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Crime & Punishment

 
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pushing for harder punishment on hi sec gankers

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Revis Owen
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#881 - 2014-10-13 14:20:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Revis Owen
Veers Belvar wrote:
I reject the view that Eve is some sort of dystopian society . . .


Then, my friend, pick up the tools that CCP provides to all of us and pursue your view. Be the anti-villain!

Stop whining for CCP to provide you a risk-free experience. Gather some friends, mark off your spot in space, and do what you need to do employing the tools available to create yourself a (relatively) risk-free area. That's what EvE is about.

Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#882 - 2014-10-13 14:57:35 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Trixie Lawless wrote:
I'm really surprised this thread is still going.

Veers... If I ran a massive organization like the goons, you bet I would use a scam for recruitment. The ones that fell for it would be considered too stupid to get in. Period. Alot of this game is meta. If you arent intelligent enough to apply some common sense to your play it isn't the game for you.

Once again...if you autopilot all over the place in a shuttle then you are a dingaling. All over the internet ganking, scamming, and unexpected chaos is mentioned with EVE. Its not exactly a secret.

If you want a game to hold your half and keep you safe while you accumulate massive amounts of currency then play WoW or one of the other many rehashed mmos that exist.

You say that people leave the game because of it's harshness, and some may, but 10x that many will leave if this becomes Teletubbies in space.

No harsher punishments need to incur, people need to quit being a wuss and realize the glory that is EVE.


Well, that says something about your moral values. Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. Waffles (and trust me, I'm not a fan) doesn't scam new players. Being a nasty and miserable person isn't part of the "meta," it's just, well...pathetic.



How dare you question my morals based off of hypothetical actions in a video game.

People like you are what's wrong with gaming. You associate gameplay with reality way too much.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#883 - 2014-10-13 15:20:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Trixie Lawless wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Trixie Lawless wrote:
I'm really surprised this thread is still going.

Veers... If I ran a massive organization like the goons, you bet I would use a scam for recruitment. The ones that fell for it would be considered too stupid to get in. Period. Alot of this game is meta. If you arent intelligent enough to apply some common sense to your play it isn't the game for you.

Once again...if you autopilot all over the place in a shuttle then you are a dingaling. All over the internet ganking, scamming, and unexpected chaos is mentioned with EVE. Its not exactly a secret.

If you want a game to hold your half and keep you safe while you accumulate massive amounts of currency then play WoW or one of the other many rehashed mmos that exist.

You say that people leave the game because of it's harshness, and some may, but 10x that many will leave if this becomes Teletubbies in space.

No harsher punishments need to incur, people need to quit being a wuss and realize the glory that is EVE.


Well, that says something about your moral values. Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. Waffles (and trust me, I'm not a fan) doesn't scam new players. Being a nasty and miserable person isn't part of the "meta," it's just, well...pathetic.



How dare you question my morals based off of hypothetical actions in a video game.

People like you are what's wrong with gaming. You associate gameplay with reality way too much.
Veers appears to be of the "your actions in a video game are a reflection of you in real life" school of thought, which IMHO makes him one of those people that have problems differentiating between fantasy and real life. If you tie that in with his arrogance, despite his evident ignorance, and sense of entitlement there's a whole smorgasbord of words we could use to describe him, most of which appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and other medical publications.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#884 - 2014-10-13 15:22:05 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Trixie Lawless wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Trixie Lawless wrote:
I'm really surprised this thread is still going.

Veers... If I ran a massive organization like the goons, you bet I would use a scam for recruitment. The ones that fell for it would be considered too stupid to get in. Period. Alot of this game is meta. If you arent intelligent enough to apply some common sense to your play it isn't the game for you.

Once again...if you autopilot all over the place in a shuttle then you are a dingaling. All over the internet ganking, scamming, and unexpected chaos is mentioned with EVE. Its not exactly a secret.

If you want a game to hold your half and keep you safe while you accumulate massive amounts of currency then play WoW or one of the other many rehashed mmos that exist.

You say that people leave the game because of it's harshness, and some may, but 10x that many will leave if this becomes Teletubbies in space.

No harsher punishments need to incur, people need to quit being a wuss and realize the glory that is EVE.


Well, that says something about your moral values. Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. Waffles (and trust me, I'm not a fan) doesn't scam new players. Being a nasty and miserable person isn't part of the "meta," it's just, well...pathetic.



How dare you question my morals based off of hypothetical actions in a video game.

People like you are what's wrong with gaming. You associate gameplay with reality way too much.
Veers appears to be of the "your actions in a video game are a reflection of you in real life" school of thought, which IMHO makes him one of those people that have problems differentiating between fantasy and real life. If you tie that in with his arrogance, despite his evident ignorance, and sense of entitlement there's a while smorgasbord of words we could use to describe him, most of which appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.





Couldn't we just refer to him as a lawyer?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#885 - 2014-10-13 15:23:40 UTC
Trixie Lawless wrote:
Couldn't we just refer to him as a lawyer?
That might be going too far P

I lol'd btw.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Roche Pso
Deltole Research Labs
#886 - 2014-10-13 19:31:18 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Well, that says something about your moral values. Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players. Waffles (and trust me, I'm not a fan) doesn't scam new players. Being a nasty and miserable person isn't part of the "meta," it's just, well...pathetic.


How you play a game says nothing about your moral values. Ganking someone in EVE is no different to bankrupting them in monopoly or checkmating them in chess. In fact, it is not as bad as those two things as it does not put them out of the game it simply returns them to the station where they can pick up and carry on

When you play other games do you always let your opponent win?
Revis Owen
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#887 - 2014-10-13 20:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Revis Owen
Roche Pso wrote:
How you play a game says nothing about your moral values. Ganking someone in EVE is no different to bankrupting them in monopoly or checkmating them in chess.


The types of people who can't separate game from RL often also have trouble understanding or at least accepting as fact that others can. It literally is apart from their experience.

As the saying goes: if you're at the point of having to explain it, he won't understand.

Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#888 - 2014-10-13 20:42:50 UTC
Roche Pso wrote:
How you play a game says nothing about your moral values. Ganking someone in EVE is no different to bankrupting them in monopoly or checkmating them in chess. In fact, it is not as bad as those two things as it does not put them out of the game it simply returns them to the station where they can pick up and carry on

When you play other games do you always let your opponent win?


It's different if you do it in Eve because ~vague, wishy-washy, unspecificied reasons~.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#889 - 2014-10-13 21:01:53 UTC
When you are l337 you don't need no stinking reasons. What you say goes! When you can kill a comet with a cynabal then your opinion matters. Amirite or amirite?!?!

#wtfpwnnubsl337watermelonbbq
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#890 - 2014-10-13 22:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Magnum
It's pure projection when a "victim" of in game crime accuses the perpetrator of out of game moral or ethical lapses, or the inability to differentiate the real world from a game. I know for a fact that I despise suicide bombers, scammers, extortion, and market-fixing in the real world, but I don't care about it in the game because its a fantasy Internet spaceship game. Just because YOU can't help but replicate your out of game ethics or beliefs in game doesn't mean others can't split the fantasy from reality.

The game is a different world with different rules, like literally every other game.

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#891 - 2014-10-13 23:39:38 UTC
Dirk Magnum wrote:
Just because YOU can't help but replicate your out of game ethics or beliefs in game doesn't mean others can't split the fantasy from reality.

The game is a different world with different rules, like literally every other game.


Very much this.

Carebears need to stop trying to inflict their own mental illness on everyone around them.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#892 - 2014-10-14 01:43:03 UTC
I would very much another Veers reply.
The giggles I would make can provide happiness for myself.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#893 - 2014-10-14 04:58:28 UTC
Lots of confusion as usual from the nerf highsec/ganker folks. Some examples:

1. Utilizing known exploits disallowed by the EULA - Titan bumping in a POS, evading CONCORD, etc.... essentially "cheating" to gain an unfair advantage in the game. Doing so certainly shows a deficit in moral values.

2. Using the game to do other bad stuff - harassment, doxing, etc..... Again, a moral values problem.

3. Margin trading scam, etc.... Doing something that you know is misleading, and CCP would fix if it had an easy way to do so. You use the market's appearance of legitimacy to hoodwink new players (vets don't fall for this) into buying worthless junk by posting fraudulent buy orders that you never intend to execute. It's the type of garbage that would 100% land you in jail if done in RL, and adds literally no value to the game. And so yes, doing garbage like that does show a certain lack of moral values.
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#894 - 2014-10-14 06:19:35 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Lots of confusion as usual from the nerf highsec/ganker folks. Some examples:

1. Utilizing known exploits disallowed by the EULA - Titan bumping in a POS, evading CONCORD, etc.... essentially "cheating" to gain an unfair advantage in the game. Doing so certainly shows a deficit in moral values.

2. Using the game to do other bad stuff - harassment, doxing, etc..... Again, a moral values problem.

3. Margin trading scam, etc.... Doing something that you know is misleading, and CCP would fix if it had an easy way to do so. You use the market's appearance of legitimacy to hoodwink new players (vets don't fall for this) into buying worthless junk by posting fraudulent buy orders that you never intend to execute. It's the type of garbage that would 100% land you in jail if done in RL, and adds literally no value to the game. And so yes, doing garbage like that does show a certain lack of moral values.


1: Bullet....
2:Points.

3: YES!

4a: Promote Synergy.
4b: Like a Boss.

5: ???
8.5: Profit.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#895 - 2014-10-14 09:08:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaea Astridsson
Veers Belvar wrote:
Lots of confusion as usual from the nerf highsec/ganker folks.


You seem to be the only confused one in here if we're to be frank.

Veers Belvar wrote:
1. Utilizing known exploits disallowed by the EULA - Titan bumping in a POS, evading CONCORD, etc.... essentially "cheating" to gain an unfair advantage in the game. Doing so certainly shows a deficit in moral values.


I assume you're referring to plain good ol' bumping here. Which in a post right here on same sub-forum been verified as a valid tactic, used in many places in this game. More so than in the process of ganking. Bumping someone INSIDE their own POS shield was however deemed an exploit. Just like evading CONCORD is, and people can can get banned for them.

Dodging faction police and players that don't have the balls to engage suspects, not an exploit.

Veers Belvar wrote:
2. Using the game to do other bad stuff - harassment, doxing, etc..... Again, a moral values problem.


I'm sure there are scammers out there that have taken it too far so it might be labeled harassment. A scammer doxing someone, well that's probably first time I hear it mentioned. And guess what BOTH BANNABLE OFFENCES. Your definition of harassment however might need reviewing before taking the moral high ground.

Veers Belvar wrote:
3. Margin trading scam, etc.... Doing something that you know is misleading, and CCP would fix if it had an easy way to do so. You use the market's appearance of legitimacy to hoodwink new players (vets don't fall for this) into buying worthless junk by posting fraudulent buy orders that you never intend to execute. It's the type of garbage that would 100% land you in jail if done in RL, and adds literally no value to the game. And so yes, doing garbage like that does show a certain lack of moral values.


Thing is, market scams does bring value to the game. And as been stated over and over - this is not a problem for new players so don't even bring that into the discussion. The victim had enough of isk to buy an item well beyond it's worth. Thought she could make quick spacebucks and failed. Pulling a scam off in a game, is not something reflecting your ethics in real life.

Get on Comms, or die typing.
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#896 - 2014-10-14 09:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
There is nothing wrong with using game mechanics to gain an advantage over less intelligent or less savvy players. This is what we call "competition". In major sports, teams will always engage in tactics that walk the line to make themselves better. Some even cheat, lie, and use banned substances. This doesn't make them immoral, it makes them competitive people and it makes them those who aim to win.

This means if you recruit someone for the purpose of scamming them for ISK, there is nothing morally repugnant about that, as frustrating as the experience may be for the victim. It's frustrating to lose a sports game to a team who has found a loophole in the rules, and exploit you for it each time they can. It's frustrating to lose a sports game to an opponent who cheated when the ref wasn't looking. That doesn't make them bad people.

The only thing that lacks morality in EVE culture is tear harvesting. When you do things to other human beings for the purpose of eliciting a reaction out of them for your own enjoyment, you are either a bad and shameful human being or you are sick in the head. This scales upwards based on the perception you have of how the action will affect them. Simple forum troll? Not so bad, don't feel too ashamed. Convo after a gank for tears? You are a douche, sorry to say. Join their corp and pretend to be their friend for 2 weeks, only to kill them for tears? Seek help you freak.

Hey guys.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#897 - 2014-10-14 11:05:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Veers Belvar wrote:
Lots of confusion as usual from the nerf highsec/ganker folks. Some examples:

1. Utilizing known exploits disallowed by the EULA - Titan bumping in a POS, evading CONCORD, etc.... essentially "cheating" to gain an unfair advantage in the game. Doing so certainly shows a deficit in moral values.
The examples you use are bannable offences.

Quote:
2. Using the game to do other bad stuff - harassment, doxing, etc..... Again, a moral values problem.
Once again the examples you use are bannable offences

Quote:
3. Margin trading scam, etc.... Doing something that you know is misleading, and CCP would fix if it had an easy way to do so. You use the market's appearance of legitimacy to hoodwink new players (vets don't fall for this) into buying worthless junk by posting fraudulent buy orders that you never intend to execute. It's the type of garbage that would 100% land you in jail if done in RL, and adds literally no value to the game. And so yes, doing garbage like that does show a certain lack of moral values.
Bullshit, the margin trading scam is not aimed at newbies, it's aimed at players with substantial isk, who are generally not newbies. Stop using false flags to further your pathetic agenda.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Roche Pso
Deltole Research Labs
#898 - 2014-10-14 11:32:33 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

3. Margin trading scam, etc.... .... It's the type of garbage that would 100% land you in jail if done in RL.


This just amazes me. Saying something shouldnt be allowed because it would land you in jail in real life.

if I undocked from my house and blew up my neighbour's car I am pretty sure the police would have something to say to me. So how come I can blow up a player's ship in EVE? Surely this shouldn't be allowed as it is exactly the type of garbage that would result in jail in RL?
Solecist Project
#899 - 2014-10-14 11:42:15 UTC
Roche Pso wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

3. Margin trading scam, etc.... .... It's the type of garbage that would 100% land you in jail if done in RL.


This just amazes me. Saying something shouldnt be allowed because it would land you in jail in real life.

if I undocked from my house and blew up my neighbour's car I am pretty sure the police would have something to say to me. So how come I can blow up a player's ship in EVE? Surely this shouldn't be allowed as it is exactly the type of garbage that would result in jail in RL?
*ROFL*

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#900 - 2014-10-14 15:39:21 UTC
None of you can argue with Swordmasters OK. That level of L337 is not obtainable through peer to peer gameplay. Only those that have conquered "the tiny red cross" technique, spreadsheets, docking up, and giving hugs to space police have the game experience, the guts, and the moral compass to become one with the forums.

All us scrubs need to step aside and let the real player tell us how this PvP game needs to be handled.