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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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New Phoebe Dynamics + off grid boosting

Author
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-10-19 17:24:53 UTC
Is there any news of when CCP plans to bring link bonuses on-grid?

There is already a sour note to engagement strategy where one side will avoid conflict anywhere but where their offgrid boost alt rests.

Where we used to have capital engagements that would 'settle' and ultimately be resolved in A system, the new changes combined with HIC capabilities mean that dynamic will have the opportunity to change into being spread across two or more systems. I really don't want to see these ships that can now use gates having too many valid excuses not to. Engagements that would spark a fight ending up with neither side wanting to jump into the other because of 15% bonuses.

I admit it's not a huge deal (well, not much larger than offgrid boosting already is) but worth pinging out on and seeing if anyone at CCP can C/D this is in near-future discussions.

Sidenote: Perhaps with on grid boosts we could also see some changes to give people a reason and opportunity to fit their links on their carriers or dreads? Idea

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#2 - 2014-10-19 17:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
You can tank a damnation or boosting prots/legions, etc. up to significant levels of tank that make them viable to bring along with a gate to gate capital force I can't see on-grid/off-grid having any bearing there.
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-10-19 18:03:22 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:


Sidenote: Perhaps with on grid boosts we could also see some changes to give people a reason and opportunity to fit their links on their carriers or dreads? Idea



ummmmm im pretty sure there are more important things that need to be in those slots so yeah............

So Much Space

Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-10-19 19:20:23 UTC
Rroff wrote:
You can tank a damnation or boosting prots/legions, etc. up to significant levels of tank that make them viable to bring along with a gate to gate capital force I can't see on-grid/off-grid having any bearing there.


Tanks can be significant yes, but the reality is most will opt to keep those links off grid (the best tank is to avoid being shot entirely).

Observable behavior is what it is and is readily apparent on TQ.

Faren Shalni wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:


Sidenote: Perhaps with on grid boosts we could also see some changes to give people a reason and opportunity to fit their links on their carriers or dreads? Idea



ummmmm im pretty sure there are more important things that need to be in those slots so yeah............


What if that wasnt the case?

Or to say, I think an extra 2.5% would make it worth one of a group freeing up a highslot or two

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-10-19 19:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Madbuster73
There are already dozens of threads about this topic.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&search=off+grid+boosting

Can you please use the search function first before starting yet another one?

Also, off grid boosters have been probable for over a year now.
So stop whining, buy a Virtue set and probe them down.



Please lock.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#6 - 2014-10-19 20:08:24 UTC
Madbuster73 wrote:
There are already dozens of threads about this topic.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&search=off+grid+boosting

Can you please use the search function first before starting yet another one?


Please lock.



Given that the most recent thread that appears on the search feature is 5 months old, and locked indefinitely, I would disagree. Please actually check the search results before condemning someone of which you accuse.

I think most reasonable people can agree that OGBs are not balanced and in-line with the spirit of eve, which to it's very core is a risk vs reward game, Using OGBs has incredibly minor risk for someone who is attentive for massive boosts, and aside from entering the system, which still requires multiple decloaking ceptors+fast lockers for you to be caught, you are almost invulnerable, if you just align to friendly POS / station in system you are in (NPC Null/Low), or a gate in station-less or hostile systems and warp as soon as hostile lands on grid, if they're able to use a 2b implant set and maxed probing character to do this. This can be further compounded by probing a Plex/Mission and making a spot on the edge of dead-space, giving you 16~ minutes of safety even if you are probed and a boosted interceptor is making best speed through dead-space towards you, alternatively, just hop spots when someone has probes on <1au and delete and don't use it, and you'll almost never be caught.

I think Command Ships are in a good place right now. T3s could probably use a small defensive bonus on the Warfare Link Subsystems, I think the warfare command processor should have been an offensive subsystem, but it's too late to change that now, so having maybe a smaller boost of the passive subsystem, like +25% Armor/Shield, instead of 50%, and higher base stats so they can function on grid would be a good alternative. I think there should be a faster more mobile link ship (Like a Destroyer) so that it's able to provide bonuses to smaller or more nomadic gangs, the new T3 Destroyers sound like a good testing bed for that role.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#7 - 2014-10-19 20:18:13 UTC
^^ Not really the thread for it but - I'm all for encouraging the use of on grid links but outside of the far from all encompassing case where they are a bit lame in PVP there are a lot of other areas when off grid links are used and are pretty much required to be that way for a number of reasons.

i.e. theres no real alternative other than some tricked out loki maybe for on grid links when using small fast ships in a moderate size roaming fleet, then there is always mining/PVE use and other uses.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-10-19 20:19:54 UTC
Madbuster73 wrote:
There are already dozens of threads about this topic.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&search=off+grid+boosting

Can you please use the search function first before starting yet another one?

Also, off grid boosters have been probable for over a year now.
So stop whining, buy a Virtue set and probe them down.



Please lock.


What is this drivel? Literally nothing you just said is accurate or has any revelance to my OP

Thanks for the troll bump I suppose.Lol

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-10-19 20:21:06 UTC
Quote:
Given that the most recent thread that appears on the search feature is 5 months old, and locked indefinitely, I would disagree. Please actually check the search results before condemning someone of which you accuse.


It got locked for the same reason this should get locked (multiple threads already, and they made OGB probable)

Again, please lock.


Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-10-19 20:27:57 UTC
Suitonia wrote:


I think Command Ships are in a good place right now. T3s could probably use a small defensive bonus on the Warfare Link Subsystems, I think the warfare command processor should have been an offensive subsystem, but it's too late to change that now, so having maybe a smaller boost of the passive subsystem, like +25% Armor/Shield, instead of 50%, and higher base stats so they can function on grid would be a good alternative. I think there should be a faster more mobile link ship (Like a Destroyer) so that it's able to provide bonuses to smaller or more nomadic gangs, the new T3 Destroyers sound like a good testing bed for that role.



I'd like to see a classful links system, which would encourage classful fleet/wing/squad structures.

T3 destroyers fit a unique link for all hulls dessy and smaller

T3 cruisers fit links (the current ones) and give bonuses to hulls cruiser to battleship.

Command ships also use the current link mods and can give bonuses to all hull types except caps.

And a cap only mod for cap hull bonuses. Not sure if it should be isolated to titans/moms, ok for all caps, a mix of the above? Maybe titans and new t2 dreads/carriers P
...dunno, just an idea

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-10-19 20:33:27 UTC
Madbuster73 wrote:
Quote:
Given that the most recent thread that appears on the search feature is 5 months old, and locked indefinitely, I would disagree. Please actually check the search results before condemning someone of which you accuse.


It got locked for the same reason this should get locked (multiple threads already, and they made OGB probable)

Again, please lock.




The entire dynamic of fleet engagements is changing. There have been exactly zero threads discussing ogb in this new context.

Cry moar.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#12 - 2014-10-19 21:40:40 UTC
-1 for more bonused ships to boosting. If you want fleet boosts, bring a command ship, t3 or similar, or accept unbonused but much more resiliant links.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2014-10-19 21:49:43 UTC
Rroff wrote:
You can tank a damnation or boosting prots/legions, etc. up to significant levels of tank that make them viable to bring along with a gate to gate capital force I can't see on-grid/off-grid having any bearing there.


I don't care how much tank you have its nothing compared to the amount of tank you have when off grid and not being shot at


as a FW pilot i would love to see the death of off grid boosters

if their hang up is the code just use the AOE scripts like the one for a HIC bubble just make the range go out several thousand KM
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#14 - 2014-10-19 21:53:00 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rroff wrote:
You can tank a damnation or boosting prots/legions, etc. up to significant levels of tank that make them viable to bring along with a gate to gate capital force I can't see on-grid/off-grid having any bearing there.


I don't care how much tank you have its nothing compared to the amount of tank you have when off grid and not being shot at


as a FW pilot i would love to see the death of off grid boosters

if their hang up is the code just use the AOE scripts like the one for a HIC bubble just make the range go out several thousand KM

AOE ranges that large, and that far reaching are hell on servers in n+1 situations, as it must make at least 3 database calls per ship per tick that you need to check for boosts, and this is disregarding the checks for valid fleet compositions.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-10-20 00:02:11 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rroff wrote:
You can tank a damnation or boosting prots/legions, etc. up to significant levels of tank that make them viable to bring along with a gate to gate capital force I can't see on-grid/off-grid having any bearing there.


I don't care how much tank you have its nothing compared to the amount of tank you have when off grid and not being shot at


as a FW pilot i would love to see the death of off grid boosters

if their hang up is the code just use the AOE scripts like the one for a HIC bubble just make the range go out several thousand KM

AOE ranges that large, and that far reaching are hell on servers in n+1 situations, as it must make at least 3 database calls per ship per tick that you need to check for boosts, and this is disregarding the checks for valid fleet compositions.


Indeed. Everything requires processing power, the question is whether its prohibitively processor intensive. The case has never been made by ccp that I'm aware of to suggest it would be.

AoE opens options for varying range bonuses between hull types and strategies to counter. With a 15km rang you would have to weight the pros and cons of being in or out of that ball.

This would open strategic options for using multiple link ships to fulfill the different roles you use (think formations). With say tanky link ship for your main body wing, skirmish for you interception wing, etc...

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

Damen Apol
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-10-20 01:21:12 UTC
**** yea lets make MORE ship roles that keep small gang players unable to compete with blobs

+1
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-10-20 06:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Luwc
give boosting modules a significant cap requirement.

something around active hardeners.

therefore can be neuted = profit.

fleets will have to sort cap chains etc etc. or find another way to keep their ON GRID boosts giving bonuses creating more content in the end.

I think that off grid boosts are a broken mechanic.

This includes mining boosts as well.

i.e.

> Go on Character Bazaar or Ebay
> Buy alt boosting char
> sit on station or in pos.
> ???
> Risk free profit.

its pretty much pay2win.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Sollis Vynneve
Destructive Silence
#18 - 2014-10-20 07:20:28 UTC
Why would ccp get rid of offgrid boosting, they'd lose how many alt subscriptions.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-10-20 09:26:49 UTC
I'm more interested to see how dynamics change with the new travel mechanics first, than see ccp go swinging the nerf bat at all sorts of other things first. Give it a few months, a year to play out, and if players really are avoiding fights just because they dont have the ability to get a good booster into the system with them, then do something about it. in the meantime, I don't think it's boosters that are holding back fights.

-1 for this change at this point in time.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-10-20 23:25:27 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
I'm more interested to see how dynamics change with the new travel mechanics first, than see ccp go swinging the nerf bat at all sorts of other things first. Give it a few months, a year to play out, and if players really are avoiding fights just because they dont have the ability to get a good booster into the system with them, then do something about it. in the meantime, I don't think it's boosters that are holding back fights.

-1 for this change at this point in time.


You dont have to wait. It is demonstratably the case currently.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."