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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7921 - 2014-10-09 02:52:08 UTC
Frango Mint wrote:
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Frango Mint wrote:
Living in Outer Passage, I can't help but agree. Having been a veteran of several years of Null Sec PVP and Sov Wars, I had decided to move out to OP and rent for a while to work on some industrial goals. Now, OP will be near impossible to live in, being so far from Low Sec / High Sec. As far as building a local market, I don't see that as being possible, since the sheer variety of materials is what makes Jita a viable market, that will be impossible to recreate 30 times over all over null sec. Will I be unsubbing my 7 accounts with over 885M SP? Well, I have retreated to high sec and will see what the game looks like in January or so. That is about $1K in real life savings for me in 2015. Maybe this patch is the motivation to drop this game like a bad habit.

Then don't go live in Outer Passage.

When no one wants to live there, someone who wants to live there will come along and settle there.


With the limited range of JF, living in null for industry will be nearly impossible. No way will I fly a multi billion isk ship through a gate just hoping that there won't be a gank party waiting for me, all because of this patch.

then dont. Get your resources nearby (plenty of cyno alts just lost a job), get friends, use wh, use long route, do something that you aren't currently doing. It'll be harder than before, yes, but not impossible, and not improbable.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7922 - 2014-10-09 02:52:37 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
So i can now confirm these changes have been blown out of proportion
Currently they are live on SISI ( ranges have not yet been nerfed, JF's are under TODO lockdown for the moment )
Working to drastically increase fatigue but on a 2 hour+ timer i had a drive cooldown of 12 minutes, which is about how long it would take me to move a cyno or get up and take a bio break or grab another beer.

I actually think now having seen and tested these myself that these will be more than live-able for null and low sec everywhere and dont require any additional tweaks i can think of. And given that my tests are with a carrier and not a JF the 90% fatigue reduction will make jump freighters easy street

Good to hear.

Thanks for testing null and low sec everywhere


Seriously. Do a Jita run from Period Basis or Cobalt Edge.

It's amazing how short that route gets when you take a couple interregional jump gates.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#7923 - 2014-10-09 02:55:13 UTC
Celly S wrote:
Still you have a multi billion isk ship at higher risk and with no support unless you manage to fill it full if battle skiffs, and even then, it's pissing away good isks on a poor plan when other capitals are cheaper and have more DPS and more tanking ability.

If we only had an example of a place where people live without being able to haul in stuff with freighters.

Such an imaginary place would be called vurmhule-space if it existed.

Nyan
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7924 - 2014-10-09 03:05:44 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
So i can now confirm these changes have been blown out of proportion
Currently they are live on SISI ( ranges have not yet been nerfed, JF's are under TODO lockdown for the moment )
Working to drastically increase fatigue but on a 2 hour+ timer i had a drive cooldown of 12 minutes, which is about how long it would take me to move a cyno or get up and take a bio break or grab another beer.

I actually think now having seen and tested these myself that these will be more than live-able for null and low sec everywhere and dont require any additional tweaks i can think of. And given that my tests are with a carrier and not a JF the 90% fatigue reduction will make jump freighters easy street

Good to hear.

Thanks for testing null and low sec everywhere


Seriously. Do a Jita run from Period Basis or Cobalt Edge.

It's amazing how short that route gets when you take a couple interregional jump gates.

Tell you tell me which ones? It's for, er...

"logistics planning"

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frango Mint
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7925 - 2014-10-09 03:17:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Frango Mint
Rowells wrote:
Frango Mint wrote:
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Frango Mint wrote:
Living in Outer Passage, I can't help but agree. Having been a veteran of several years of Null Sec PVP and Sov Wars, I had decided to move out to OP and rent for a while to work on some industrial goals. Now, OP will be near impossible to live in, being so far from Low Sec / High Sec. As far as building a local market, I don't see that as being possible, since the sheer variety of materials is what makes Jita a viable market, that will be impossible to recreate 30 times over all over null sec. Will I be unsubbing my 7 accounts with over 885M SP? Well, I have retreated to high sec and will see what the game looks like in January or so. That is about $1K in real life savings for me in 2015. Maybe this patch is the motivation to drop this game like a bad habit.

Then don't go live in Outer Passage.

When no one wants to live there, someone who wants to live there will come along and settle there.


With the limited range of JF, living in null for industry will be nearly impossible. No way will I fly a multi billion isk ship through a gate just hoping that there won't be a gank party waiting for me, all because of this patch.

then dont. Get your resources nearby (plenty of cyno alts just lost a job), get friends, use wh, use long route, do something that you aren't currently doing. It'll be harder than before, yes, but not impossible, and not improbable.

It actually is much closer to impossible then you say - the number of low sec systems that are less than 5LY from a station system in null is very low - and since you can't fit a cloak on a freighter - good luck jumping into a non station system. The fatigue is a hassle - it's the range nerf that is a killer.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7926 - 2014-10-09 03:42:25 UTC
Celly S wrote:
and I finally saw the stealth "remove local" post.... :(


Where?
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7927 - 2014-10-09 03:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Frango Mint wrote:
With the limited range of JF, living in null for industry will be nearly impossible. No way will I fly a multi billion isk ship through a gate just hoping that there won't be a gank party waiting for me, all because of this patch.

I guess the time before jump drives, carriers and jump freighters where people lived in deep null actually didn't happen. I mean I was pretty sure industry was happening there as well. All those times escorting freighters, mining, hunting NPC haulers, fighting off invaders, almost losing my first carrier warping to a gate trying to solo... an interdictor... It was all just a dream...

Ugh
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7928 - 2014-10-09 04:06:41 UTC
Frango Mint wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Frango Mint wrote:
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Frango Mint wrote:
Living in Outer Passage, I can't help but agree. Having been a veteran of several years of Null Sec PVP and Sov Wars, I had decided to move out to OP and rent for a while to work on some industrial goals. Now, OP will be near impossible to live in, being so far from Low Sec / High Sec. As far as building a local market, I don't see that as being possible, since the sheer variety of materials is what makes Jita a viable market, that will be impossible to recreate 30 times over all over null sec. Will I be unsubbing my 7 accounts with over 885M SP? Well, I have retreated to high sec and will see what the game looks like in January or so. That is about $1K in real life savings for me in 2015. Maybe this patch is the motivation to drop this game like a bad habit.

Then don't go live in Outer Passage.

When no one wants to live there, someone who wants to live there will come along and settle there.


With the limited range of JF, living in null for industry will be nearly impossible. No way will I fly a multi billion isk ship through a gate just hoping that there won't be a gank party waiting for me, all because of this patch.

then dont. Get your resources nearby (plenty of cyno alts just lost a job), get friends, use wh, use long route, do something that you aren't currently doing. It'll be harder than before, yes, but not impossible, and not improbable.

It actually is much closer to impossible then you say - the number of low sec systems that are less than 5LY from a station system in null is very low - and since you can't fit a cloak on a freighter - good luck jumping into a non station system. The fatigue is a hassle - it's the range nerf that is a killer.

you seem to still be stuck on the idea that if it doesn't come in a jump freighter it wont come at all. which is not the case. I understand not everything can be obtained locally. You can still use the JF. It wont be easy as before nor as safe. but still completely possible.

Someone will say that it will be impossible for small groups to live in deep null. It will be extremely difficult to keep up the exact same style of play but there are always options. The most lucrative one being to move to somewhere better suited for your operations.

If you keep trying to do things the same way as you did before the patch you will be giving yourself a disadvantage.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#7929 - 2014-10-09 04:10:40 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Frango Mint wrote:
With the limited range of JF, living in null for industry will be nearly impossible. No way will I fly a multi billion isk ship through a gate just hoping that there won't be a gank party waiting for me, all because of this patch.

I guess the time before jump drives, carriers and jump freighters where people lived in deep null actually didn't happen. I mean I was pretty sure industry was happening there as well. All those times escorting freighters, mining, hunting NPC haulers, fighting off invaders, almost losing my first carrier warping to a gate trying to solo... an interdictor... It was all just a dream...

Ugh


Sure the time before Capitals and freighters happened. It was called 2003 and 2004 and 10K login was still a gleam in the eye of CCP. A blob was 50 people, being a billionaire meant something and we still ratted in belts.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#7930 - 2014-10-09 04:18:42 UTC
I look forward to see capitals taking gates! Big smile
I think that will bring some fun back to NS...

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#7931 - 2014-10-09 04:19:48 UTC
Quote:
If we only had an example of a place where people live without being able to haul in stuff with freighters.


Ya, we haul crap in with a freighter all the time. Literally every direct high-sec, occasional direct low-secs, and sometimes even HS/LS in the static. The volume of stuff we have to haul in (POS fuel and modules being the biggest bear (1 large POS = 144,000 m3 per month in fuel), but unassembled hulls are a thing too), and especially the volume of stuff to haul out (all dat gas and PI) means that even DSTs aren't really terribly practical.

Sure, I can do it without collapsing the wormhole, but it also takes me 15 times as long. We use a DST for some stuff, but we *definitely* use a freighter, even in WH. Before this change was announced, the corp was even contemplating a corp-owned JF so we could utilize our more remote LS and NPC NS holes for hauling.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7932 - 2014-10-09 04:33:20 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Celly S wrote:
Still you have a multi billion isk ship at higher risk and with no support unless you manage to fill it full if battle skiffs, and even then, it's pissing away good isks on a poor plan when other capitals are cheaper and have more DPS and more tanking ability.

If we only had an example of a place where people live without being able to haul in stuff with freighters.

Such an imaginary place would be called vurmhule-space if it existed.

More power to the 200 people on earth who enjoy that game.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#7933 - 2014-10-09 04:37:50 UTC
1 month fatigue is probably too low of a cap to be a deterrent. I'd go with 2 months personally.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7934 - 2014-10-09 04:38:48 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
1 month fatigue is probably too low of a cap to be a deterrent. I'd go with 2 months personally.

A most excellent troll Twisted
Kiwinoob
Perkone
Caldari State
#7935 - 2014-10-09 04:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiwinoob
Frango Mint wrote:
With the limited range of JF, living in null for industry will be nearly impossible. No way will I fly a multi billion isk ship through a gate just hoping that there won't be a gank party waiting for me, all because of this patch.


I'm no null sec expert but I thought jumping blind through a gate was a bad idea for anyone under any circumstances. This isn't just limited to a JF

Why not just get a mate or corp member to scout like everyone else if you absolutely have to use a gate?

Devs are nothing more than machines that turn coffee into code. The quality of the code is inversly proportional to the quality of the coffee.
Tikitina
Doomheim
#7936 - 2014-10-09 04:50:02 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Celly S wrote:
Still you have a multi billion isk ship at higher risk and with no support unless you manage to fill it full if battle skiffs, and even then, it's pissing away good isks on a poor plan when other capitals are cheaper and have more DPS and more tanking ability.

If we only had an example of a place where people live without being able to haul in stuff with freighters.

Such an imaginary place would be called vurmhule-space if it existed.



Some players get used to playing one way and can't conceive of another. These usually are the newer ones that haven't had CCP kick the table over on their gameplay before.
Kiwinoob
Perkone
Caldari State
#7937 - 2014-10-09 05:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiwinoob
tl;dr - boring anecdote

I once had to move 500 retaining wall blocks about 20 meters down my drive. I had ten mates helping. We started by grabbing blocks and walking the whole way ourselves. Drop the block, go back for another.

Eventually people got tired and we could no longer walk the whole way. Instead we made a chain of people, each moving the blocks 2m before handing off to the next person.

Turned out that even though each person was moving far less distance - we were still moving the same number of blocks as before.

HINT: The 'friends' are like JF

Devs are nothing more than machines that turn coffee into code. The quality of the code is inversly proportional to the quality of the coffee.
Neutron Dreams
Duty.
Brave Collective
#7938 - 2014-10-09 05:17:16 UTC
I think a lot of this really is an initial knee jerk reaction, and a drastic change in current game play. I admit i was displeased when I heard of the distance nerf.... but I also did not think it was a reason to quit. Just a reason to sell my two carriers, dread, and my Depot of topes, and wait for emerging game play to solidify.

I have been around awhile. I played before titan bridges, and I remember a time.. well heck many times we had to move ships into position over many many many jumps before the festivities started. (gods the monotony of this was the most painful part lol 30 jumps each way was harsh! lol) This really just kind of resets game play.

I do think it will give defenders somewhat of an advantage, but as has been mentioned many times, it will require logistics, and tactical planning for assaulting bastions of sovereignty. It will mean the side with the good logistical, AND defensive/ attack plan will win the day (most likely unless private murphy shows up)


I hope it does get fixed though ( the stagnation) Null actually used to be a lot of fun. I would like to see it return to being fun, and not just grind after grind.

We had easier logistics and deployment for awhile, now its time for some harder days. those like the reed will flourish, those like the mighty oak will most likely be felled. It is always good to know when to be the reed, and when to be the oak.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#7939 - 2014-10-09 05:22:34 UTC
Countdown to page 400, and 8000 posts! WOOO!


Also CCP you need to give another response now. Sorry but you have to, you cant be silent forever.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#7940 - 2014-10-09 05:23:36 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
1 month fatigue is probably too low of a cap to be a deterrent. I'd go with 2 months personally.

Smile Actually I'd second that, since the people that are ignorant enough to let it get to those levels really shouldn't be flying caps around anyway.

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