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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7441 - 2014-10-07 12:59:12 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Jacque Custeau wrote:
This is a another huge nerf to super-carriers and titans. For better or worse, these ships have only a fraction of the ability they once had when they were released.

Is it possible for CCP to re-visit the issue of supers and titans being able to dock? Do you really think that with all the previous changes in addition to what is being planned, it still makes sense to keep these ships out of stations?


Supers and Titans at this point would see a fitting and EHP poke. Carriers should see their drone bay split into 2, 1 large one for Fighters and a BS sized one for regular drones.

Supers and Titans should never be allowed to dock! The pilots in them made a conscious decision to fly space coffins, they had along time of training, building, gathering ISK to change their mind. They knew what they were getting into!

Also, Titans are bigger then some stations...


They also knew that their jump range would be cut horribly at some point?

Your quest for GRR GOONS is grasping at straws at this point, maybe go away for a few weeks and come back to see how the forum have exploded over the patch?


You say "GRR GOONS" I say "GRR Power Projection" ...and the revitalization of Nullsec.

...keep drinking that Kool-aid! And enjoy long TiDi voyages throughout space to stroke someone else's ego! I'll be actually having fun!


I will enjoy it as long as it causes loads of people to feel miserable in their precious lowsec systems when they get to feel the warmth of the servers overheating.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#7442 - 2014-10-07 13:00:21 UTC
Dear Mike,

Just letting you know I am still here and fighting the I quit, I am unsubbing poster, one HTFU and can I have tor stuff at a time. Honestly lets just have a discussion about kitty Kats and leave this change alone and lets burn it all down.

Black
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7443 - 2014-10-07 13:03:33 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
I will enjoy it as long as it causes loads of people to feel miserable in their precious lowsec systems when they get to feel the warmth of the servers overheating.

Actually, they'll be on separate nodes and won't feel a ounce of your fleets struggling through TiDi jump...after jump...after jump...after jump.

...

Misha Hartmann
Tribal Mist
#7444 - 2014-10-07 13:04:02 UTC
One thing is still not entirely clear to me. Sat:

1. I jump and gather up jump fatigue
2. I jump clone to another clone

Do I keep my jump fatigue over all clones? Or is fatigue clone specific?
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7445 - 2014-10-07 13:07:22 UTC
Misha Hartmann wrote:
One thing is still not entirely clear to me. Sat:

1. I jump and gather up jump fatigue
2. I jump clone to another clone

Do I keep my jump fatigue over all clones? Or is fatigue clone specific?

All clones...

Only Time will clear it!

...

Misha Hartmann
Tribal Mist
#7446 - 2014-10-07 13:18:43 UTC
The changes could turn out to fix a lot of stuff, the patch is playing a fine line. But I think it should make stuff interesting if only for a few months.

I just strongly hope/suggest that the logistics for null sec are not ruined. The PvP implications can turn out great, the problem with current changes, in my mind, is the incapacitatingly strong nerf on logistics. A logistics nerf that strong will ruin most of T2 production and most of PvP in null sec, even if pvp and harvest it becomes localized.

As is at the moment, there is no way a significant piece of space can harvest all the stuff required to manufacture everything that is needed for anything really.

Furthermore i have heard some rumors about localization changes; if mineral changes are brought whereby resources are spread evenly over all of eve; it will ruin variety. Say Minmatar space has everything for minmatar ships and t2 mods, it will suck a little. Very few people are happy flying one race alone. Variety is nice.

But I guess we will see the real patch notes in a month or so.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#7447 - 2014-10-07 13:19:19 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:


Sigras wrote:
You could look at this like a massive buff because now your freaking super carrier can use gates!...

Edit - Your super carrier can Die gloriously to a gate camp


Good. Death to all supers.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#7448 - 2014-10-07 13:20:30 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
Tribal Trogdor wrote:
About caps jumping gates:

1) Carrier gate camps - If they sit 0 on gate, they have more than enough subcap killing potential along with enough RR potential to wait out 60 seconds of aggro if needed. This wouldn't be so bad in null as there are bubbles to keep them on the other side, but in low, how is this to be countered? Breaking a fair amount in under 60 seconds would take a fair amount of dreads, which have to siege and get stuck for 5 minutes, while the carriers are only stuck for 60. If the carriers jump out via the gate, they can align out, blap anything that might be sat on the other side to stop them (as most are stuck next door and the real DPS cant follow) and dock up. Even in null though, the dreads are still stuck out of the fight, unless of course they burn to the gate, jump in, and hope the archons hadn't reapproached in the time O.o

2) Cyno Jammers - Drop cyno next door, warp to gate, jump in. Kinda kills the point of it, yea?


In low sec gate camping with carrier or even supers will be either totally or quite safe. If you get agressed you wait out the timer and jump the gate. After jump your gate cloak will last 30 sec but you can jump after 15 secs. So light exit cyno, pick the beacon in right click menu, press "a" for align and immediately press jump, if you do it right you will jump the same second you de-cloak.

Granted one danger would be titans, but hey, you can do the same camp with a titan. And titan is very large, you can smartbomb damn lot with a titan. Just need couple different emergency exit cynos in place.


Unless a group plans out a counter and there are plenty of them you can use. Like remote sebo heavy dics and nuet ships. Come on, start planning whale hunting with small boats is a blast.
Gwailar
Doomheim
#7449 - 2014-10-07 13:20:31 UTC
Misha Hartmann wrote:
One thing is still not entirely clear to me. Sat:

1. I jump and gather up jump fatigue
2. I jump clone to another clone

Do I keep my jump fatigue over all clones? Or is fatigue clone specific?


Ooooo. Good question.

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat

Josef Djugashvilis
#7450 - 2014-10-07 13:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Deleted pointless post

This is not a signature.

Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#7451 - 2014-10-07 13:22:30 UTC
xanderr wrote:
Can someone give the posioned dwarf a slap on the way out when they turn off the office lights for the last time In Iceland.
This will be the death of you.
2014 RIP Eve


Wonder how many times I heard that phrase the last 10 years with EVE Lol

Changes for most parts is good, the lack of dialogue with the devs on the other hand.. not so nice.

Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#7452 - 2014-10-07 13:30:49 UTC
xttz wrote:
Probably a bit late to spitball, but what the hell.

1) Set all ship jump ranges to exactly 10 light years. Carriers, Titans, Blops, everything. Starbase JBs remain at 5LY.
2) Jump fatigue is measured from 1-100%. Whenever you jump, your fatigue is increased by whatever percentage of 10LY you jump. So a 4LY jump adds 40% fatigue, 8.5LY adds 85%, etc. Simple.
3) Fatigue decays on a curve akin to shields and cap regen, just in reverse. This means that it's much quicker to go from 30% to 20% than from 100% to 90%.
4) Until the fatigue decays completely, this percentage is a limit on subsequent jumps. Someone with a 90% fatigue cannot jump more than 1LY, while someone on 35% fatigue can jump up to 6.5LY
5) Special-cases like blops, freighters and JFs build fatigue at a reduced rate (50% is probably fair).
6) Training Jump Drive Calibration speeds up fatigue decay.

This is far simpler to understand for players, easier to do math on the fly, and means less sitting around waiting on cooldown timers doing nothing in what's meant to be a video game. Inter-region travel is just as slow, but local travel is viable. There's an incentive for players to make shorter jumps or take gates, as recovering from a long jump would take much longer than several shorter ones.
The higher range introduces a trade-off for jump-capable combat ships; the further away they hide the easier it is to make a surprise attack, but the harder it becomes to get away again. In the future, power projection can be tuned by simply adjusting the base rate of fatigue decay.

Examples:

An Archon pilot jumps from Sahkt to Karan, a distance of 6.32LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at 63.2%. His next jump must be 3.68LY or less, although this will gradually increase as fatigue decays.

A jump freighter pilot jumps from CCP-US to DO6H-Q, a distance of 3.24LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at a reduced rate of 16.2% (half of 32.4%). His next jump must be 8.38LY or less, although this will gradually increase as fatigue decays.

A Rifter pilot takes a starbase jump bridge between CCP-US and DO6H-Q, a distance of 3.24LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at 32.4%. His next jump must be 6.76LY or less, meaning he can use at least one more Jump Bridge immediately. This means a return trip is easily possible, but using more than 1-2 bridges means a lengthy delay.



Not sure why you even need %, fatigue could just be measured in LY left to jump and current recovery rate LY/minute.

I do think this accomplishes a similar result (if the recovery rate curve is something like 1/x or 1/x^2 even).

The LY recovery rate curve is very important though and might not be very easy for people to grasp how long they need to wait till they can make the next jump. So let's say i jumped 9ly and want to know how long it will take me till I can make a return 9ly jump _before_ i make the 9ly jump. Not very obvious, whereas with CCP's direct time calculations i always know in advance how long i'll have to wait before i can make the next jump.

Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#7453 - 2014-10-07 13:34:53 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Hagika wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
This thread still full of fear mongering and deception?



And Glorious tears. Being an optimist I always prefer to see it as the cup being half full. But no. Its damned full and overflowing. It's gonna be soo much fun...


It doesnt matter if your glass is half full or empty when it is filled with ****.

Sincerely,

A Realist....


Depending on how much fiber is in your diet you actually could have an issue getting it in the cup, So it leaves the is it half full or full open to interpretation especially if theres air pockets

Sincerely
A former Nutritionist


Seriously? Who goes around putting **** into cups? That's seriously abnormal behavior.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Tikitina
Doomheim
#7454 - 2014-10-07 13:35:13 UTC
A1arica wrote:
Would you please confirm the timing of this proposed change to Long-Distance Travel? As quoted on the dev blog

"Phase One contains the long-distance travel changes, as well as some other associated changes planned in Phoebe in November. These changes are not intended to be a silver bullet to fix all of Nullsec’s issues in one fell blow. Instead, they represent a significant improvement to specific areas of concern for Nullsec (and Lowsec) while also setting the stage for the later changes."

However it is my understanding that Oceanus is scheduled to be released November 4th and Phoebe December 9th.

At least based on the Fanfest presentation of the scheduled releases.
http://puu.sh/c2iml.jpg
Hyperion - Sept 23
Oceanus - Nov 4
Phoebe - Dec 9
Rhea - Jan 20
Thethys - Feb 7
Theia - Mar 17
Themis - April 4



Oceanus is Live.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7455 - 2014-10-07 13:37:10 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
I will enjoy it as long as it causes loads of people to feel miserable in their precious lowsec systems when they get to feel the warmth of the servers overheating.

Actually, they'll be on separate nodes and won't feel a ounce of your fleets struggling through TiDi jump...after jump...after jump...after jump.

Last time I fought in an N3PL versus CFC brawl in losec, all the surrounding systems were tidi'd to hell.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7456 - 2014-10-07 13:39:04 UTC
Ruffio Sepico wrote:
xanderr wrote:
Can someone give the posioned dwarf a slap on the way out when they turn off the office lights for the last time In Iceland.
This will be the death of you.
2014 RIP Eve


Wonder how many times I heard that phrase the last 10 years with EVE Lol



You're right, EVE has been booming all these years - those guys were totes wrong.

That which is dead may never die?
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#7457 - 2014-10-07 13:47:28 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Ruffio Sepico wrote:
xanderr wrote:
Can someone give the posioned dwarf a slap on the way out when they turn off the office lights for the last time In Iceland.
This will be the death of you.
2014 RIP Eve


Wonder how many times I heard that phrase the last 10 years with EVE Lol



You're right, EVE has been booming all these years - those guys were totes wrong.

That which is dead may never die?


You know your right I never viewed EVE as a zombie game. But in reality all eve players are zombies they never really die.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7458 - 2014-10-07 13:49:26 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Ruffio Sepico wrote:
xanderr wrote:
Can someone give the posioned dwarf a slap on the way out when they turn off the office lights for the last time In Iceland.
This will be the death of you.
2014 RIP Eve


Wonder how many times I heard that phrase the last 10 years with EVE Lol



You're right, EVE has been booming all these years - those guys were totes wrong.

That which is dead may never die?


You know your right I never viewed EVE as a zombie game. But in reality all eve players are zombies they never really die.

Whoa dude - that was like, sublime and stuff.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#7459 - 2014-10-07 14:04:26 UTC
Chigiku wrote:
I really hope this change will come live in november. (the jump fatigue and the reduced ly jump range, for caps / jf)
I personally find it a wonderful idea
I think CCP expected Crius to make so that null sec people would rather produce in null sec than shopping everything in jita, hope it will be attained in Phoebe

Agree. People in this thread seem fixated on the opening move by CCP in this game of fix-null chess...

What if the next moves are things like this. 2 out of 6 done so far...

(fingers crossed)

F
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7460 - 2014-10-07 14:38:02 UTC
Two questions: How is a carrier (or any other captial for that matter) supposed to survive traveling through gates in null sec?

AND

How is a carrier (or any other captial for that matter) supposed to survive jumping through systems without blue stations or pos?

JDC was supposed to protect my carrier by increasing the number of options for systems to jump to so that I can land at a friendly station. Now it means nothing with a limit of 5 ly.

JDO was supposed to protect my carrier by decreasing the amount of time I had to wait for my capacitor to be ready for the next jump so that my exposure time in space was limited.

What is the purpose of my ultra-long level 5 JDC and JDO training for carrier protection after these changes? With such exposures, how is this not the greatest capital nerf in the history of Eve?

Give capitals the ability to use the covert ops cloak, the ability to deploy a pos without any delay on the shield going up, fast align times, bubble immunity and +2-10 to warp core stability, and other things to make it not completely exposed and vulnerable out there in space traveling without either jump distance or jump ability.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein