds) to activate any modules. Though you are also fully visible for that same period of time as well.

I'm not so sure it's an exploit, but I thank you for bringing it up because I do think it should change. I say this as an industrialist. While I do PvP and have PvP toons most of my hours online are used to tend to my industrial activities and I am much more often the mouse than the cat. Regardless, I do believe the MWDCloak trick is inappropriate. There should be a clear progression of skill and piloting for the industrialist. At the beginning with no skills or ships, the industrialist should be in T1 ships and be working in high sec. When he does venture into low sec in order to learn PI or whatever, his travel options should be severely limited, with his game plan being simply to avoid going through camps. This should motivate him to train for BR and DST. Industrialists should not consider heavy operations in low or null until they can fly these ships and fit them and use them tactically.

I am an avid user of DSTs. I find that 99.9% of random PvPers and even most campers in low sec are unprepared to tackle a DST, particularly when fitted with warp core stabs to bring the overall warp core strength to 3-5. DSTs are more effective than people give them credit for, but most don't know this because they just don't use DSTs. I recently talked with some friends about my use of the DST and an indy friend responded that in the situations where I was using a DST he just used a T1. Further, when we were advising a friend of ours on how to fit his new DST, my first friend did not advise him to fit a MMJD or extra warp stabs, but rather advised him to fit an MWD and cloak, just as a T1 would be fitted. Apparently the DST's survival mechanisms are not as effective as the MWDCloak trick that any ship can use.

I think the MWDCloak trick takes the fun out of being the mouse in the game of cat and mouse. I also think it runs contrary to the intended advantages that should be offered by DSTs and BRs.

Whether it should be classified as an exploit is iffy, but the MWDCloak trick is definitely unbalanced and frustrates PvPers and frankly even penalizes industrialists, who should be required to devote themselves to good piloting just like any other Eve player.

I'm against suicide ganking. I am for faster concord. I am for reasonable war dec. I do not object to high sec being a happy happy care bear land. My attitudes are normally squarely in line with typical industrialist thinking. But on this issue I side completely with the PvPers. Once you leave high sec, industrialist or not, cat or mouse, you need to be able to pilot. You need to train the right ships and use the right techniques. The MWDCloak trick runs completely contrary to all that.