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Crime & Punishment

 
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pushing for harder punishment on hi sec gankers

First post
Author
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#861 - 2014-10-12 13:22:32 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Eve Uni (for all my profound disagreements with their hand holding) doesn't scam new players.


No they teach them how to bot instead.


Oh come on....I dislike Eve Uni as much as the next elite PvPer....but the are not some bot organization. They have a good repository of knowledge, and a lot of different campuses and activities. Is there a lot of lame hand holding? Sure. But it's still a much less toxic environment than the Goon scammers.


Your willful ignorance makes the west borough baptist church look reasonable.

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#862 - 2014-10-12 21:06:55 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I managed to earn 500 mil in a month or so of mission running
As a newbie, while you were still bumbling about in frigates and destroyers?

Quote:
and knew nothing about Goons, corporations, etc..... I would have been a prime candidate for scamming
It's such a shame that you were never targeted by the Goons recruitment scam, the forums would have been better all round if you'd been driven out months ago.

Quote:
and that's not how the game should work. Ditto with the margin scams.
That's how it does work, if you don't like it you can leave, make sure to close the door behind you.

Both scams rely on the victim to be dumb and/or greedy. "A fool and his money are soon parted" is as true in Eve as it is in the real world.

Quote:
Also....where is this disclaimer? The first hit i get is goonfleet.net which is a scam website.
The search result may vary depending on your location, it's certainly the first result when using google.co.uk. FYI it's here


More nonsense from you, as usual.

I sat in a battleship within a few weeks of playing, and ran L4s with friends. I was in a Mach before 2 months were out - and still a newbie yes. I'm sure you would have loved for your scammer friends to get me like they get other new players, luckily I was sharp enough to see through the lies and bs. I'm not planning on leaving the game, despite your best efforts to get me to. I'd rather stay in it and advocate for positive change on the forums, the kind that would end these scams and leave you miserable.

The scams really on the appearance of law and order in highsec and in the highsec market, and it is far past time that there was some effective policing involved so that new players don't get ripped off and quit the game.
Casivek Andrard
True Drone Expanse
What Could Possibly Go Wr0ng
#863 - 2014-10-12 22:07:41 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

The scams really on the appearance of law and order in highsec and in the highsec market, and it is far past time that there was some effective policing involved so that new players don't get ripped off and quit the game.


The issue with this is that CCP says that this is the reality high sec is only meant as a place where people start out and others can still scam or make your ship go boom. Only difference is that you can't kill new players in predefined rookie systems, and the aggressor will lose the ship they used to attack the other player. On the note of scams it's rather simple ignore them and look things up before doing something blindly.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#864 - 2014-10-12 22:10:16 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

The scams really on the appearance of law and order in highsec and in the highsec market, and it is far past time that there was some effective policing involved so that new players don't get ripped off and quit the game.


No new player can afford to buy into that scam. It's as simple as that.

Stop using new players as a smokescreen to hide your disgusting risk aversion.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#865 - 2014-10-12 22:44:28 UTC
Seems this discussion been sidetracked. Last I checked title mentioned ganking and nothing about scamming. Only adjustment anywhere near reasonable to ask for in this case is may be a bigger hit on security status. Either way, bad security standings and kill rights are more than enough to allow retribution. Sure you'll probably not be able to exact the same amount of isk damage. But if you cannot take the loss. Don't fly it. Or do, but don't cry when it blows up.

And if neither ganking nor scamming was allowed, game would be kinda dead in the water. Back when I tried running indy I got my kicks of knowing any moment all that hard work could be negated by a single well placed Antimatter charge.

Get on Comms, or die typing.

CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#866 - 2014-10-12 23:28:21 UTC
I feel that with the semi-recent boosts to mining ship's EHP and lows on freighters that there should be a global reduction on the GCC to 5min.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#867 - 2014-10-13 00:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Veers Belvar wrote:

More nonsense from you, as usual.

I sat in a battleship within a few weeks of playing, and ran L4s with friends. I was in a Mach before 2 months were out - and still a newbie yes.
That is not the usual newbie experience and you know it; therefore my point still stands, most newbies, being newbies, don't have access to the kind of isk required to fall victim to the margin trading scam, or recruitment scams

Quote:
I'm sure you would have loved for your scammer friends to get me like they get other new players, luckily I was sharp enough to see through the lies and bs.
See above, most newbies don't have anything worth scamming for.

Quote:
I'm not planning on leaving the game, despite your best efforts to get me to. I'd rather stay in it and advocate for positive change on the forums, the kind that would end these scams and leave you miserable.
What you see as positive change others see as negative change. I've been caught by the margin trading scam myself, and the Phaser Inc. ponzi scheme, and you know who I blame for me getting caught by them? ME.

Quote:
The scams really on the appearance of law and order in highsec and in the highsec market, and it is far past time that there was some effective policing involved so that new players don't get ripped off and quit the game.
If newbies are getting ripped off by recruitment and other assorted scams, which they're not because they generally having nothing worth scamming, and you wish to try and police it then you can.

Calling for CCP to remove stuff that you don't like doesn't count as doing something about those things, that's whining. The sand box works both ways, you can try to be a hero or a villain if you wish to.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#868 - 2014-10-13 07:23:44 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

The scams really on the appearance of law and order in highsec and in the highsec market, and it is far past time that there was some effective policing involved so that new players don't get ripped off and quit the game.


No new player can afford to buy into that scam. It's as simple as that.

Stop using new players as a smokescreen to hide your disgusting risk aversion.


You do realize I've never been scammed right? I'm far too cynical and financially literate to ever get snookered by these jokers. I do feel for other players, many of them relatively new (and yes, month old players can comfortably make 25 mil an hour running SOE L4s with friends, and make 500 mil in 20 hours of mission running), who fall for these scams, lose all their stuff, and ragequit the game. I don't see any redeeming value in this garbage, and am especially concerned by the margin trading scam which uses the eve market to look credible (as opposed to isk doubling which is just an obvious scam, and should not garner much victim sympathy).
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#869 - 2014-10-13 07:25:11 UTC
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote:
I feel that with the semi-recent boosts to mining ship's EHP and lows on freighters that there should be a global reduction on the GCC to 5min.


Absolutely, the recent changes have made it virtually impossible to gank freighters. Even systems like Uedama are safe to autopilot through, and the only way to inject even a modicum of risk into highsec is to drastically reduce any impediments to ganking. Roll
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#870 - 2014-10-13 07:35:38 UTC
Since when is autopiloting anything, anywhere supposed to be safe?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#871 - 2014-10-13 07:42:42 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote:
I feel that with the semi-recent boosts to mining ship's EHP and lows on freighters that there should be a global reduction on the GCC to 5min.


Absolutely, the recent changes have made it virtually impossible to gank freighters. Even systems like Uedama are safe to autopilot through, and the only way to inject even a modicum of risk into highsec is to drastically reduce any impediments to ganking. Roll


We should start a thread regarding this idea!

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#872 - 2014-10-13 07:42:44 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Since when is autopiloting anything, anywhere supposed to be safe?


Personally I think that there should be enough negative consequences for ganking that it is safe to autopilot a 200k+ ehp empty freighter in highsec. Might it get killed once in a blue moon for lolz? Sure. Should it be a virtual death sentence when going through Uedama? No way.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#873 - 2014-10-13 08:00:31 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Since when is autopiloting anything, anywhere supposed to be safe?


Personally I think that there should be enough negative consequences for ganking that it is safe to autopilot a 200k+ ehp empty freighter in highsec. Might it get killed once in a blue moon for lolz? Sure. Should it be a virtual death sentence when going through Uedama? No way.


Then you're playing the wrong game.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#874 - 2014-10-13 08:11:02 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Should it be a virtual death sentence when going through Uedama? No way.


If it is, it's because people have come together as a group to make it so. Never flown freighter but been told a webber friend get you around most often before any bumper gets you dead in the waters.

Do you think a dedicated effort from a group should easily be countered by a single player?

Get on Comms, or die typing.

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#875 - 2014-10-13 10:14:21 UTC
Kaea Astridsson wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Should it be a virtual death sentence when going through Uedama? No way.


If it is, it's because people have come together as a group to make it so. Never flown freighter but been told a webber friend get you around most often before any bumper gets you dead in the waters.

Do you think a dedicated effort from a group should easily be countered by a single player?


Not at all - I just don't think that CONCORD should sit idly by and let Uedama degenerate into the war torn streets of Somalia. I expect the police to take real action against repeat offenders, and to attempt to protect the residents of highsec. I reject the view that Eve is some sort of dystopian society where the police are wholly incapable of punishing those who deserved to be punished, and are additionally incapable of imposing enough deterrence to bring a measure of safety and security to highsec.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#876 - 2014-10-13 10:18:13 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I expect the police to take real action against repeat offenders, and to attempt to protect the residents of highsec.


As a player, this would be your role. Concord only exists to shoot you if you do certain things.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#877 - 2014-10-13 10:22:40 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I don't see any redeeming value in this garbage, and am especially concerned by the margin trading scam which uses the eve market to look credible


I thought you said you were financially literate?

Half or more of the game's economy revolves around that skill.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#878 - 2014-10-13 11:19:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Veers Belvar wrote:
You do realize I've never been scammed right? I'm far too cynical and financially literate to ever get snookered by these jokers.
You're certainly something, those 2 things aren't it though.
Quote:
I do feel for other players, many of them relatively new (and yes, month old players can comfortably make 25 mil an hour running SOE L4s with friends, and make 500 mil in 20 hours of mission running), who fall for these scams, lose all their stuff, and ragequit the game.
Once again, this is not the average newbie experience, and the average newbie has nothing worth scamming. Your "think of the children newbies" spiel is both old, and wrong.
Quote:
I don't see any redeeming value in this garbage,
Stop posting it then
Quote:
and am especially concerned by the margin trading scam which uses the eve market to look credible (as opposed to isk doubling which is just an obvious scam, and should not garner much victim sympathy).
All that is required to avoid the margin trading scam is to not be greedy and to do a little research. I've been guilty of being greedy and not doing the research in the past, as a result I have a container that is marked "you're a fool" containing some very expensive and worthless crap I bought in the hope of a massive profit; and it's entirely my own fault.
Quote:
I reject the view that Eve is some sort of dystopian society where the police are wholly incapable of punishing those who deserved to be punished, and are additionally incapable of imposing enough deterrence to bring a measure of safety and security to highsec.
That's akin to arguing that black is in fact white, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

You keep bleating, we'll keep laughing at your ignorance and pathetic attempts to change a formula that has worked well for the last 11 years.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#879 - 2014-10-13 11:28:48 UTC
oops double posting derp

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#880 - 2014-10-13 12:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaea Astridsson wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Should it be a virtual death sentence when going through Uedama? No way.


If it is, it's because people have come together as a group to make it so. Never flown freighter but been told a webber friend get you around most often before any bumper gets you dead in the waters.

Do you think a dedicated effort from a group should easily be countered by a single player?


Not at all - I just don't think that CONCORD should sit idly by and let Uedama degenerate into the war torn streets of Somalia. I expect the police to take real action against repeat offenders, and to attempt to protect the residents of highsec. I reject the view that Eve is some sort of dystopian society where the police are wholly incapable of punishing those who deserved to be punished, and are additionally incapable of imposing enough deterrence to bring a measure of safety and security to highsec.


Okay then CONCORD should kill all miners that deplete a belt, kill all mission runners that shoot one of the four empires NPCs in their missions, kill anyone that does not clean up their space trash after a mission, and kill frieghters that have not paid the proper tax for hauling those goods. They're taking real action against repeat offenders.

Also you have brain problems if you reject the dystopian society idea, that's literally in the advertising material for the game.

You highsec pubbies are so busy squabbling over the tiniest of things, like being aware while hauling, that there is no society. No one works together and instead lives in their own little bubble until someone comes along to invade it. Then they whinge endlessly on the forums about how they are right and this needs to change now and how no you other people with differing opinions are never right because I can't possibly ever be wrong.

Contrast that with nullsec where we do work together to create some semblance of safety, yet are rewarded far less than you in highsec are when you are given safety. We even work with people we don't like *cough*SMA*cough* in order to maintain this. If anything its time for highsec to get rebalanced and put back where it belongs.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133