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[Phoebe] Stealth Bombers

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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#941 - 2014-10-29 15:24:58 UTC
Heinrich Rotwang wrote:


Because such an army of alts is very likely to be funded by real money and not paid for in isk.


you cant fund gameplay by ISK, every plex is paid by real money.
some people just bribe other players to pay for them.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#942 - 2014-10-29 15:25:30 UTC
Heinrich Rotwang wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
dephekt wrote:
Quote:
We can't weather such a sharp subscriber loss right now and we can't afford to dedicate time to actually fix things the way we should, so here are some token changes instead.
FTFY


If this is the message that you're getting from Phoebe, then I'm afraid I can't do anything to help you. Lol


The message we are getting is that you are terrified of those ISBoxer bombers being unsubbed...


Because such an army of alts is very likely to be funded by real money and not paid for in isk.


You know someone had to buy the plex at some point right

Don't be dense
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#943 - 2014-10-29 15:27:51 UTC
To be fair, he could also be implying that it is IMPOSSIBLE to make enough isk to afford all the plex needed to keep the accounts subscribed.

This concept is so alien to me, it kinda hurt my brain to come up with it.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#944 - 2014-10-29 15:30:43 UTC
Querns wrote:
To be fair, he could also be implying that it is IMPOSSIBLE to make enough isk to afford all the plex needed to keep the accounts subscribed.

This concept is so alien to me, it kinda hurt my brain to come up with it.


I think if you farm incursions alone with an isbotted nightmare fleet for example, its probably not that hard
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#945 - 2014-10-29 15:30:49 UTC
The funny thing is, we all fly tengus in null because of bombers. Now that Fozzie has all but shot down what could have been a blossoming resurgence of battleship doctrines, we are left with the original problem...and an upcoming Tengu nerf at that!
Heinrich Rotwang
Spectre Fleet Corporation
#946 - 2014-10-29 15:33:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinrich Rotwang
punch monke wrote:

Why would they not decloak eachother? Been in fleets where literally 100bombers decloak and bomb in intervals. They are op and you got rid of the one change to address it. I meean you get in a fleet cloak, the squad commander warps them around, all they do is hit decloak, bomb, and warp off. Regroup and do it again. Doesn't take much effort, can do it afk. If they are sitting on top of eachother then there is no reason they should decloak eachother.

The reason why there are there are no fleet fights in anything bigger than a crusiers


Talking effort, I was wondering how the mysterical out of the sudden isboxer sb squad that seems to camp all of null 24/7 to the extent of BS fleets unable to undock, can get a successful run on you that easily. You aren't by any chance sitting unaligned in the place the fleetwarp dropped you while watching netflix? Because if not, Im wondering, how they bomb a constantly on the move, scattered fleet. How do they even get the 30km away align point on a fleet thats paying attention? It's not like the bombers are invisible in local, aren't they?

Also - I think I remember some of the people in this thread from when isboxed catalysts mass suicided into hisec miners and freighters and the message there was something along the lines of HTFU and adapt. Double standards much?
Semaj Valencia
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#947 - 2014-10-29 15:33:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Semaj Valencia
AttentionAttentionAttentionWhat CCP doing to the bombers is a good thing. However, What they are doing to the capitals/black op's is a bad thing and will only result to players demanding to change the capitals/black ops back to the way they use to be. dont make it to where they cant use the jump drive for 3 days, that is just plain stupidy on your part CCP.Attention so I STRONGLY URGE FOR CCP TO REVIEW THEIR CHANGES TO CAPITALS/ BLACK OPS.AttentionX
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#948 - 2014-10-29 15:40:45 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Seriously what is wrong with everyone? Bombers are suppose to be good against BS. That is the POINT. Nerf them so BS are safe again? Fly in high-sec if you want no risk.

Show me all these fleets of BS being wiped from the battle field all the time. I just don't see it. Bombers are not that high on the kills list. (Ishtars are!). As for bomb runs are easy to set up (yea right). A quick look at your killboard show that you know nothing about it, and the "its my alt account that does bombing" is not going to cut it. Put up, and show the data of all this rampant bomb runs or shut up.

As for "only amour doctrines are viable". That is sort of true. But its not just because of bombers. It is how sig radius work with tracking as well. Oh and the fact that shield mods use mids and therefore you lose valuable ewar slots etc.


One nicely executed bomb run and the forums are full of tears.

OMG, a bomber blew up my internet space ship. Cry
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#949 - 2014-10-29 15:43:11 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Awesome. As for the whiners that think bombing is a scrub thing. Try it. It is pretty clear you haven't bombed and don't know what your talking about. With bombers not decloaking each other its possible. It just isn't with with decloaking. At least not practically and no its not about skill. Its about how the server works and how the flying and warping mechanics work.

And awww how sad, you may need a AF or cepter or 2 to fly with your BS fleets.

Just look at the killboards. Bombers are no OP and have already a host of counters if you weren't so lazy as to use them. You have local for gods sake. You know they are there.

And bombers are getting the jump nerf as well.

Really show me some proof that bombers are OP. If they are lots of people would be bombing all day. But they are not. It is the odd successful bomb run out of often many failed ones.

(I will refrain from discussing the isboxer rubbish, seriously HTFU).



Completely agree with this.

Keep in mind we're still talking about frigates, granted they're specialized frigates, but it's a small ship so I don't see how messing with align times and warp speed would even remotely be considered an upgrade. Plain and simple, it's a nerf.


If the T1 ships can fly faster and align quicker than the T2 variant, why should someone skill for it?

Bombers have a purpose; they provide surprise hit and run attacks, and fleet disruption. Not much else than that. Nerfing the bomb speed because someone can't align fast enough is clearly an advantage to the player being bombed, defeating the purpose of surprise attacks/hit and run tactics.

Messing with that means someone doesn't understand the use of bombers.

Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"!

POS fix dated back to 2006!
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#950 - 2014-10-29 15:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Here are our latest updates to the plan.

Firstly and most significantly, the change to decloaking mechanics has been put on hold indefinitely..



Oh come on .... this was one of the best changes coming .....

i was so hyped for it ... bombing is way to easy and have way to BIG influance on the fights : S What?What?

Shame :<
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#951 - 2014-10-29 15:49:50 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Zverofaust wrote:
Incredibly disappointed. More experienced and skilled wordsmiths have explained why better than I ever could, but I feel this change was needed. I love wheniammzi as much as anyone but erasing entire fleets of enemy shis is simply too easy at the moment and the pressure of that fact has had a huge effect on the meta. That fight a couple of weeks ago in which almost 800 tengus faced off from a half dozen different fleets should have been a wakeup call that **** is getting ridiculous.

I don't know the best way to do it but the announced changes seemed to be on the right track -- not so much a nerf as simply requiring mote effort, organization and planning to wield the horrific power that bombers undeniably hold.

I'd hoped like many that ccp was serious about revolutionizing the game with huge changes but this really hits me in the feels.


wheniaminspace and ammzi have both posted in this thread telling you why this change didn't really change their ability to bomb effectively with isboxer
in fact both of the previous people have argued in favour of banning the use of isboxer with bombing instead

everyone agrees isboxing bombing is completely out of control but that nerf wasn't going to effect to even nearly the same extent it would have classic bombing


Despite all this, the PL talking heads still say the same thing "nerf bombers", like it will put them into BS fleets.

So what would they be saying if bomb launchers could be fit on something like a battleship? Align, MJD, launch. 10 12 seconds later, no more enemy fleet.

NERF BATTLESHIPS! BATTLESHIPS OP!

Never mind that it was the bombs that did the damage. Applied damage from bombs has almost nothing to do with the ship that launches it. Yet they still cry to nerf the ship, leaving the weapon system untouched.

In reality, they're going to be rolling around in OP T3s that can be blops bridged with 50% reduced fatigue and cooldowns, refit on the fly with mobile depots or at a POS, and be completely combat ready in 2 minutes with a fleet that is stronger than any BS fleet for the exact same reasons they always have: reduced sigRad and massive tank.

1337 pvpers: "These aren't the nerfs you're looking for."

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#952 - 2014-10-29 15:57:54 UTC
Semaj Valencia wrote:
dont make it to where they cant use the jump drive for 3 days, that is just plain stupidy on your part CCP

I could also say its pretty dumb to let it get that high, but thats a bit off topic.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#953 - 2014-10-29 16:03:04 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Capqu wrote:
Zverofaust wrote:
Incredibly disappointed. More experienced and skilled wordsmiths have explained why better than I ever could, but I feel this change was needed. I love wheniammzi as much as anyone but erasing entire fleets of enemy shis is simply too easy at the moment and the pressure of that fact has had a huge effect on the meta. That fight a couple of weeks ago in which almost 800 tengus faced off from a half dozen different fleets should have been a wakeup call that **** is getting ridiculous.

I don't know the best way to do it but the announced changes seemed to be on the right track -- not so much a nerf as simply requiring mote effort, organization and planning to wield the horrific power that bombers undeniably hold.

I'd hoped like many that ccp was serious about revolutionizing the game with huge changes but this really hits me in the feels.


wheniaminspace and ammzi have both posted in this thread telling you why this change didn't really change their ability to bomb effectively with isboxer
in fact both of the previous people have argued in favour of banning the use of isboxer with bombing instead

everyone agrees isboxing bombing is completely out of control but that nerf wasn't going to effect to even nearly the same extent it would have classic bombing


Despite all this, the PL talking heads still say the same thing "nerf bombers", like it will put them into BS fleets.

So what would they be saying if bomb launchers could be fit on something like a battleship? Align, MJD, launch. 10 12 seconds later, no more enemy fleet.

NERF BATTLESHIPS! BATTLESHIPS OP!

Never mind that it was the bombs that did the damage. Applied damage from bombs has almost nothing to do with the ship that launches it. Yet they still cry to nerf the ship, leaving the weapon system untouched.

In reality, they're going to be rolling around in OP T3s that can be blops bridged with 50% reduced fatigue and cooldowns, refit on the fly with mobile depots or at a POS, and be completely combat ready in 2 minutes with a fleet that is stronger than any BS fleet for the exact same reasons they always have: reduced sigRad and massive tank.

1337 pvpers: "These aren't the nerfs you're looking for."


Calm down and use your words
CorryBasler
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#954 - 2014-10-29 16:09:09 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Capqu wrote:
Zverofaust wrote:
Incredibly disappointed. More experienced and skilled wordsmiths have explained why better than I ever could, but I feel this change was needed. I love wheniammzi as much as anyone but erasing entire fleets of enemy shis is simply too easy at the moment and the pressure of that fact has had a huge effect on the meta. That fight a couple of weeks ago in which almost 800 tengus faced off from a half dozen different fleets should have been a wakeup call that **** is getting ridiculous.

I don't know the best way to do it but the announced changes seemed to be on the right track -- not so much a nerf as simply requiring mote effort, organization and planning to wield the horrific power that bombers undeniably hold.

I'd hoped like many that ccp was serious about revolutionizing the game with huge changes but this really hits me in the feels.


wheniaminspace and ammzi have both posted in this thread telling you why this change didn't really change their ability to bomb effectively with isboxer
in fact both of the previous people have argued in favour of banning the use of isboxer with bombing instead

everyone agrees isboxing bombing is completely out of control but that nerf wasn't going to effect to even nearly the same extent it would have classic bombing


Despite all this, the PL talking heads still say the same thing "nerf bombers", like it will put them into BS fleets.

So what would they be saying if bomb launchers could be fit on something like a battleship? Align, MJD, launch. 10 12 seconds later, no more enemy fleet.

NERF BATTLESHIPS! BATTLESHIPS OP!

Never mind that it was the bombs that did the damage. Applied damage from bombs has almost nothing to do with the ship that launches it. Yet they still cry to nerf the ship, leaving the weapon system untouched.

In reality, they're going to be rolling around in OP T3s that can be blops bridged with 50% reduced fatigue and cooldowns, refit on the fly with mobile depots or at a POS, and be completely combat ready in 2 minutes with a fleet that is stronger than any BS fleet for the exact same reasons they always have: reduced sigRad and massive tank.

1337 pvpers: "These aren't the nerfs you're looking for."


U seem pretty mad bro
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#955 - 2014-10-29 16:13:33 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Capqu wrote:
Zverofaust wrote:
Incredibly disappointed. More experienced and skilled wordsmiths have explained why better than I ever could, but I feel this change was needed. I love wheniammzi as much as anyone but erasing entire fleets of enemy shis is simply too easy at the moment and the pressure of that fact has had a huge effect on the meta. That fight a couple of weeks ago in which almost 800 tengus faced off from a half dozen different fleets should have been a wakeup call that **** is getting ridiculous.

I don't know the best way to do it but the announced changes seemed to be on the right track -- not so much a nerf as simply requiring mote effort, organization and planning to wield the horrific power that bombers undeniably hold.

I'd hoped like many that ccp was serious about revolutionizing the game with huge changes but this really hits me in the feels.


wheniaminspace and ammzi have both posted in this thread telling you why this change didn't really change their ability to bomb effectively with isboxer
in fact both of the previous people have argued in favour of banning the use of isboxer with bombing instead

everyone agrees isboxing bombing is completely out of control but that nerf wasn't going to effect to even nearly the same extent it would have classic bombing


Despite all this, the PL talking heads still say the same thing "nerf bombers", like it will put them into BS fleets.

So what would they be saying if bomb launchers could be fit on something like a battleship? Align, MJD, launch. 10 12 seconds later, no more enemy fleet.

NERF BATTLESHIPS! BATTLESHIPS OP!

Never mind that it was the bombs that did the damage. Applied damage from bombs has almost nothing to do with the ship that launches it. Yet they still cry to nerf the ship, leaving the weapon system untouched.

In reality, they're going to be rolling around in OP T3s that can be blops bridged with 50% reduced fatigue and cooldowns, refit on the fly with mobile depots or at a POS, and be completely combat ready in 2 minutes with a fleet that is stronger than any BS fleet for the exact same reasons they always have: reduced sigRad and massive tank.

1337 pvpers: "These aren't the nerfs you're looking for."


Show us on the doll where PL touched you

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#956 - 2014-10-29 16:18:26 UTC
Step in the right direction, Fozzie. Now we just need to get rid of ISBoxing bombers and we're good.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#957 - 2014-10-29 16:45:49 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Step in the right direction, Fozzie. Now we just need to get rid of ISBoxing bombers and we're good.


oh you had to mention that didn't you... you had to go there... now they will be watching you... *hands him the special foil hat and a passport, ticket and sunglasses*... try to get out the back while you can.
Heinrich Rotwang
Spectre Fleet Corporation
#958 - 2014-10-29 16:52:17 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Heinrich Rotwang wrote:

Because such an army of alts is very likely to be funded by real money and not paid for in isk.

do you idiots think ccp accepts isk for subscriptions? you bought a gift card off someone else for isk, ccp got actual dollars (and more than if you'd subscribed), you didn't give ccp worthless space money


Actually I'm exclusively funding my gameplay by selling a lot plexes in Jita. Plexes I bought with €. There seem to be people out there that have a need to buy these PLEX with isk. Wonder how much money CCP is making of them.
Drakken Lowenhertz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#959 - 2014-10-29 17:06:18 UTC
Very glad to hear the cloak change is being reassessed, would have left things painfully punishing for working with anyone that isnt very well versed in the execution the cloaky arts. o7 Fozzie
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#960 - 2014-10-29 17:31:00 UTC
punch monke wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Here are our latest updates to the plan.

Firstly and most significantly, the change to decloaking mechanics has been put on hold indefinitely. We are going to take some more time to work on the best way to have ships interact with cloakies and it's very possible that our eventual changes will be significantly different than what we talked about earlier. For now, cloaked ships will not decloak each other.

We're also going to be removing some of the earlier increase in signature radius and shifting it to a penalty on the bomb launcher itself. The T1 bomb launcher will add +10m signature radius and the T2 will add 12m.

We're increasing the capacity of the T2 bomb launcher to 300m3.

The Focused Void Bomb will have an explosion radius of 5000m, 1000m more than originally proposed.

Both the new bomb and new interdiction probe will be made available exclusively in the Syndicate LP store.

The new interdiction probe will be delayed slightly as we've run into some graphical issues with it that we'll need more time to properly fix.

We've sourced a lot of these changes from this thread, thanks to everyone who has been providing feedback.


Why would they not decloak eachother? Been in fleets where literally 100bombers decloak and bomb in intervals. They are op and you got rid of the one change to address it. I meean you get in a fleet cloak, the squad commander warps them around, all they do is hit decloak, bomb, and warp off. Regroup and do it again. Doesn't take much effort, can do it afk. If they are sitting on top of eachother then there is no reason they should decloak eachother.

The reason why there are there are no fleet fights in anything bigger than a crusiers


Lets see, 7 bombers per wave. 5 seconds between waves. That is 14 waves of bombs and it takes 70 seconds. You sat around watching 14 waves of bombs? How bad you can you be? You didn't notice that 100 extra people in local?

Yea, someone in this case was unskilled. It wasn't the bombing pilots.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.