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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Brittney Calm
Escape from Darkness
#7821 - 2014-10-08 19:11:49 UTC
Kilab Gercias wrote:
First Test on Sisi.

Titan Jump Bridge also the Titan gets the Timer for Bridging.


Confirmed.

Bridging a fleet gets the fleet fatigue timer, and even though the titan did NOT jump he has fatigue as well.

-BC
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#7822 - 2014-10-08 19:18:20 UTC
Dream Five wrote:

If you can achieve the same goal with a simpler formula that's a strictly better solution.


<= Not a Goon supporter (seriously!) but if there's someone smart enough to suggest improvements to CCP in complicated matters it's Mynna or Aryth.

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Ocih
Space Mermaids
#7823 - 2014-10-08 19:20:39 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:
I feel like taking your own alliance's bridges in a subcap should have reduced fatigue, but I'm out of time at the moment to coherently word why.

unfortunately that would be equivalent to just reducing jump bridge fatigue across the board as we coalesce into one alliance


I think it's more to do with the mechanic and Titan using the same mechanic as the JB networks. I won't be surprised of JB networks get a modifier on the array once the base numbers are established.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7824 - 2014-10-08 19:22:22 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
No. It's an example of a CSM member trying to water down a much needed change so it has little to no effect on the current situation.

i'd like to point out how much reasoned thought marlona was able to put into his one-sentence reply to multiple paragraphs of well-reasoned argument

how can you not be convinced by marlona's screeching that anyone doing anything is plotting against everyone
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7825 - 2014-10-08 19:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Retar Aveymone
Vald Tegor wrote:

Note the difference between power projection via a Coalition jumpbridge network and moving a subcap fleet around your own sov.

I feel like taking your own alliance's bridges in a subcap should have reduced fatigue, but I'm out of time at the moment to coherently word why.

Mynnna's solution basically means you can move around the region you're in with jbs easily, but not three regions away regardless of who owns the jb. That's the goal: local travel is made easier, long-distance harder. If the long distance is your sov, your allies, or hostile territory isn't as important.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7826 - 2014-10-08 19:33:43 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
No. It's an example of a CSM member trying to water down a much needed change so it has little to no effect on the current situation.

i'd like to point out how much reasoned thought marlona was able to put into his one-sentence reply to multiple paragraphs of well-reasoned argument

how can you not be convinced by marlona's screeching that anyone doing anything is plotting against everyone


I never said anyone. But feel free to continue to put words in my mouth.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7827 - 2014-10-08 19:35:34 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I never said anyone. But feel free to continue to put words in my mouth.


Do those words start with a P and end with an S?
















(power projection nerfs?)
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#7828 - 2014-10-08 19:41:02 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Dream Five wrote:

If you can achieve the same goal with a simpler formula that's a strictly better solution.


<= Not a Goon supporter (seriously!) but if there's someone smart enough to suggest improvements to CCP in complicated matters it's Mynna or Aryth.


There's really nothing to argue about here, not sure what your point is :)
Daniel Westelius
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#7829 - 2014-10-08 19:47:04 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
No. It's an example of a CSM member trying to water down a much needed change so it has little to no effect on the current situation.

i'd like to point out how much reasoned thought marlona was able to put into his one-sentence reply to multiple paragraphs of well-reasoned argument

how can you not be convinced by marlona's screeching that anyone doing anything is plotting against everyone


I never said anyone. But feel free to continue to put words in my mouth.


Marlona, really? Must we play this game?
You have stated multiple times that you are not in favor of modifying any of CCP's proposed changes, except for some VERY minor tweaks here and there.
Therefore, you are against ANYONE who proposes any alternative methods to fixing force projection other than the one offered by CCP.
If my assertion is incorrect please cite your evidence, and I offer my apologies, thank you.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7830 - 2014-10-08 19:49:52 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I never said anyone. But feel free to continue to put words in my mouth.


Do those words start with a P and end with an S?

(power projection nerfs?)

Take a step back and come to the sharp realization the the Dev team working on this refuses to listen or talk to the CSM.

Now think of why they refuse to?

The Nullsec CSMs have a nasty history with putting their interests before anything else.

Also, remember that if we have a "anti-CSM" CCP team on our hands in charge of changing the most boring and player caused-stagnented area of the game. What the CSM says here, will have little impact on the final outcome.

Remember kiddies... CCP is a business here to make money! If the player base is bored to ever lasting **** with how the end game has evolved....to the point of quitting and costing CCP money in the end. They will happily **** over the powers at be, let them cry and moan, and ignore their hand picked "Politicians" (Remember that nullsec entities "trade votes with one another to make sure they get the inside scoop.) who's sole purpose is to push an agenda..........then all the power to them!


KEEP IT UP CCP!!!

...
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7831 - 2014-10-08 19:54:07 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:

Take a step back and come to the sharp realization the the Dev team working on this refuses to listen or talk to the CSM.

Now think of why they refuse to?

The Nullsec CSMs have a nasty history with putting their interests before anything else.

Also, remember that if we have a "anti-CSM" CCP team on our hands in charge of changing the most boring and player caused-stagnented area of the game. What the CSM says here, will have little impact on the final outcome.

Remember kiddies... CCP is a business here to make money! If the player base is bored to ever lasting **** with how the end game has evolved....to the point of quitting and costing CCP money in the end. They will happily **** over the powers at be, let them cry and moan, and ignore their hand picked "Politicians" (Remember that nullsec entities "trade votes with one another to make sure they get the inside scoop.) who's sole purpose is to push an agenda..........then all the power to them!


KEEP IT UP CCP!!!

marlona stop posting on an alt
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7832 - 2014-10-08 19:56:57 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:

marlona stop posting on an alt

She wishes she had access to my smexy ass...Twisted

...
big miker
Frogleap Factories
#7833 - 2014-10-08 19:57:09 UTC
This is how it looks like when a Archon jumps through a stargate.
I find it hilarious Big smile

Youtube Archon Gate-travel

Latest video: Ferocious 9.0 - Vertical Supremacy

Nano Naglfar!
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7834 - 2014-10-08 19:59:12 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Vald Tegor wrote:

Note the difference between power projection via a Coalition jumpbridge network and moving a subcap fleet around your own sov.

I feel like taking your own alliance's bridges in a subcap should have reduced fatigue, but I'm out of time at the moment to coherently word why.

Mynnna's solution basically means you can move around the region you're in with jbs easily, but not three regions away regardless of who owns the jb. That's the goal: local travel is made easier, long-distance harder. If the long distance is your sov, your allies, or hostile territory isn't as important.

So if your group has multiple regions the only thing that slightly slows you down is taking the gate that connects you to the next region. Effectively creating rapid travel over lots of regions controlled. This is just plain bad and undermines the entire reason for the change CCP is doing. A perfect example of what I am talking about in regards to Mynnna.

The argument that short range travel should be easy is deceptive because what each person considers short range compared to long range. That is why there is a gradual change starting with the first light year and continuing from there. Arguments that 'anywhere in a region(s) our group controls is short range' is absolutely asinine when said group controls half the damn map.
The Darknec
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7835 - 2014-10-08 20:03:57 UTC
Here is a thought on this timer thing and what not, you want to slow movement that's obvious.

Why not make it to where for a 5ly jump it takes say 10min of your cool little wormhole effect before you land on where the cyno had been. Then have another 5 min or so cool down before you could make another jump.

I'm looking at this from the aspect of casual players that are not going to want to wait for a fleet to move through gates or for a wormholer that is trying to move his new cap across space to a hole. Having hour long jump cool downs and day long cool downs will make it virtually impossible to move stuff around without having a ready support fleet at hand at all times and then praying you dont run into a bubbled up gate camp with a cap.

Very least make it to where only a hic can stop warp drive on caps that way not everyone in a frig can hold you put for a gang to get there and make them immune to anchored bubbles.

You will have to find a way too stop the massive drop batphone fleets without hurting small scale movement.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7836 - 2014-10-08 20:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Retar Aveymone
Marlona Sky wrote:

So if your group has multiple regions the only thing that slightly slows you down is taking the gate that connects you to the next region. Effectively creating rapid travel over lots of regions controlled. This is just plain bad and undermines the entire reason for the change CCP is doing. A perfect example of what I am talking about in regards to Mynnna.

nope

as expected, you are not able to comprehend math and you do not understand what mynnna proposed one bit

the instant you start using a jb in the next region after taking a region-gate you would be suffering massive fatigue because you are now far from your orgin. what you are suggesting could not happen, and you should be embarrassed you made a personal attack on someone for a mechanics proposal you did not understand

a perfect example of what I was talking about: your sole ability to judge an idea is your paranoid fantasy everyone is out to get you
Matthew Strats
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7837 - 2014-10-08 20:10:24 UTC
Just a small comment by a small casual gamer. Just got back to EVE after finally seeing CCP give it some effort and not be afraid of change and the dusty old players that want their hard core game ... I hope you don't lose your balls again CCP.

I joined because of the Station Game Promise... which ... well was not followed through ... at least you are trying now to make the game fun again and I also see the effort being put into getting new players... continue ... don't let you guys get afraid of some big shot reputation players that have no life ... and start to build your future... not your grave... .

Dont mess up again this time ... or you will lose my accounts for good.

@all players... I don't care about your opinion .... I will not revisit the thread ... I don't read IM ... be good boys and go waste your time on someone else... or not .... don't care.

All the best,
Matt
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7838 - 2014-10-08 20:13:05 UTC
mynnna wrote:
I've been playing with this for a couple days, and here's the adjustment I propose:

Fatigue = (Fatigue Before Jump + Distance of Jump)^(Destination Distance from Origin * A + B)

Isn't this rather exploitable in a home-defense sort of situation? I.e. as soon as you jump back to your origin system you reset to Fatigue = 1 (since you'll be multiplying all those modifiers by 0, which means you're taking current fatigue ^ 0, which always equals 1), which at the current decay rate would give you Fatigue = 0 in 10 minutes? That would essentially mean that you can rapidly deploy with Z lightyears of home base, hammer something, and head home - getting less and less fatigue accumulated as you do so. Once you're home, 10 minutes later you're totally refreshed and ready to go.

It also means that you can hop in your capitals, hammer the snot out of someone 15-20 LY from "home base", jump back home, get in your interceptors, spend 20-30 minutes crossing the map, and do the exact same thing there.

It's an interesting solution, but there's no reason to so heavily advantage teleportation in and around home systems, especially in such an exploitable way.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#7839 - 2014-10-08 20:22:22 UTC
Dream Five wrote:

If you can achieve the same goal with a simpler formula that's a strictly better solution.

Remove jump drives completely.

(cept' for JF's and Blops...they still get ugly math..) :)

Would you like to know more?
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7840 - 2014-10-08 20:26:42 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
mynnna wrote:
I've been playing with this for a couple days, and here's the adjustment I propose:

Fatigue = (Fatigue Before Jump + Distance of Jump)^(Destination Distance from Origin * A + B)

Isn't this rather exploitable in a home-defense sort of situation? I.e. as soon as you jump back to your origin system you reset to Fatigue = 1 (since you'll be multiplying all those modifiers by 0, which means you're taking current fatigue ^ 0, which always equals 1), which at the current decay rate would give you Fatigue = 0 in 10 minutes? That would essentially mean that you can rapidly deploy with Z lightyears of home base, hammer something, and head home - getting less and less fatigue accumulated as you do so. Once you're home, 10 minutes later you're totally refreshed and ready to go.

It also means that you can hop in your capitals, hammer the snot out of someone 15-20 LY from "home base", jump back home, get in your interceptors, spend 20-30 minutes crossing the map, and do the exact same thing there.

It's an interesting solution, but there's no reason to so heavily advantage teleportation in and around home systems, especially in such an exploitable way.

You're assuming an extra parentheses, it doesn't work that way.

You're assuming it's Fatigue = (Fatigue Before Jump + Distance of Jump)^(Destination Distance from Origin * (A + B)) where you'd be correct - fatigue would be 1 because you'd be raising to zero. However, those extra paranthases aren't there.

What it would actually work out to be is Fatigue = (Fatigue Before Jump + Distance of Jump)^(b)) (the distance *a drops out as zero).

So, it would then depend on B. But as long as B is not zero then no, you don't zero out your fatigue by jumping back to orgin.