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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7621 - 2014-10-08 03:37:11 UTC
Ukiah Oregan wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Pilots being somewhere to do something is the force projection.


thanks Rowells, you seem to understand the irony in this nerf

it doesn't address the clone suicides

it doesn't address the clone jumps

it does keep a corp from or an individual from efficiently relocating from one location to another in a reasonable about of time

for example;

corp A is in Cloudring

corp A decides to relocate to Wicked Creek

instead of being able to move assets in a week or two - it'll take a month or more to relocate

that's the part i'm talking about - that's the part i'm concerned about

how does a pilot or corp relocate - not because they are projecting force in a hostile manner tonight - but because they want to live in WC instead of CR...but now they have to reconsider that decision because moving to that location is no longer efficient and will hinder play time - so now - if you are CR you'll need to relocate relatively close - in stages ? - a staged retreat i can understand - but a month or more to relocate just so u can live somewhere else ?

this is supposed to be fun - this is a game we play for enjoyment - this seems to address the issue with NULL sec blobs - but it doesn't really - it doesn't prevent "force projection" - it doesn't break up the super alliances - it doesn't break up control over NULL sec....



The same trip in the blog would take 14 hours if you let your fatigue run down after each jump. I agree it is a bit much, but it's not a month. Besides JF are getting 90% fatigue reduction already. Also you seemed to miss the part about only being able to set your medical clone to the station you're currently in except for once a year or before a certain skillpoint threshold.
Ukiah Oregan
Lithomancers
#7622 - 2014-10-08 03:39:30 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:

you do know that this is getting removed in phoebe right


we'll see....nothing is final to we see the release notes for signularity....

and i haven't read any of the dev post that said suicides is being removed

read where clone placement is going to be revamped - but only if an office doesn't exist....if they were to move existing clones where offices already exist then they'll really break the game....
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#7623 - 2014-10-08 03:40:03 UTC
Athryn Bellee wrote:
Ukiah Oregan wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Pilots being somewhere to do something is the force projection.


thanks Rowells, you seem to understand the irony in this nerf

it doesn't address the clone suicides

it doesn't address the clone jumps

it does keep a corp from or an individual from efficiently relocating from one location to another in a reasonable about of time

for example;

corp A is in Cloudring

corp A decides to relocate to Wicked Creek

instead of being able to move assets in a week or two - it'll take a month or more to relocate

that's the part i'm talking about - that's the part i'm concerned about

how does a pilot or corp relocate - not because they are projecting force in a hostile manner tonight - but because they want to live in WC instead of CR...but now they have to reconsider that decision because moving to that location is no longer efficient and will hinder play time - so now - if you are CR you'll need to relocate relatively close - in stages ? - a staged retreat i can understand - but a month or more to relocate just so u can live somewhere else ?

this is supposed to be fun - this is a game we play for enjoyment - this seems to address the issue with NULL sec blobs - but it doesn't really - it doesn't prevent "force projection" - it doesn't break up the super alliances - it doesn't break up control over NULL sec....



The same trip in the blog would take 14 hours if you let your fatigue run down after each jump. I agree it is a bit much, but it's not a month. Besides JF are getting 90% fatigue reduction already. Also you seemed to miss the part about only being able to set your medical clone to the station you're currently in except for once a year or before a certain skillpoint threshold.


Ukiah, I really wasn't trying to be a jerk when I kept suggesting you re-read the blog and the dev responses. I was trying to clarify.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ukiah Oregan
Lithomancers
#7624 - 2014-10-08 03:41:21 UTC
Athryn Bellee wrote:
medical clone to the station you're currently in.


med clones are not jump clones

as long as you don't die...we'll see ;)
Ukiah Oregan
Lithomancers
#7625 - 2014-10-08 03:43:56 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I was trying to clarify.


dude - your awsome! no worries! Lol

i'm not much of a form poster or reader for that matter

this topic sparked in me a desire to post....something i usually just don't do at all
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#7626 - 2014-10-08 03:44:03 UTC
My main worry is... how the hell am I supposed to cover all of this in a YouTube video that's fit to watch. Evil

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7627 - 2014-10-08 03:44:12 UTC
Ukiah Oregan wrote:
Athryn Bellee wrote:
medical clone to the station you're currently in.


med clones are not jump clones

as long as you don't die...we'll see ;)


I don't see a problem with jump clones. At max skills you can only do one every 19 hours and they usually have implants so someone's not likely to jc to another system and then suicide back to their home.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#7628 - 2014-10-08 03:45:51 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

that is what I like to see

the most ingratiating position of surrender possible


It just occurred to me why CCP is making this change.

When you guys steamroll some useless hole in the middle of nowhere for the lulz, an Evac will be all but impossible.

Of course if they flip GSF like BoB it means a lot of stuff gets left in Dek too but that won't happen..

did you just imply that ccp would disband our alliance

lmbo


You should really be worried about what will actually happen when this goes live.

Nothing changes.


please tell us what will happen o master of moongoo


I just did.
FTR I'm not the master of Moon Goo. I've gone out of my way to avoid it. Just like I have gone out of my way to avoid the PvP - Steven Hawking version you guys in Null call Sov warfare.

Enjoy though.
Ukiah Oregan
Lithomancers
#7629 - 2014-10-08 03:48:49 UTC
Athryn Bellee wrote:
they usually have implants so someone's not likely to jc to another system and then suicide back to their home.


my JC in far reaching stations would only have implants if i was there often

otherwise they were bare bones ..with several fleet fit BS or CAP waiting for use

i did that all the time....then just add another JC back to the station....lol don't need a JC to keep your ships cached in station
Ukiah Oregan
Lithomancers
#7630 - 2014-10-08 04:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ukiah Oregan
Athryn Bellee wrote:

The same trip in the blog would take 14 hours if you let your fatigue run down after each jump. I agree it is a bit much, but it's not a month..


Your jumproute from F5M-CC to CU9-T0 using a Rhea.
Jump Drive Calibration 1, Jump Fuel Conservation 1, Jump Freighters 1.

Total travel distance: 65.27ly.

so if you had the minimum amount of skills...this could be 65.27ly of travel

65.27ly / 5ly per jump = 13.054 jumps

now factor in the compounding fatigue timers.....

the dev already said they'll most likely lock the fatigue timer in at no more than a Month

now with all with the best skills:

Your jumproute from F5M-CC to CU9-T0 using a Rhea.
Jump Drive Calibration 5, Jump Fuel Conservation 5, Jump Freighters 5.

Total travel distance: 62.30ly. / 5ly = 12.46 jumps (13 jumps total i would think)

now factor in the compounding fatigue timers.....

BTW - i have no plans of slow boating a Rhea through gates
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7631 - 2014-10-08 04:14:09 UTC
Ukiah Oregan wrote:
Athryn Bellee wrote:

if you let your fatigue run down after each jump..

now factor in the compounding fatigue timers.....

Haha, I see there has been some miscommunication here

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7632 - 2014-10-08 04:23:47 UTC
Ukiah Oregan wrote:
Athryn Bellee wrote:

The same trip in the blog would take 14 hours if you let your fatigue run down after each jump. I agree it is a bit much, but it's not a month..


Your jumproute from F5M-CC to CU9-T0 using a Rhea.
Jump Drive Calibration 1, Jump Fuel Conservation 1, Jump Freighters 1.

Total travel distance: 65.27ly.

so if you had the minimum amount of skills...this could be 65.27ly of travel

65.27ly / 5ly per jump = 13.054 jumps

now factor in the compounding fatigue timers.....

the dev already said they'll most likely lock the fatigue timer in at no more than a Month

now with all with the best skills:

Your jumproute from F5M-CC to CU9-T0 using a Rhea.
Jump Drive Calibration 5, Jump Fuel Conservation 5, Jump Freighters 5.

Total travel distance: 62.30ly. / 5ly = 12.46 jumps (13 jumps total i would think)

now factor in the compounding fatigue timers.....

BTW - i have no plans of slow boating a Rhea through gates



I said fatigue, not the normal countdown. When you jump you get two timers, one is when you can initiate jump the other is your jump fatigue. If you wait for the fatigue to countdown you start over the same as the first jump.
Tikitina
Doomheim
#7633 - 2014-10-08 04:23:54 UTC
Busta Rock wrote:
you just dont get it. the big power blocks will continue going about business as usual after this change - all they have to do is cache capitals in their regional holdings, and they have PLENTY of caps to do that with. Unless and until moon mining ceases to be an AFK ISK faucet, the paradigm will NOT change.




  • Make Moon resources depleteable.
  • Remove jump clones.
  • Allow implant sets to be changed once every 20-24 hours.


Re-enforce the forums.
Ukiah Oregan
Lithomancers
#7634 - 2014-10-08 04:25:35 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Haha, I see there has been some miscommunication here


lets see you sit in an unfriendly lowsec or nullsec system in a JF all by yourself waiting for timers to expire :)
Tikitina
Doomheim
#7635 - 2014-10-08 04:29:11 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'm pretty sure there is going to be a fair amount of fiddling with this (which is a good thing), but a lot is going to depend on future changes that most players are not aware of yet.

The thing that is going to make this change the hardest is the fact that it needed to be done a loooong time ago.



Great point, this needed to be done so many years ago.

I would like to know who at CCP prevented it, but it probably doesn't matter anymore. I'm fairly certain the ones who are implementing this have known that it has needed to be done. They probably had to convince someone way up of the same thing, which didn't happen until the "blue donut" appeared and sustained itself.

Kind of like the outrageous edge case nano-ships that prompted the nano-nerf.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7636 - 2014-10-08 04:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Nazri al Mahdi
Ranger 1 wrote:

Keep in mind that JF have the least penalties and can still move relatively freely over long distances... and of course where reasonably safe can use gates while their much shorter timers run down.


The JF got its range cut in less than half, which due to map imperfections results in 4x the jumps for some routes. What took 7 jumps now takes 28, and to top it off you get a cooldown.

That is an unfathomably horrible nerf. They could have cut cargo in half rather than range and done far less damage.

The "DPS" equivalent of a jump freighter's performance is the quantity of cargo it can carry per unit time. Let's see how bad this nerf is on the 28-mid run I mentioned.

Pre-nerf, a jump freighter can be expected to jump back and forth on the same pair of cynos 4 times in a single lighting. So its capacity is roughly:

340,000 m3 x 4 = 1,360,000 m3 per ten minutes. Multiplied by 7 jumps, it takes 1 hour 10 minutes to do this run ONE-WAY, but of course you have to do the return trip so it's 2 hours 20 minutes for the round trip.

Post-nerf, you have to cool down 15 minutes after making a jump. At this point, you can't Ping-Pong your cynos because of the fatigue. You have to wait 15 minutes to cooldown after 5LY. That effectively lengthens the cyno time to 15 minutes and the trips per cyno to 1.

340,000 m3 x 1 = 340,000 m3 per 15 minutes. Multiplied by 28 jumps, it takes 7 hours to do this run ONE-WAY, and the round-trip is 14 hours. But you now must make 4 of these trips, leading to 56 hours of time to complete the same circuit that used to take 2 hours and 20 minutes.

In other words they have made it take TWENTY-FOUR times longer to do logistics in the near-worst case..

Hauling x cargo in y time is the sole measure of a jump freighter's utility. Reducing this to 1/24 of its original capability is like reducing a max-skilled Nyx's DPS to 792, less than a cruise-fit Raven.

Jump freighters have had their utility reduced by over 95%. This nerf is absolutely extreme. Logistics pilots are right to be completely freaking out about it and unsubbing left and right.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#7637 - 2014-10-08 04:49:03 UTC
Ukiah Oregan wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Haha, I see there has been some miscommunication here


lets see you sit in an unfriendly lowsec or nullsec system in a JF all by yourself waiting for timers to expire :)





its called a station or a POS literally complete immunity to anything and you have undock invulnerability so you can jump to safety unless your a complete disgrace at EvE, at which point you deserve to lose the ship anyways. and you can jump from within a POS bubble too so even safer. The timers do nothing other than advocate you momentarily do something else, whether its bio breaks, fiddling with settings, playing another alt, or whatever

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7638 - 2014-10-08 04:54:08 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Now I am confused in This post it seems you are following the thread to see if you can help find balance via the CSM.
Yet in the above quote you seem to be saying these changes are it, we all have to deal with it and adapt.

Which is it?
Is my play style (and that of hundreds of others) being completely removed or is there hope for the smaller groups in nul to survive without giving up PVP.
Because in its current form, these changes remove the ability of smaller groups to operate in nulsec without committing a lot more time to the mundane but necessary parts of the game.

Is it intended by CCP and the CSM that only mega corps and huge coalitions can operate in nulsec?


Change is coming. Full stop period

Playing the same way as the rules change around you is not advised. This is not a thread to decide IF the change is happening but modifications to the form.

CCP stated the objectives in the OP.

Me, I hope to hell that there is some balkanization but I do not want to see the megas die nor do I want the little guys killed off faster than a corner grocery when Walmart comes to town.

There should be room for both.

m


Quote:
CCP Greyscale:

This *is* our focus group



Thank you for officially confirming the obvious - and that the lying is working as intended.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Ukiah Oregan
Lithomancers
#7639 - 2014-10-08 04:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ukiah Oregan
Christopher Mabata wrote:

its called a station or a POS



at 5ly jump distance you'll be lucky just to have enough cyno alt's you'll need to make a trip less alone be able to plan jump routes in ideal systems....

since we're talking about the upcoming release and how it affects JF's it would be good for you to be somewhere on topic

PS> going AFK in a JF while trying to complete a logistics plan is an epic loss...cyno alt planning, system intel, etc etc....lol...afk while running a logistics plan.....lmao.....
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#7640 - 2014-10-08 05:01:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Mabata
Ukiah Oregan wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:

its called a station or a POS



at 5ly jump distance you'll be lucky just to have enough cyno alt's you'll need to make a trip less alone be able to plan jump routes in ideal systems....

since we're talking about the upcoming release and how it affects JF's it would be good for you to be somewhere on topic



Im sorry but you do realize 5ly is an entire region in curse? And theres a station in practically every low sec ever. And if your setting up a logistics CHAIN then it would also be feasible to invest in a POS or two for added safety. And yes you do have the luxury of planning it because like i said there are stations everywhere and you still have a good range. Look at provi e very single system has a station. Look at NPC Nullsec, TONS of stations even if only 1 per system.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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