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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7941 - 2014-10-09 06:08:46 UTC
KayleInara wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:


And you wonder why CCP didn't even bother to give you a memo on these changes?
Lol

You and baltar1 should start a club.

I don't know what's more sad; that you posted this seriously or that you thought anyone would buy it.


What an amazingly well thought out and reasoned post in response to a long explanation of an alternative to the system proposed in the Dev blog.

I will admit though, that I am left somewhat confused as to what exactly you think is wrong with the proposal you are supposedly rebutting, or indeed what your preferred solution (other than Sh$t posting) might possibly be.

Some people actually think it might be nice to be able to move around their home region reasonably well, while allowing for the restriction of long-distance 'power projection', which is what I understood to be the entire point of this proposed change.

It seems that there are a large number of people in this thread who actually think that what should happen is that the lives of everyone in null should be made painful, yet I can't see how that particular course would benefit the game or CCP in the long term.


Oh lay off it. Shovel that stuff somewhere the pile won't so easily be seen.

The point is obvious. To mitigate and nullify the purpose of the changes, which is localization of space.

I'm sure it's nice to be able to cover your home region(s). And as you and your friends have so painfully and repeatidly remarked, these changes will allegedly have no impact on that. So no worries right?

The changes don't go far enough imo. But then again I probably wouldn't be completely happy unless they just deleted cyno mechanics altogether.

The suggestion is a step in the wrong direction.
And it's made for utterly obvious reasons.

"The change goes too far", "none of this matters to us"
it doesn't really matter which side of the mouth you and your friends want to talk out of. It's easy to see you're all nervous in the service.

And while you can spin and sell it however you wish you all know as well as I that the further these nerfs drive localization the more likely it will be you will not be able to maintain your BFFs over the long term.

"grrr goons" lololol Lol

Everyone is always looking out for their own best interests. The metagaming blocs most of all. The only people that buy the "these suggestions are noble and for the good of the game" crap your lot tries to shovel is yourselves.

But then again, that's half your groups problem right there.
You spend so much time slurping down your own koolaid you can't even taste it anymore. Roll

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7942 - 2014-10-09 06:23:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Hahaha.

Not a bad attempt.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
The only people that buy the "these suggestions are noble and for the good of the game" crap your lot tries to shovel is yourselves.

Heh.

"Noble"?? You're looking for elite pvp on the other side of nullsec

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tikitina
Doomheim
#7943 - 2014-10-09 06:27:09 UTC
The "...this will only make us more powerful..." "...but you should really change this lame idea..." thing has been entertaining to watch you must admit.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7944 - 2014-10-09 06:27:39 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Hahaha.

Not a bad attempt.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
The only people that buy the "these suggestions are noble and for the good of the game" crap your lot tries to shovel is yourselves.

Heh.

"Noble"?? You're looking for elite pvp on the other side of nullsec


~damage control~

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7945 - 2014-10-09 06:29:33 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
The "...this will only make us more powerful..." "...but you should really change this lame idea..." thing has been entertaining to watch you must admit.



I'd call it cognitive dissonance.

But to be nice, it's got to be hard keeping up with The Mittani's straw grasping and desperate attempts at meta message control.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7946 - 2014-10-09 06:36:17 UTC
Kiwinoob wrote:
Frango Mint wrote:
With the limited range of JF, living in null for industry will be nearly impossible. No way will I fly a multi billion isk ship through a gate just hoping that there won't be a gank party waiting for me, all because of this patch.


I'm no null sec expert but I thought jumping blind through a gate was a bad idea for anyone under any circumstances. This isn't just limited to a JF

Why not just get a mate or corp member to scout like everyone else if you absolutely have to use a gate?

If only every capital, in the system it just jumped into, had a scout....
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7947 - 2014-10-09 06:40:58 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Tikitina wrote:
The "...this will only make us more powerful..." "...but you should really change this lame idea..." thing has been entertaining to watch you must admit.

I'd call it cognitive dissonance.

But to be nice, it's got to be hard keeping up with The Mittani's straw grasping and desperate attempts at meta message control.

No not really.

It is hard to keep up with who has --totally been revived and is about to destroy the cfc (after the patch)-- though.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7948 - 2014-10-09 06:51:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Frango Mint wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
kxdan wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Are you guys high?

No seriously, have any of the people who came up with these changes ever played Eve before?

You've just killed off nullsec logistics singlehandedly. You've just made the minimum requirement to be in null the ability to fly an interceptor. You've just killed black ops fleets. You've made it impossible to enter half the regions in the game without using a gate. You've just made it impossible to live in most of the NPC null regions. You've not restricted capital fights, you've eliminated them from the game entirely.

Are we being trolled? Are you trying to kill off your own game?



^ This



Agreed. As I previously calculated, the Jita -> Outer Passage route now takes 24x longer. That is a >95% nerf to its capabilities. If the changes as proposed go live, jump freighters will have 1/24 of their M3Lightyears / Unit Time.

That will kill galactic trade. Logistics pilots are right to be raging and unsubbing en masse.


Living in Outer Passage, I can't help but agree. Having been a veteran of several years of Null Sec PVP and Sov Wars, I had decided to move out to OP and rent for a while to work on some industrial goals. Now, OP will be near impossible to live in, being so far from Low Sec / High Sec. As far as building a local market, I don't see that as being possible, since the sheer variety of materials is what makes Jita a viable market, that will be impossible to recreate 30 times over all over null sec. Will I be unsubbing my 7 accounts with over 885M SP? Well, I have retreated to high sec and will see what the game looks like in January or so. That is about $1K in real life savings for me in 2015. Maybe this patch is the motivation to drop this game like a bad habit.


Yeah because Jita is the only hub there is the entirety of EvE , funny though that there are trade hubs in other places, years back some alliance managed to to build stuff IN NULL without JF. A trade hub does not need to have any possible mod in eve as long as it has enough of each mod category to make it possible to buy and fit ships or to get what you need for your other activities ABD as long as there are enough people who buy and sell and that can be accomplished throughout all of New Eden in countless systems. It´s the same whine and the same tears people produce when they got locked out of Jita because of mass traffic and they felt like the sky is falling completely ignorant of the fact that there are other trade hubs in EvE.

If you actually had 7 accounts with 885m so would that not mean that you could practically do everything on your own? From research over mining, production to pvp or do you have 6 ISboxer bots for anom running and a JF alt to haul all you lewt to Jita? And about the 1k$ somehow I doubt that little story as well since you are probably hard core anom running/ratting to run all your accounts with plex and when the hauling business gets more tedious you can´t spend as much time hard core PVEing and thats the real complaint you have here isn´t it ?

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7949 - 2014-10-09 06:54:05 UTC
Elsa Hayes wrote:
years back some alliance managed to to build stuff IN NULL without JF.

Which alliance is this, did their superior resource management lead them to success?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#7950 - 2014-10-09 07:35:11 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
The "...this will only make us more powerful..." "...but you should really change this lame idea..." thing has been entertaining to watch you must admit.




Well try this on for size. I play this game for ISK. I'm a capitalist. I've got a couple of alts playing with old friends in a small alliance in null these days and have seen my share of sov grinding, but that's just for fun. You know what?

A) My bottom line is going to be fine.

B) This wont affect the general political-economic dynamic of nullsec at ALL.

Personally I don't care what CCP does. Screw the megacorps, screw the whinebears, and screw the trolls. I'm gonna make Isk, buy my shiny toys, and do my best to find profit where others only find pain. I'm already buying up stuff that will be hard to come by later. Eve mail me when it gets bad, maybe I'll put you on my customer list .

The collateral damage from this update will far outweigh its 'fail' magnitude. This monkey-with-a-hand-grenade development approach - messing with ONE SPECIFIC GAME MECHANIC to solve what is essentially a player motivation problem, then turning your back, closing your eyes, and sticking your fingers in your ears, while praying it doesn't blow everything all to hell- doesn't just smack of unprofessionalism, it looks like CCP is thumbing it's nose at paying customers who spent years and years of training time to play in their flagship shiny toys.

Slow cat cap fleets that can now crawl thru gates and near perfect logistical interdiction at choke points will ultimately lead to one thing.

Another BoB.

Remember BoB? the Alliance that almost ate the game?

What if there were only ONE big block? EXACTLY the opposite of what is intended?

Juuuuust sit right back and you'll hear a tale,

a tale of a fateful trip,

That started from a tropic port

aboard this tiny ship.

The mate was a mighty sailing man.............

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7951 - 2014-10-09 07:42:44 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Hey CCP, you should probably look into disallowing ascendancy implants and hyperspatial accelerators from effecting capital class ships for the detailed reasons provided here.

He didn't factor in TiDi...

...
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7952 - 2014-10-09 08:03:17 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Frango Mint wrote:
With the limited range of JF, living in null for industry will be nearly impossible. No way will I fly a multi billion isk ship through a gate just hoping that there won't be a gank party waiting for me, all because of this patch.

I guess the time before jump drives, carriers and jump freighters where people lived in deep null actually didn't happen. I mean I was pretty sure industry was happening there as well. All those times escorting freighters, mining, hunting NPC haulers, fighting off invaders, almost losing my first carrier warping to a gate trying to solo... an interdictor... It was all just a dream...

Ugh

People just got fat and lazy, where actual change for the better is often considered bad when they have to put /effort./

...
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#7953 - 2014-10-09 08:04:09 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Elsa Hayes wrote:
Yeah because Jita is the only hub there is the entirety of EvE , funny though that there are trade hubs in other places, years back some alliance managed to to build stuff IN NULL without JF. A trade hub does not need to have any possible mod in eve as long as it has enough of each mod category to make it possible to buy and fit ships or to get what you need for your other activities ABD as long as there are enough people who buy and sell and that can be accomplished throughout all of New Eden in countless systems. It´s the same whine and the same tears people produce when they got locked out of Jita because of mass traffic and they felt like the sky is falling completely ignorant of the fact that there are other trade hubs in EvE.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.There is still a whole host of items in the game that are either NPC-seeded, incredibly inefficient to source locally, or don't scale at all well at hubs of less than a few thousand people. There's a good reason why you won't find some of these items at Amarr or Rens, let alone in null-sec.


  • Core minerals
  • Moon minerals (especially regional ones)
  • Ice products and racial Isotopes
  • Infrastructure upgrades (ihub modules)
  • Implants
  • BPOs
  • Skillbooks
  • Efficient blueprint copies
  • High meta-level items
  • Various T3 production materials


Yes there have been cases of deep nullsec alliances running trade hubs on the edge of the map. The vast majority of these attempts have been run by one of two types of people:
1) Those without any military nous who were therefore quickly overrun by aggressors, or
2) Alliance directors operating elaborate pyramid schemes to prey on members by controlling all import avenues and massively price-gouging everything.

We're still a long way from nullsec being anywhere near sustainable without daily access to empire. It would have been nice if CCP had made a little effort to make these outer regions a bit more livable before cutting off their lifeline. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7954 - 2014-10-09 08:10:55 UTC
Polo Marco wrote:


Juuuuust sit right back and you'll hear a tale,

a tale of a fateful trip,

That started from a tropic port

aboard this tiny ship.

The mate was a mighty sailing man.............


I found it amusing that I'm watching Gilligan's Island, and the theme song played exactly as I read that!

...
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#7955 - 2014-10-09 08:16:13 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Countdown to page 400, and 8000 posts! WOOO!


Also CCP you need to give another response now. Sorry but you have to, you cant be silent forever.


Thread is about half way through its journey to overtake the nearly 15 thousand post Incarna threadnaught. You people need to type louder!
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#7956 - 2014-10-09 08:17:03 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:


Juuuuust sit right back and you'll hear a tale,

a tale of a fateful trip,

That started from a tropic port

aboard this tiny ship.

The mate was a mighty sailing man.............


I found it amusing that I'm watching Gilligan's Island, and the theme song played exactly as I read that!



.......The skipper brave and sure

Five passengers set sail that day

for a three hour tour

a three hour tour..... A THREE HOUR TOUR.... ATHREE HOUR TOUR........ ahhh..........

have a nice ride Eve.. don't mind the storm..... O_O

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7957 - 2014-10-09 08:18:58 UTC
Polo Marco wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:


Juuuuust sit right back and you'll hear a tale,

a tale of a fateful trip,

That started from a tropic port

aboard this tiny ship.

The mate was a mighty sailing man.............


I found it amusing that I'm watching Gilligan's Island, and the theme song played exactly as I read that!



.......The skipper brave and sure

Five passengers set sail that day

for a three hour tour

a three hour tour..... A THREE HOUR TOUR.... ATHREE HOUR TOUR........ ahhh..........

have a nice ride Eve.. don't mind the storm..... O_O


.....and being stuck on a deserted Island because of 1 ******** for 20 odd years!

...
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#7958 - 2014-10-09 08:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Polo Marco
mistyped

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#7959 - 2014-10-09 08:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Polo Marco
Polo Marco wrote:

.....and being stuck on a deserted Island because of 1 ******** for 20 odd years!



NP ask the Professor, he'll know what to do...........

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7960 - 2014-10-09 08:26:29 UTC
Polo Marco wrote:
Quote:

.....and being stuck on a deserted Island because of 1 ******** for 20 odd years!



NP ask the Professor, he'll know what to do........

Until Gilligan uses a Radio Transmitter as bait...

...