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[Phoebe] Long Distance Travel Changes - updates!

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Viaharo Musa
Evian Industries
Reeloaded.
#1441 - 2014-10-17 18:54:17 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Viaharo Musa wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I think your need to voice your opinion just triggered anothers need to voice theirs. It's fair play.

My opinion... you're looking for a way to safely move capitals and assets in those capitals around eve without the risk of losing them. I don't think that's the direction they are taking the game.


No. Im looking to keep the risk to capitals balanced. The current changes make it very dangerous for a solo player to move.
even in fleets its going to be exponentially more dangerous. This being as now whole regions are out of range of any npc system or route. Leaving the only route being THROUGH player controlled space. This will effectively put a HUGE hamper on any new cap pilot getting to a destination region how ever long it takes. I agree with keeping the time reduced to what ccp is aiming for. Not the cutting off of entire regions leaving access to them controlled through player regions... Aka if you want to get to stain. All some one has to do to control stain is lock down the surrounding regions. This will be abused in its current fashion TRUST ME. Why do you think the big blocks are actively making capital caches?


SO. No im not loing for a way to safely move them. Im looking for a WAY to move them period as a solo player to all regions. Inline with ccp trying to make it easier for people to play in null.

So ill ask this question of the CCP dev's, How do you envision the solo capital pilot being able to move around. Say from low sec to stain?? or low sec to ore space.


There is not risk to capital movement... It's not balanced..... It's being corrected...... you don't like that...... we hear you..... we just don't agree with you..... you're starting to come off as a whiner..... risk free cap movement all across eve is over....... OVER

What you call abuse.... I call justice. We'll need to agree to disagree on that. It's time to expect to occaisionally lose a ship. P


And is typical of players like you, resorting to name calling.
If you cant see what i am asking the dev's or the logic behind it. Then you are part of the problem :-)
My question to the dev's stands.
Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#1442 - 2014-10-17 18:59:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:

You keep snipping the context - my answer is a part of a specific context and not a general statement




Just adding clarity. Far too many people have no idea industry was impossible to do in null until just a few months ago.


I am pretty sure a lot of the older players being part of very old alliances that held sov back years ago will disagree with that

Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins

Before someone complains again: grr everyone

Greed is the death of loyalty
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1443 - 2014-10-17 19:00:59 UTC
Dwissi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:

You keep snipping the context - my answer is a part of a specific context and not a general statement




Just adding clarity. Far too many people have no idea industry was impossible to do in null until just a few months ago.


I am pretty sure a lot of the older players being part of very old alliances that held sov back years ago will disagree with that


As one of those people, no, we won't
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#1444 - 2014-10-17 19:02:21 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:


It's over dude, just let go.


Quitters never win, and winners never quit.



Knowing when you have lost is part of winning.




I believe I concisely summarized my objectives for being in this thread in my last post:

Polo Marco wrote:
At this point, rather than expecting you to reverse course, my main objective is to make sure that you have been exposed to both my thinking on the matter, and to something that I feel will work. I have done both throughout this thread. You asked for feedback, I felt it was needed and have responded. In the end, it will be the players themselves who will determine the success or failure of your scheme. My only responsibility here is to satisfy myself that I have done everything I could to see that a positive change is effected.


I assure you that if continuously propagating my ideas here results in them reaching the ears of someone who matters, I am not concerned with how ever many times they may bounce off the ears of those who do not.

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.
Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#1445 - 2014-10-17 19:06:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:

You keep snipping the context - my answer is a part of a specific context and not a general statement




Just adding clarity. Far too many people have no idea industry was impossible to do in null until just a few months ago.


I am pretty sure a lot of the older players being part of very old alliances that held sov back years ago will disagree with that


As one of those people, no, we won't



You are not old enough in my book :)

Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins

Before someone complains again: grr everyone

Greed is the death of loyalty
Byson1
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1446 - 2014-10-17 19:08:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:

You keep snipping the context - my answer is a part of a specific context and not a general statement




Just adding clarity. Far too many people have no idea industry was impossible to do in null until just a few months ago.


I am pretty sure a lot of the older players being part of very old alliances that held sov back years ago will disagree with that


As one of those people, no, we won't


I think what is meant here is that running an entire marketplace would be impossible if completely cut of from high sec.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#1447 - 2014-10-17 19:32:24 UTC
Byson1 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:

You keep snipping the context - my answer is a part of a specific context and not a general statement




Just adding clarity. Far too many people have no idea industry was impossible to do in null until just a few months ago.


I am pretty sure a lot of the older players being part of very old alliances that held sov back years ago will disagree with that


As one of those people, no, we won't


I think what is meant here is that running an entire marketplace would be impossible if completely cut of from high sec.



not impossible just would need to own all of null sec.
Rammix
TheMurk
#1448 - 2014-10-17 19:36:02 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:

In order to counter a capital being caught in a bubble at a gate and having to slow boat through it, I propose warp bubble immunity just like for interceptors and T3s.

I propose mobile warp disruptors having limited lifetime, of 1-2 hours. Currently they can stay at gates for ages, often preventing tiny scale (5 or less pilots) fleets from venturing into nullsec looking for short bite-n'-go pvp sessions. In other words, mobile warp disruptors is one of factors making nullsec more empty (empty: especially some areas where you can do 10 or even 15 gatejumps without ever seeing other person in local).

My points: more guerilla warfare, higher vulnerability of supercapital forces and sovereignty (making it easier to bite off some space of oversized territories), less environmental obstructions for small gangs and solo-duo pilots roaming in nullsec.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#1449 - 2014-10-17 19:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: elitatwo
ooops wrong thread, sorry

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1450 - 2014-10-17 19:54:34 UTC
Dwissi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:

You keep snipping the context - my answer is a part of a specific context and not a general statement




Just adding clarity. Far too many people have no idea industry was impossible to do in null until just a few months ago.


I am pretty sure a lot of the older players being part of very old alliances that held sov back years ago will disagree with that

No, it pretty much was impossible to do. We had less industrious capacity in the entirety of the retion of deklein than quite a LOT of systems in hisec. And that's before you take into account the fact you have to get minerals and other resources TO that station in the first place, which may or may not be possible to do because the station might not have a refinery. Etc etc etc.
Rammix
TheMurk
#1451 - 2014-10-17 19:58:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
elitatwo wrote:
Rammix wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:

In order to counter a capital being caught in a bubble at a gate and having to slow boat through it, I propose warp bubble immunity just like for interceptors and T3s.

I propose mobile warp disruptors having limited lifetime, of 1-2 hours. Currently they can stay at gates for ages, often preventing tiny scale (5 or less pilots) fleets from venturing into nullsec looking for short bite-n'-go pvp sessions. In other words, mobile warp disruptors is one of factors making nullsec more empty (empty: especially some areas where you can do 10 or even 15 gatejumps without ever seeing other person in local).

My points: more guerilla warfare, higher vulnerability of supercapital forces and sovereignty (making it easier to bite off some space of oversized territories), less environmental obstructions for small gangs and solo-duo pilots roaming in nullsec.


I believe Syndicate was the region you were looking for.

I'm not looking for anything. I'm saying that nullsec has tendency of having people cluttered in just several systems while vast areas are populated very scarcely or deserted.
And mob. w. disruptors are bad for tiny scale pvp - they're discouraging it. It's a part of eve's small scale pvp problem.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Master Dumi
Gladius Veritatis
Goonswarm Federation
#1452 - 2014-10-17 20:03:55 UTC
Still Capitals and Supers thru gates and 5Ly is stupid.

Player based movements will be to hard. Travel without big fleet thru gates will not happen. You are hurting more than repair. It will be a disaster. Also 10Ly for JF will close the option to jump from region to region without gates like Branch / Deklain

Fatigue can help with your idea but distance nerf and taking gates will ruin EvE.

Regards.
Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#1453 - 2014-10-17 20:44:15 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Dwissi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:

You keep snipping the context - my answer is a part of a specific context and not a general statement




Just adding clarity. Far too many people have no idea industry was impossible to do in null until just a few months ago.


I am pretty sure a lot of the older players being part of very old alliances that held sov back years ago will disagree with that

No, it pretty much was impossible to do. We had less industrious capacity in the entirety of the retion of deklein than quite a LOT of systems in hisec. And that's before you take into account the fact you have to get minerals and other resources TO that station in the first place, which may or may not be possible to do because the station might not have a refinery. Etc etc etc.


Allow me to be rude for once - you simply lack creativity. Any POS can be set up with a refinery array - thats how industry was done before you had access to a station. Thats what i meant with not old enough in my book - you argue on a convenience level without applying all the options that are available to us as players. There is not only stations as there is not only low level ore in high sec etc etc - you are just filtering out all the options you deem to be inconvenient.

Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins

Before someone complains again: grr everyone

Greed is the death of loyalty
Maichin Civire
#1454 - 2014-10-17 20:47:23 UTC
The war is coming.

I'm happy about it.
Bierschwale McWylie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1455 - 2014-10-17 20:55:26 UTC
What is going to keep the big guys from "pilot caching" by training a bunch of minimum skill cap pilots to trade ships with who will transparently absorb the fatigue during rapid jump bridge scrambles and re-deployments, long moves, etc.

Individuals and small corps don't have the resources to do it but big budgets create lots of plex=lots of pilot caching.

Unintended Consequences?

It is impossible to make things foolproof because fools are so ingenious...Twisted
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#1456 - 2014-10-17 20:57:06 UTC  |  Edited by: SFM Hobb3s
IRC did it (local industry) for years...even after the drone poop nerf. We did find we had to make the occasional wormhole voyage to grab some hac hulls here and there. And everyone knows that was an alliance that went through a lot of ships ;)
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1457 - 2014-10-17 21:03:00 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Bombs and IsBoxer -> cloak, mobility for stealth bombers


I'd like to point out that 99% of the people who think the cloak nerf will hurt ISBoxers more than regular bombers have either 1) Never flown bombers in their life, or 2) Have an irrational hate for ISBoxer without being able to articulate any reason that it should be banned or removed.

CCP should have talked to Templeman N about the cloak changes before going off half-cocked and inadvertently telling EVE that they never tried to coordinate multi-wave bombing runs.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1458 - 2014-10-17 21:10:20 UTC
Dwissi wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Dwissi wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dwissi wrote:

You keep snipping the context - my answer is a part of a specific context and not a general statement




Just adding clarity. Far too many people have no idea industry was impossible to do in null until just a few months ago.


I am pretty sure a lot of the older players being part of very old alliances that held sov back years ago will disagree with that

No, it pretty much was impossible to do. We had less industrious capacity in the entirety of the retion of deklein than quite a LOT of systems in hisec. And that's before you take into account the fact you have to get minerals and other resources TO that station in the first place, which may or may not be possible to do because the station might not have a refinery. Etc etc etc.


Allow me to be rude for once - you simply lack creativity. Any POS can be set up with a refinery array - thats how industry was done before you had access to a station. Thats what i meant with not old enough in my book - you argue on a convenience level without applying all the options that are available to us as players. There is not only stations as there is not only low level ore in high sec etc etc - you are just filtering out all the options you deem to be inconvenient.

POS refinery with a 75% efficiency and a ridiculous time consumption as opposed to hisec's instant and perfect refine, you mean? Not to mention that it's interruptable and costs a lot more to run than hisec's 2k isk for a maelstrom?

No, I know what possibilities lay out there, but they were so cockstabby they weren't even worth considering. The industry changes CCP implemented with crius are pretty good, and I think they're taking steps in the right direction with making nullsec more productive than hisec for all industrious activities (they have to be, considering they're easier to disrupt AND they want us to start doing more IN null), but don't for a second think sane people (I don't count IRC as completely sane, especially not if they actually were weird enough to actually use POS refineries as SOP) didn't just import their stuff from jita.

And you probably still had more industrious capacity in a single system (or maybe a few systems/a constellation) in hisec than we had in the entire region of Deklein prior to the changes with the added benefit of 100% refine AND production in the same station, so no laborious hauling involved.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1459 - 2014-10-17 21:32:25 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post.

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Celly S
Neutin Local LLC
#1460 - 2014-10-17 21:32:55 UTC
Querns wrote:
Has any thought been given to trading the Rorqual's drone damage bonus for a 10LY range?


yes, and they said the drone damage won out over the range...

That is of course the last "I" saw on it, so unless something has changed recently, the rorq gets range nerfed, but keeps the drone bonus...

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.