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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Litia Cours
Bubba Gump Shrimping Corp
#7741 - 2014-10-08 14:01:41 UTC
Perhaps I missed something about 0.0 space.

Why should a 1 hour old character be able to easily transfer to 0.0 space?

To give an analogy on this:-

Would you give a newborn baby a handgun and a fork, throw them out into the wilderness and expect them to survive?

0.0 is supposed to be dangerous, deadly space full of nasty outlaw types that eat babies for breakfast. Why should a < 1 month character be allowed to move instantly and without danger to the deepest regions of that space?

If you are bringing in an alt toon for scouting/probing/general **** you don't do on your main toons, then scout them in.

As I said at the start, perhaps I missed something....
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#7742 - 2014-10-08 14:16:02 UTC
Mildew Wolf wrote:
Resubbed +2 accounts

Don't puss out now ccp


Can I look forward to the new characters being as creatively crafted as Mildew is?

Mr Epeen Cool
Misha Hartmann
Tribal Mist
#7743 - 2014-10-08 14:16:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Misha Hartmann
mynnna wrote:
I've been playing with this for a couple days, and here's the adjustment I propose:

Fatigue = (Fatigue Before Jump + Distance of Jump)^(Destination Distance from Origin * A + B)




Lovely idea, but I have run some math with your constants, unless ive done it wrong, the fatigue values are very low. The whole fatigue idea is not a bad one, but its a fine line where it should be. Loo low, and why bother. Why not just intoroduce a flat rate 10 min jump cool down timer and then some fatigue. Fatigue for me was never really an issue, it was perhaps a bit harsh, but making the original fatigue additive not multiplicative would also solve it and then leave JF and Rorqs completely alone.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#7744 - 2014-10-08 14:18:57 UTC
Except Force projection i think that the primary reason why nullsec won't be selfsufficient it is because they don't NEED to be because of the JFs. While these changes adress my concern i think it is not still enough. The easier the logistics are the bigger the entities will be. There for JFs should not have any reductions and JF's should not be allowed to jump in or out of lowsec trough a cyno, only trough gates.

Also DDs in lowsec are a lettdown. Will kill small scale capital brawls.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

Misha Hartmann
Tribal Mist
#7745 - 2014-10-08 14:22:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Misha Hartmann
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Except Force projection i think that the primary reason why nullsec won't be selfsufficient it is because they don't NEED to be because of the JFs. While these changes adress my concern i think it is not still enough. The easier the logistics are the bigger the entities will be. There for JFs should not have any reductions and JF's should not be allowed to jump in or out of lowsec trough a cyno, only trough gates.

Also DDs in lowsec are a lettdown. Will kill small scale capital brawls.


While you are right in that JF allow the big power to remain big, JF efficieny is equally beneficial to all, the small ones TOO!!!! And to be honest, power projection has very little to do with the stuff that JF's can carry, pwoer projection lies in capital and super capitals.

DD's in low sec should really not be even considered, agreed.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#7746 - 2014-10-08 14:33:05 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
387 pages. Damn this is going to be one hell of an 'We TOLD you so" thread to link in 6 months when it's clear that not only did not of this work, but it made things worse Twisted

Edit: forgot to add old "we told you so" link as an example.

Quote:
Expected consequences

Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space
In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals
Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec
Coalitions will be marginally less stable
Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places)


hmmm, sounds familiar doesn't it?


Control freak much?



Say again?


Yeah I missed that one myself. Wat?

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#7747 - 2014-10-08 14:34:33 UTC
Litia Cours wrote:
Perhaps I missed something about 0.0 space.

Why should a 1 hour old character be able to easily transfer to 0.0 space?

To give an analogy on this:-

Would you give a newborn baby a handgun and a fork, throw them out into the wilderness and expect them to survive?

0.0 is supposed to be dangerous, deadly space full of nasty outlaw types that eat babies for breakfast. Why should a < 1 month character be allowed to move instantly and without danger to the deepest regions of that space?

If you are bringing in an alt toon for scouting/probing/general **** you don't do on your main toons, then scout them in.

As I said at the start, perhaps I missed something....


You don't take a fork to survive in the wilderness. You take a knife.

I'm just saying...

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Alex Sn0w
Scan Stakan
HOLD MY PROBS
#7748 - 2014-10-08 14:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Sn0w
8 months learned skills a character specifically for Thanatos, without this patch carriers is rarely used, now I think I can safely delete this character.
Do you really think that jumping from the gate to the gate most interesting exercise in Eve?

Google translation
Koempel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7749 - 2014-10-08 14:40:09 UTC
In the example fatigue kept going up but had no affect on your ship jumping. Did I miss something? What exactly is fatigue, and how is it effecting your ability to jump. The cool down prevents you from jumping, but what does fatigue do, or not do except get bigger?
Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7750 - 2014-10-08 14:50:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Awkward
Quote:
In the example fatigue kept going up but had no affect on your ship jumping. Did I miss something? What exactly is fatigue, and how is it effecting your ability to jump. The cool down prevents you from jumping, but what does fatigue do, or not do except get bigger?


The jump cooldown timer is the highest value of ether the distance calculation or the fatigue value before the jump.

From the example :

In his second jump, the distance based cooldown value was 4 minutes 34 seconds but since he allready had more fatigue from the first jump his actual cooldown timer is 5 minute 16 secon.

In his third jump the actual cooldown timer is then 23 minutes 32 seconds because of the massive fatigue at which point he decides to fly the rest of the way via gate as his next jump would have a massive jump cooldown timer.



Since fatigue decays at a 0.1 trate per minute, it basiacally means that you can make 1 jump per hour without stacking up fatigue.
If you jump more often then that you start to build up fatigue exponentially.

The logical consequence will be that carrier pilots will only use their jump drive when they realy have to, to prevent getting caught with their pants down.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#7751 - 2014-10-08 15:19:57 UTC
Litia Cours wrote:
Perhaps I missed something about 0.0 space.

Why should a 1 hour old character be able to easily transfer to 0.0 space?

To give an analogy on this:-

Would you give a newborn baby a handgun and a fork, throw them out into the wilderness and expect them to survive?

0.0 is supposed to be dangerous, deadly space full of nasty outlaw types that eat babies for breakfast. Why should a < 1 month character be allowed to move instantly and without danger to the deepest regions of that space?

If you are bringing in an alt toon for scouting/probing/general **** you don't do on your main toons, then scout them in.

As I said at the start, perhaps I missed something....

you missed that there is no minimum SP requirement to be in nullsec

you don't need to train or prepare or anything, you just go there and start having fun

for the last seven years, goonswarm federation's newbie policy has been "finish the tutorial, then pod the eff to nullsec, leave everything behind"
Mildew Wolf
#7752 - 2014-10-08 15:20:51 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Mildew Wolf wrote:
Resubbed +2 accounts

Don't puss out now ccp


Can I look forward to the new characters being as creatively crafted as Mildew is?

Mr Epeen Cool



Dare to dream
Litia Cours
Bubba Gump Shrimping Corp
#7753 - 2014-10-08 15:58:36 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Litia Cours wrote:
Perhaps I missed something about 0.0 space.

Why should a 1 hour old character be able to easily transfer to 0.0 space?

To give an analogy on this:-

Would you give a newborn baby a handgun and a fork, throw them out into the wilderness and expect them to survive?

0.0 is supposed to be dangerous, deadly space full of nasty outlaw types that eat babies for breakfast. Why should a < 1 month character be allowed to move instantly and without danger to the deepest regions of that space?

If you are bringing in an alt toon for scouting/probing/general **** you don't do on your main toons, then scout them in.

As I said at the start, perhaps I missed something....

you missed that there is no minimum SP requirement to be in nullsec

you don't need to train or prepare or anything, you just go there and start having fun

for the last seven years, goonswarm federation's newbie policy has been "finish the tutorial, then pod the eff to nullsec, leave everything behind"


Sorry I forgot this game was designed for Goons. My point is why should it be easy as a newbie to travel to the darkest reaches of space? It should be difficult.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7754 - 2014-10-08 16:01:22 UTC
Litia Cours wrote:

Sorry I forgot this game was designed for Goons. My point is why should it be easy as a newbie to travel to the darkest reaches of space? It should be difficult.

why should it be difficult

what does that add to the game

please discuss in terms of the game and not dumb analogies involving babies
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#7755 - 2014-10-08 16:06:04 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:

why should it be difficult
Because EVE is hard, duh.

Mr Epeen Cool
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7756 - 2014-10-08 16:08:06 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
So to the issue

questions for you

Do you accept the premise that null is basically stagnant/broken?

Yes.

Mike Azariah wrote:
Do you believe that power projection is partially at fault?

I would argue it is one of the core reason.

Mike Azariah wrote:
Understand that this is not the panacea for all the problems but one step on the path

Is it the right step?

Most definitely.

Mike Azariah wrote:
What would you think is the next one?

Hmmm... Tough one.

I believe there is a real problem with ease of gathering intel. People insist they need easy intel in order to get fights, but the truth is due to such easy intel, more fights actually DON'T happen because of it. Everyone does the math before the first anti-matter round is shot and if they determine they would lose - they simply do not engage at all. Stay docked. Play other games. 'Blue Ball' the enemy. There needs to be more fog of war, less effort free intel. I'm not advocating we should poke out our eyes and wander around in absolute pain trying to figure things out. Gathering intel should be intuitive and fun for the person doing it. The reward to match the effort put into it. What is the point of 'recon' ships if you can accomplish the same intel gathering in a capsule? By just being in the same system? There should also be equal ways for a player or group to make gathering intel more challenging for another group.

[quote=Mike Azariah]IF they are going to go through with this math and this solution what minor changes would you suggest?
As I mentioned in my article back in February, they need to make sure they have plenty of ways to make adjustments do these things so they can easily address problems. It appears they do in reguards to a role bonuses present on jump freighters and the Rorqual. Although I am not 100% sold on the Rorqual enjoying such a nice bonus to long distance traveling and being extremely combat capable for an industrial ship. As others have said, it should only get one of the two.

Also I am not completely sold on capitals taking gates. That could always be tied into the jump fatigue. Basically one could take as many gates as they like, but the distance they travel via gates is added to their jump fatigue as if they were taking a cyno. That said, I am satisfied enough to wait and see how things go with capitals taking gates. Perhaps there will be enough of a change we won't see hundreds of slow cats roaming around. As glorious as some are saying, I strongly believe something like that is no where remotely healthy for the game and very well could undermine this entire change. Again, time will tell.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7757 - 2014-10-08 16:08:08 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:

why should it be difficult
Because EVE is hard, duh.

Mr Epeen Cool

why shouldn't you be forced to solve complex calculus questions before being able to post

after all, posting is a part of eve
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7758 - 2014-10-08 16:10:31 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:

why should it be difficult
Because EVE is hard, duh.

Mr Epeen Cool

EVE is hard....for non Goons.

Which is why they're crying on the forums when Nullsec is switched on Hard Mode...

...

Mister Miahgi
Sativa Industries
#7759 - 2014-10-08 16:10:57 UTC
This is by far the worst game breaking change that has ever been thought up.

Why don't you add some content to Null Sec that will attract more players instead of breaking game mechanics that are working perfectly fine?

Isn't it pretty obvious we need new content?

Many players have gotten so bored with the game they spend their time griefing new players in High Sec. Has anyone noticed the rampant High Sec war deccing lately? Eve is starting to feel like one of those old games where only bitter vets are left to harass anyone that attempts to play the game.

CCP please don’t break the game more than it already is! Ugh
Litia Cours
Bubba Gump Shrimping Corp
#7760 - 2014-10-08 16:12:07 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Litia Cours wrote:

Sorry I forgot this game was designed for Goons. My point is why should it be easy as a newbie to travel to the darkest reaches of space? It should be difficult.

why should it be difficult

what does that add to the game

please discuss in terms of the game and not dumb analogies involving babies


Ok, here goes...

I remember my first foray into low-sec as a 2 week old pilot in a rifter. I didn't really have a clue what was going on, quite quickly I got ganked. 'Wow', I thought what the hell was that? A week or so later after learning a bit more about the game I ventured back and tried some mostly unsuccessful PvP, learning all the time. I ventured into the outskirts of null a month later after understanding the mechanics involved, died many, many times.

All of the above was fantastic fun. Now for your scenario....

1. Sign up to EVE.
2. read goon advert and join.
3. spend the rest of my EVE career jumping and pressing F1.

Question: Which one sounds more like an enjoyable gaming experience.....?