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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Drodecas
the Goose Flock
#7481 - 2014-10-07 16:53:54 UTC
Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Also are there ways to jump to Dev responses ._.

Find one dev post and then click on the dev marker on their portrait and you will jump to the next one.
Aeolinda
The Draconis Combine
#7482 - 2014-10-07 17:00:26 UTC
Is there any plans to remove the fatigue or cooldown from the Jump freighters or Rorq's? these ships is used for hauling and giving boost's, why should they be punished for that since they are a part of the logistic chain and not a combat ship?
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#7483 - 2014-10-07 17:03:39 UTC
Toriessian wrote:

Looking at it a supercarriers hold 35 clones and titans hold 75 clones at max skill. Those are large enough numbers the CFC/N3/PL could figure it out if there really is an advantage. Having "taxi" clone vats to move jump clones where needed certainly seems feasible though since the clone vat pilot can make a few jumps without adding to the fatigue of the jump clones it holds.


And the part I missed....

CCP Greyscale wrote:

Can supers use gates after this change?
Yes.


HAHAHAHAHHA... We will be entering the era of roaming wrecking balls!

10 supers + 150ish or so carriers can hold an entire battleship fleet AND the BS fleet pilot jump clones.

I don't want to hear anybody complaining about jump freighters or BLOPS being used as capital taxis now. Who needs them. Capitals are the taxis in new EVE. :)

If the CFC and N3 get to play this game and I don't get Black Ops changes I may actually have genuine tears about it lol....

Every day I'm wafflin!
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#7484 - 2014-10-07 17:08:49 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
Carniflex wrote:
Tribal Trogdor wrote:
About caps jumping gates:

1) Carrier gate camps - If they sit 0 on gate, they have more than enough subcap killing potential along with enough RR potential to wait out 60 seconds of aggro if needed. This wouldn't be so bad in null as there are bubbles to keep them on the other side, but in low, how is this to be countered? Breaking a fair amount in under 60 seconds would take a fair amount of dreads, which have to siege and get stuck for 5 minutes, while the carriers are only stuck for 60. If the carriers jump out via the gate, they can align out, blap anything that might be sat on the other side to stop them (as most are stuck next door and the real DPS cant follow) and dock up. Even in null though, the dreads are still stuck out of the fight, unless of course they burn to the gate, jump in, and hope the archons hadn't reapproached in the time O.o

2) Cyno Jammers - Drop cyno next door, warp to gate, jump in. Kinda kills the point of it, yea?


In low sec gate camping with carrier or even supers will be either totally or quite safe. If you get agressed you wait out the timer and jump the gate. After jump your gate cloak will last 30 sec but you can jump after 15 secs. So light exit cyno, pick the beacon in right click menu, press "a" for align and immediately press jump, if you do it right you will jump the same second you de-cloak.

Granted one danger would be titans, but hey, you can do the same camp with a titan. And titan is very large, you can smartbomb damn lot with a titan. Just need couple different emergency exit cynos in place.


Unless a group plans out a counter and there are plenty of them you can use. Like remote sebo heavy dics and nuet ships. Come on, start planning whale hunting with small boats is a blast.


It takes at least 1 server tick to lock a ship. If the ship has already given order to jump at the same tick it decloaks there is nothing you can do to catch it. Sure it is always possibility that the pilot messes something up, in real EVE mistakes happen.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#7485 - 2014-10-07 17:16:31 UTC
Seeing all these great theories makes me look forward to this patch even more :3 cant wait for all those lossmails :D
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#7486 - 2014-10-07 17:18:57 UTC
400 pages can we get 400 pages.....

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
PerfectWing
True Illumati Dark Star Corp
#7487 - 2014-10-07 17:22:28 UTC
Ever thought of making the jump fatigue timer, regional.Shocked
so if I cross from say tribute to delve then I get the timer. having a timer in the say region of space , is just all full. Evil
If im under standing this right I take a jb from f-y to 9uy buy a mod then take it back and I know have what a day of fatigue.
I can see the point of the timer. I just think its a little excessive, Arrow
Also enjoy all the new gate camps with supers. I know maybe I can find a titian to bridge me 8 systems over so I can buy a loki sub in the same region then, bridged me back. Also they can manufactory them and put them on the market and charge 300m isk per sub to pay for fuel costs. Then will just buy more plex.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#7488 - 2014-10-07 17:23:12 UTC
Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Pandora Myuki wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
Two questions: How is a carrier (or any other captial for that matter) supposed to survive traveling through gates in null sec?

AND

How is a carrier (or any other captial for that matter) supposed to survive jumping through systems without blue stations or pos?

JDC was supposed to protect my carrier by increasing the number of options for systems to jump to so that I can land at a friendly station. Now it means nothing with a limit of 5 ly.

JDO was supposed to protect my carrier by decreasing the amount of time I had to wait for my capacitor to be ready for the next jump so that my exposure time in space was limited.

What is the purpose of my ultra-long level 5 JDC and JDO training for carrier protection after these changes? With such exposures, how is this not the greatest capital nerf in the history of Eve?

Give capitals the ability to use the covert ops cloak, the ability to deploy a pos without any delay on the shield going up, fast align times, bubble immunity and +2-10 to warp core stability, and other things to make it not completely exposed and vulnerable out there in space traveling without either jump distance or jump ability.


The fitting window


While you you are asking for the impossible please ask the Devs to give Supers and Titans the ability to dock up to the out side of stations as well, because I'm so sure that ain't gonna happen either.

Seeing how they said a titan use to be too large to go through a gate and used the same reason as a station, I dont see why not


From tech point of view its something totaly different. in stations your ships are physically docked. While stargate just sends it in form of energy to another gate...if im not mistaken. Therefore size of ship transportable bygate depends on power available :P
Solumon Caar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7489 - 2014-10-07 17:28:23 UTC
I LOVE it.

Making distance a *real* issue makes the universe bigger, adds variance and brings opportunity for creative political gameplay formerly not available.

Honestly, since joining eve a little more than a year ago, it became obvious that the mechanics favored established power far too much. Power was a one dimensional game mechanic that was far out of balance.

I never thought they would have the balls to do something so specific and so intentional as this. They have a new respect from me. They are castrating the empire mechanic for the sake of a more complex and playable political landscape. That is a risk for them.

Props.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#7490 - 2014-10-07 17:28:27 UTC
PerfectWing wrote:
Ever thought of making the jump fatigue timer, regional.Shocked
so if I cross from say tribute to delve then I get the timer. having a timer in the say region of space , is just all full. Evil
If im under standing this right I take a jb from f-y to 9uy buy a mod then take it back and I know have what a day of fatigue.
I can see the point of the timer. I just think its a little excessive, Arrow
Also enjoy all the new gate camps with supers. I know maybe I can find a titian to bridge me 8 systems over so I can buy a loki sub in the same region then, bridged me back. Also they can manufactory them and put them on the market and charge 300m isk per sub to pay for fuel costs. Then will just buy more plex.



Think regional fatigue would completely remove any meaning of these changes
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#7491 - 2014-10-07 17:45:03 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Carniflex wrote:
Tribal Trogdor wrote:
About caps jumping gates:

1) Carrier gate camps - If they sit 0 on gate, they have more than enough subcap killing potential along with enough RR potential to wait out 60 seconds of aggro if needed. This wouldn't be so bad in null as there are bubbles to keep them on the other side, but in low, how is this to be countered? Breaking a fair amount in under 60 seconds would take a fair amount of dreads, which have to siege and get stuck for 5 minutes, while the carriers are only stuck for 60. If the carriers jump out via the gate, they can align out, blap anything that might be sat on the other side to stop them (as most are stuck next door and the real DPS cant follow) and dock up. Even in null though, the dreads are still stuck out of the fight, unless of course they burn to the gate, jump in, and hope the archons hadn't reapproached in the time O.o

2) Cyno Jammers - Drop cyno next door, warp to gate, jump in. Kinda kills the point of it, yea?


In low sec gate camping with carrier or even supers will be either totally or quite safe. If you get agressed you wait out the timer and jump the gate. After jump your gate cloak will last 30 sec but you can jump after 15 secs. So light exit cyno, pick the beacon in right click menu, press "a" for align and immediately press jump, if you do it right you will jump the same second you de-cloak.

Granted one danger would be titans, but hey, you can do the same camp with a titan. And titan is very large, you can smartbomb damn lot with a titan. Just need couple different emergency exit cynos in place.


Unless a group plans out a counter and there are plenty of them you can use. Like remote sebo heavy dics and nuet ships. Come on, start planning whale hunting with small boats is a blast.


It takes at least 1 server tick to lock a ship. If the ship has already given order to jump at the same tick it decloaks there is nothing you can do to catch it. Sure it is always possibility that the pilot messes something up, in real EVE mistakes happen.


Tell that to the ceptors we kill who think like that also.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7492 - 2014-10-07 18:05:56 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.



I posted this elsewhere too but worth adding here.




I've yet to see why a newbie dying on the way to null is a problem (oh noes, my 6m atron!). Unless they're in an itty with ALL their earthly possessions. Show me a serious null presence that doesnt have a logistic wing.

A swift glance at the map shows all but the most recent camps - and looking at the map is null 101.


Question: WHY should people moving to "one of the most dangerous areas of space" have their hands held to get there? And don't say "because newbie" -- if you can't get in and out yourself, you're not fit to be there in the first place.
Daron Annus
Excel Pens
#7493 - 2014-10-07 18:10:37 UTC
so its been a week, any changes to your current plan of implementing these changes you claim will come next month?
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7494 - 2014-10-07 18:19:31 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:

Eh you just shut your mouth until you join an alliance that actually has challenges to meet in Eve.

my friend, although we are the best, there are always more wretched pubbies that have yet to make the ultimate sacrifice for our ever-growing skullthrone and each new layer is a new challenge

in fact, if you'll just step over here, we need to take a few measurements to see where you'd fit in best
Frag Solo
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#7495 - 2014-10-07 18:19:41 UTC
If you want remove pod express oki .... But remove corp office limite in station too !!!!

@Frag_Solo

EVE Paris , EVE Vegas , EVE Fanfest .... I was there

Undefeated champion of Valkyrie

Complaints Department AT Team Captain and director
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7496 - 2014-10-07 18:45:03 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
400 pages can we get 400 pages.....

Thread gets locked at page 399.

Troll level: ISD

...
NaNNeR HaMMeR
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7497 - 2014-10-07 18:54:14 UTC
PerfectWing wrote:
Ever thought of making the jump fatigue timer, regional.Shocked
so if I cross from say tribute to delve then I get the timer. having a timer in the say region of space , is just all full. Evil
If im under standing this right I take a jb from f-y to 9uy buy a mod then take it back and I know have what a day of fatigue.
I can see the point of the timer. I just think its a little excessive, Arrow
Also enjoy all the new gate camps with supers. I know maybe I can find a titian to bridge me 8 systems over so I can buy a loki sub in the same region then, bridged me back. Also they can manufactory them and put them on the market and charge 300m isk per sub to pay for fuel costs. Then will just buy more plex.



The above is really a pretty amazing idea.

THINK about this in terms of the players time investments on a daily level, what does the average player do, and how does this affect them as well. We want to limit large scale immediate force projection without fracking over the individual players. the majority of my time is spent in my region or going to and from trade hubs....how do we not frack me over while still limiting any group from being able to control 20 regions Instead of setting some arbitrary idea for travel, how about putting some real thought into just exactly what you're trying to prevent, immediate long range force projection for PvP purposes.

What does CCP consider a reasonable amount of time for force projection between say Fountain and Vale, or Tenerifis and Deklien?

Scale it down from there, approach this from a what is reasonable instead of just NFW

I love the direction these changes are intended to take the game, but they are entirely too much too quickly. No I shouldn't be able to move from one side of eve to the other in less than an hour, but it also shouldn't take a month. Logistics work for industrialist and pvp'ers shouldn't be turned into something that makes RL jobs look more appealing.

The idea that Gate jumps should be quicker is great, AFTER a certain point.

Make war yes, but frankly in it's current state, I'll end up with the group that says eff that and plays more of anything and everything else. I don't have all the answers, but Nerf the Nerf bat ffs.
Gwailar
Doomheim
#7498 - 2014-10-07 19:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwailar
NaNNeR HaMMeR wrote:
PerfectWing wrote:
Ever thought of making the jump fatigue timer, regional?


The above is really a pretty amazing idea.
. . .

The idea that Gate jumps should be quicker is great, AFTER a certain point.


That's pretty much what they're achieving with the scaling jump fatigue they've proposed. Jumping is faster than gates inside ~20LY, with a bigger speed advantage the shorter the distance. The only thing is, for short trips, you'd have to wait out some fatigue before you head back on the round trip to keep your total fatigue from climbing too high.

Clearly with this system, you should jump at the end of cooldown only if you're doing a very few jumps, or if you're in a situation where you really NEED to, or if you know you're going to be offline for a while to burn off your fatigue. Otherwise, you should wait out the fatigue count till it's less than one.

But really, what they want you to do is start thinking of gates as your primary means of movement, rather than jumps.

The Dev Blog that Started This Whole Thing wrote:
We are going to allow capital ships to use gates in lowsec/nullsec, and we are aiming to make gate-to-gate travel take less time than jump travel over distances of more than ~20 LY. We've run simulations for capital ships travelling between arbitrary pairs of systems, and settled on the target movement speed of no less than 3 minutes per lightyear for travel over 20 LY. This should allow us to bring about the main change we want to see – less sustained use of jump travel – while still preserving its value for short bursts of movement.

[Emphasis mine]

And from post #723 in this thread:

CCP Greyscale wrote:
Cr Turist wrote:
how about a fixed cool down timer for capital jumps say 5-10 mins. forget this silly 5ly thing and all this other madness your talking about. its quick its easy it makes sense.

To hit our target of being faster to gate-warp than to jump, and our benchmark of 3m/LY for gate-warping caps around, for a 17 LY carrier jump the cooldown would need to be 51 minutes.

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#7499 - 2014-10-07 19:12:50 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
How is a carrier (or any other captial for that matter) supposed to survive traveling through gates in null sec?


Maybe by bringing some friends?

I'm pretty sure that's the whole idea behind a Massively Multi-player ORPG.

Mr Epeen Cool
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#7500 - 2014-10-07 19:23:18 UTC
Solumon Caar wrote:
I LOVE it.

Making distance a *real* issue makes the universe bigger, adds variance and brings opportunity for creative political gameplay formerly not available.

Honestly, since joining eve a little more than a year ago, it became obvious that the mechanics favored established power far too much. Power was a one dimensional game mechanic that was far out of balance.

I never thought they would have the balls to do something so specific and so intentional as this. They have a new respect from me. They are castrating the empire mechanic for the sake of a more complex and playable political landscape. That is a risk for them.

Props.


Current political maps are a derivative of play style. Not Blue, shoot it. Conclusion: Blue donut.

These changes don't in any way rock the boat. One thing it tries to do is put perspective back on Sov and not on the real power structure of EVE. That being Moon Goo. If there is a tech moon, there is a power bloc and it's all bound by the ability to traverse the map in minutes or so the theory goes.

Those of us who have been a part of the power push in EVE know that lagg is the real killer of budding empires. Combine lagg and the symphony of ISBox fleets and you have certified fail for any alliance with genuine players trying to coordinate. While the small alliance would cringe at the thought of having to supply every Archon pilot with 4 or 5, up to 9 fitted Archon, placed near assets, the power bloc's have no issue there. Jump clone in and be home in 18 hours. No serious Sov threat will come up in 18 hours and unless all tech moons in all regions are hit in the same day, it's a matter of us feeding the Bloc pilots with TiDi, ISBox, I-Win fights.

The long and the short of it, will any of these changes force PL or Goons to give up some of their very lucrative Tech moons?

My answer is no. As much as I can want this to work, I don't see it changing anything.