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Cloak + Microwarpdrive Trick. Is it an exploit? Should it be?

Author
Riozuil
New Jovian Exploration Department
New Jovian Collective
#1 - 2014-10-24 05:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Riozuil
Players in low and nullsec space will certainly understand the frustration that comes along with having a gank all lined up only to have it ruined by a hauler having a Tech 1 Cloak and a microwarpdrive. I haven't seen any posts regarding this issue other than multiple forum posts encouraging players to use it. As the ganking party, it is one of the most aggrivating events that can occur when you have an instalocking ship, specifically designed to catch ships on a gate, and you have to simply watch your should be victim flying away.

The question I ask is this. Is this combination considered to be an exploit of game mechanics? If so is there a plan to modify game mechanics to remedy it? Or is this quasi-legal method being allowed in the interest of furthering the industrial needs of New Eden?

My opinion on the matter is this, and do feel free to disagree or rip me a new one, but if you have the ability to avoid targeting by another ship, and can instantly warp away after your cloak comes down you should be using a Covert Ops cloak. While the main ability of a Covert ops cloak compared to the rest is the ability to warp WHILE cloaked, only black ops battleships are capable of attaining the speed required to warp while cloaked without a covert ops cloak. That being said, any prop mods should shut off at the time the cloak is activated, not be allowed to run their full cycle while the cloak is on. If you can't activate an afterburner or microwarp drive while cloaked, even with a covert ops cloak, then how does the module continue to function after a cloaking device is activated? This combination has been a mainstay of EVE players for many years due to the clever manipulation of game mechanics, yet I feel those mechanics may need to be revisited.

Food for thought, and the start of what I hope will be a productive discussion folks
Danjun Zahid
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-10-24 05:18:13 UTC
well your first line says it all. the idea is that these ships are not (most of the time) pvp ships and not not allow this would end up in potentially far more non pvp ship deaths which can hit all kinds of markets including null sec loot. you cannot just apply the 'exploit' to haulers because there are many other types that use it. like explorers. and at the end of the day, gate camps are usually only catch those that are afk or panic, to camp simply to get the haulers who put up no fight at all is a bit iffy in my books for low sec.
Riozuil
New Jovian Exploration Department
New Jovian Collective
#3 - 2014-10-24 05:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Riozuil
The reason I applied the reasoning to haulers in my initial post is the fact that the VAST majority of ships employing this tactic are haulers. Yes there are other ships which are capable of doing this trick, I understand. Yet for instance if a gang is hunting a Blockade Runner in lowsec as an example, they put an instalocking HIC on the gate for its infinite point they know the Blockade Runner will use. This is using tactics to set up a gank by negating your enemies strengths. That blockade runner still has a few choices.

1. The simplest. Use a scout. Derp central.

2. Perhaps the camp fleet doesnt have a ship with a scrambler, which is what CCP made it possible to fit a Medium Micro Jump Drive to Blockade runners for.

3. Use that recently buffed tank to survive the flight back to the gate.

4. (My preferred option) Die in a horrible ball of fire dropping many iskies to the ganking parties.

Pirates are people too. Just mean.... uncaring people with cold hearts and empty wallets.
Danjun Zahid
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-10-24 05:41:22 UTC
pirates who dominate a space also have access to more richer space. problem is, is that with the new expansion shitting on cap haulers, the non jumpy guys are going to need a break as i reckon they will be used more, especially the t2 ones. its a function that has been in the game for a long time. if it were a bug, it would have been fixed months and months ago. tbh i like it, it makes catching them much more of a challange.
Iyokus Patrouette
Noir.
The Network.
#5 - 2014-10-24 05:47:37 UTC
Gate Campers have tools for making camping possible, Haulers have tools to make avoiding a gate camp possible. Those people prepared enough to use the tools available to them deserve to avoid your camp. People who don't use those tools deserve to die to your camp.

No this shouldn't change, maybe you need to adapt your camp to give you the best possible chance of getting a de cloak on the target while they align out.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#6 - 2014-10-24 05:49:24 UTC
It is not a 'trick'

It is a legit game mechanic.

This has been discussed numerous times in the past.





Try finding targets that shoot back and the Cloak/MWD mechanic will not bother you again.


Riozuil
New Jovian Exploration Department
New Jovian Collective
#7 - 2014-10-24 05:54:30 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
It is not a 'trick'



Actually every post I found, yes including those in favor of this mechanic call it a trick. =)
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-10-24 06:29:06 UTC
1) It's a legit game mechanic

2) You have 10 seconds to decloak and point them: grab an inty and go practice instead of wasting time on the forums

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Riozuil
New Jovian Exploration Department
New Jovian Collective
#9 - 2014-10-24 06:37:56 UTC
Well this was supposed to be a discussion about whether or not this SHOULD be a legitimate game machanic, not if it IS. Obviously that point was completely missed.

Consider this thread closed unless you want to continue having nonsense arguments about something this post was not intended to address, like whether or not I am "wasting time" on the forums. If this post is wasting your time then dont comment on it and waste more, just move on.
Luwc
LOGOS Community
Lux Collective
#10 - 2014-10-24 06:53:41 UTC
yes.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-10-24 07:05:02 UTC
Riozuil wrote:
Well this was supposed to be a discussion about whether or not this SHOULD be a legitimate game machanic, not if it IS. Obviously that point was completely missed.

Consider this thread closed unless you want to continue having nonsense arguments about something this post was not intended to address, like whether or not I am "wasting time" on the forums. If this post is wasting your time then dont comment on it and waste more, just move on.
Welcome to EVE-O Forums!

If you really want a serious answer, here it is:

1) I suspect that mods (such as, but not limited to, MWD) not shutting off immediately after acitivating cloak is probably more of a technical programming issue than an actual gameplay choice by CCP. Yes, it would also make sense that mods shut-off immediately, thus making things such as mwd+cloak impossible. I'm frankly neutral on this.

2) In any case, you have to consider the meta-game - as always. No MWD+cloak would mean MUCH less non-cloaky haulers in lowsec, so your l33t pvp gatecamping would still produce very few hauler killmails (for lack of haulers to have surprise buttsex with).

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-10-24 07:09:16 UTC
if they haven't been given the mwd + cloak trick you wouldn't see them in LS in the first place. No gain.

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe

greg01
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#13 - 2014-10-24 11:31:24 UTC
So, you are frustrated when an unarmed ship gets the better of your well thought out gate camp?

Firstly, deal with it. The cloaks MWD is a great trick/exploit/game mechanic that stops Elite pvp'r said such as yourself having their own way on a gate!

Still frustrated? I suggest you get some popcorn , sit down and start watching my little pony vids. Failing that world of Warcraft is yearning for someone of your standards.

Look forward to more "they got away" tears.....
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-10-24 11:45:02 UTC
So you are angry whtat you aamazign 10 peopel gate camp fail to kill t1 haulers? How about you go look for something a bit more relevant as a target?


Gatecamping is already a lame tactic ( not talking about the tactical type where you know a target is moving, you pass ahead somehow and wait him at the gate, but of the let sit here for 4 hours and shoot at anything that comes by.. andif it is dangerous we log off before he jumps trough).

The trick isnot an exploit and it is not so easy to execute if your latency to the server surpasses 500ms (then any isnta locker will get you)

Would be silly if an orca coudl do it.. but t1 haulers set up for fast acceleration are not breaking the game.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-10-24 11:59:10 UTC
It should be a legitimate tactic. The haulers need some defense. Without it, haulers wouldn't haul in lowsec and then the pirates wouldn't have a chance at killing loot pinatas. Having this mechanic ads to the game.

.

Luwc
LOGOS Community
Lux Collective
#16 - 2014-10-24 12:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Luwc
balance by

> If you fit prototype or improved cloak you cant fit warp stabs.

gives inties a chance to decloak the sucker before he warps off but keeps the mwd cloak trick.


inb4 tears "BUTT NOO MY T1 HAULER NEEDS TO BE INVINCIBLE."

**** off - train t2 transports ****

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Luwc
LOGOS Community
Lux Collective
#17 - 2014-10-24 12:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Luwc
Interceptor needs a chance to decloak them before they can warp and point them.

therefore T1 haulers should be only to fit EITHER warpstabs or a cloak.

Want to haul your **** safely ? Train T2 Haulers.

I think it is an exploit because it simply unbalances T1 and T2 industrial hulls.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
Feign Disorder
#18 - 2014-10-24 13:00:24 UTC
leave lowsec and go to null where you can bubble the gate and no cloak + warp tricks
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#19 - 2014-10-24 13:11:58 UTC
CCP accidentally once messed up that trick on some expansion and they fixed it back as soon as possible so i think it is working as intended.
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-10-24 15:47:07 UTC
No, cloak+MWD trick is working as intended. Also, the cloak+MWD trick is not 100% effective. The ship can still be caught if you got good tacklers who know what they are doing.
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