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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#7281 - 2014-10-06 21:42:08 UTC
t'raq mardon wrote:
Panther X wrote:
I wonder if anyone has discussed being able to dock supers? If there's going to be a penalty, there should be a mitigating factor to the penalty, with skills and the ability to dock to "affect repairs" whatever. If the fatigue is going to run through downtime, then will a safe logoff be negated because of fatigue or jump timer? Is balance not de rigeur anymore?

If I can't log off safely, then in the immortal words of Russell Peters...
"Someone's gonna get a hurt real baaaaad"


yes, multiple times. As of right now they are NOT looking at it


I haven't read all the pages, so I must have missed that. Heck I haven't seen any responses from CCP nor ISD other than editing for bad content and trolling.

If we are getting hit with the major nerf bat, and yeah it looks like we are, it would be good to at least have a balancing or mitigating factor in it. Getting two penalties at one time for cyno travel seems a bit heavy handed. I'm not crying, or whining, just asking for them to slow down, let us get used to one mechanic at a time.

At this point though, I'm not expecting much, and just going to wait it out, try to understand what it;s going to do to me personally, how it effects my personal game and how I will have to adjust for fleets.

You only know what you know, and you don't know what you don't know.

Or, its always darkest before it goes completely friggin black


My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#7282 - 2014-10-06 22:04:20 UTC
@CCP

I think your changes sound interesting, and I am fine with taking the extra work to move around. However, with the reduced max jumpable distance, is the isotope usage also reduced proportionately? If it's not, my Archon pilot will have to plan jump routes by fueling stations for any lengthy travel.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7283 - 2014-10-06 22:06:18 UTC
Kirasten wrote:
@CCP

I think your changes sound interesting, and I am fine with taking the extra work to move around. However, with the reduced max jumpable distance, is the isotope usage also reduced proportionately? If it's not, my Archon pilot will have to plan jump routes by fueling stations for any lengthy travel.

Oh yeah, so if the increase in jump costs was needed to stabilize isotopes, better increase them again because people will presumably be jumping less...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7284 - 2014-10-06 22:08:25 UTC
Panther X wrote:
If we are getting hit with the major nerf bat, and yeah it looks like we are, it would be good to at least have a balancing or mitigating factor in it. Getting two penalties at one time for cyno travel seems a bit heavy handed. I'm not crying, or whining, just asking for them to slow down, let us get used to one mechanic at a time.

But we have a bonus to gate travel (for ships that couldn't take gate travel).

Panther X wrote:
I'm not crying, or whining, just asking for them to slow down

I see...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
BerSerKer 13
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7285 - 2014-10-06 22:13:25 UTC
I think this is going to work out nicely so you can no longer have 3rd party nuking you will super cap over kill form 60 jumps away and going back the same day Big smile
Sigras
Conglomo
#7286 - 2014-10-06 22:14:09 UTC
You could look at this like a massive buff because now your freaking super carrier can use gates!...

Everyone is thinking about this change wrong. This is not a nerf to jump drives, it is the complete removal of jump drives as a travel mechanic and the addition of a "in very specific and strategic situations break glass to teleport" mechanic.

IMHO this is a fantastic change which makes "deployment" to an area actually mean something.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#7287 - 2014-10-06 22:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Marlona Sky wrote:
Tikitina wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
This thread still full of fear mongering and deception?



Yea, They are going to take their toys and go elsewheres because they can't get it their way.

Some people can't or refuse to adapt I guess. This game has always been more than about the mechanics. Won't be the first time that this has happened in Eve though.


Let's be honest here. Most of them are not going anywhere.

Won't take "most of them" to have an impact.
I have 4 paid with $ subs which will expire between now and Xmas plus 4 more due in the early new year. I have up until now been happy to pay for my subs so pve activities for plex don't interfere with the little online time I have and that time can be spent doing what I login for - PVP.

I don't particularly like large scale warfare, preferring small gang fighting (with my capitals when the opportunity arises) over blob fleets.

I'll probably keep a subcap toon subbed but if these changes have the effect I believe they will, 7 toons will unsub. That is $100 a month CCP will not get.
My $100 isn't much on its own but if just 100 paid subs are lost, that amount suddenly becomes much more.

I have spent years training for the ships I fly, I don't want to have to sit down and add up how many days my capitals will be stuck at point X while i wait out fatigue. I don't want to join a blob alliance so I can in relative safety move my capitals through gates, to get to a fight.

There are better ways to reduce capital force projection than removing the ability of smaller groups to use them. We aren't the problem but will suffer the effects the most.

Sigras wrote:
You could look at this like a massive buff because now your freaking super carrier can use gates!...

Edit - Your super carrier can Die gloriously to a gate camp

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sigras
Conglomo
#7288 - 2014-10-06 22:17:26 UTC
Kirasten wrote:
@CCP

I think your changes sound interesting, and I am fine with taking the extra work to move around. However, with the reduced max jumpable distance, is the isotope usage also reduced proportionately? If it's not, my Archon pilot will have to plan jump routes by fueling stations for any lengthy travel.

Isotope usage has always been about Isotopes per lightyear... making shorter jumps shouldnt have any effect on that (other than the increase in distance jumped because you cant take as straight a line as you used to.

IIRC jumps do not get more efficient the longer the distance you jump
Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#7289 - 2014-10-06 22:18:39 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Panther X wrote:
If we are getting hit with the major nerf bat, and yeah it looks like we are, it would be good to at least have a balancing or mitigating factor in it. Getting two penalties at one time for cyno travel seems a bit heavy handed. I'm not crying, or whining, just asking for them to slow down, let us get used to one mechanic at a time.

But we have a bonus to gate travel (for ships that couldn't take gate travel).

LOL like taking 3 and a half minutes (an exaggeration I know) to align to the next gate is a bonus?

Panther X wrote:
I'm not crying, or whining, just asking for them to slow down

I see...


grrr goonz

Lol

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#7290 - 2014-10-06 22:19:09 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
@CCP

I think your changes sound interesting, and I am fine with taking the extra work to move around. However, with the reduced max jumpable distance, is the isotope usage also reduced proportionately? If it's not, my Archon pilot will have to plan jump routes by fueling stations for any lengthy travel.

Oh yeah, so if the increase in jump costs was needed to stabilize isotopes, better increase them again because people will presumably be jumping less...


If fuel usage isn't changed, a long distance route could be even more difficult, as we will have to plan out logisitcs for our carriers small fuel bays, be it finding fuel along the way or dragging haulers with us.

If they want us using more isotopes, they could alternatively do something crazy like ... increase the size of our fuel bays.
Tairon Usaro
G-Fleet Alpha
#7291 - 2014-10-06 22:24:06 UTC
Quote:
From the beginning we wanted to ensure the new design would be able to incorporate new content or changes with minimal disruption to the day to day goings on of alliances in EVE. The choices above indicate only the beginning of what we can do with this new system. Once the dust settles and we see how the new system performs, we will begin to look at adding additional elements for both the attacker and defender to use.

from Dev Blog Nov 2009 about Sov-Warefare changes which where supposed to end the stagnation ....

So please allow me to be at least skeptic. I don't see how the new changes will solve the stagnation problem.

While I do acknowledge that the jump drive nerfs will make battles like B-R, Asakai, etc. near to impossible to happen, I dont see how these changes shall keep alliances from building coalitions. Force projection is a symptom not the root cause. To my eyes the root cause is the still existing massive incentive to blobb in sov-warefare. I would assume that the opposite of the intended purpose will happen with these changes: Caps and SCaps will be used in defense, making it more difficult for the poor aggressor to be victorious. Rich ones just have 2 sets of Caps ....

I dont understand why logistics & sov perks need to be nerfed. Range limitation and cool down nerf JFs to uselessness. An alliance will rather do classic freighter/webber runs than using these crippled JFs. Keep the ranges otherwise they are useless. No Cooldown !

Black ops: Fatigue and cool down concept on black ops squads is just beyond me.

Jump bridges: If you want to limit their force projection capacity, then restrict their use to the sov keeping alliance.

Sov warefare: How about deadspace shielded size limited skirmishes ? Think of two sets of "the maze" type accecel gates allowing size and number limited access to battle fields, where capture the flag games determine the outcome of a sov conflict for a system. lets say 5 battle fields with fleets sizes of 2x20 (max cuiser), 2x50 (max BS) 1x150 (all sizes) => 290 pilots each side max.
Quality instead of quantity ..... => no need to blobb, no need to form coalitions.
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#7292 - 2014-10-06 22:24:34 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
@CCP

I think your changes sound interesting, and I am fine with taking the extra work to move around. However, with the reduced max jumpable distance, is the isotope usage also reduced proportionately? If it's not, my Archon pilot will have to plan jump routes by fueling stations for any lengthy travel.

Isotope usage has always been about Isotopes per lightyear... making shorter jumps shouldnt have any effect on that (other than the increase in distance jumped because you cant take as straight a line as you used to.

IIRC jumps do not get more efficient the longer the distance you jump


Oh ok, then.

Full steam ahead. Bring on the pain!
Julian Aldurald
Posh Wankers
#7293 - 2014-10-06 22:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Julian Aldurald
Sonds like an interesting change... I generaly realy agree with an anti blob mechanic like this one. Cool

A possiple workaround/ exploid I could think of is having fleet setups ready or transported by using multiple Capitals and move the goods between them while they got to wait for timers and letting the pilots get to the battle in interceptors and crap you got a blob...
You all know what tidi would look like then, I think...
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#7294 - 2014-10-06 22:25:12 UTC
ugly inside wrote:
friend: what you playing?
me: eve online.. its a space game in another galaxy
friend: oh sounds fun.. can you go anywhere you want?
me: yeah basically you can do basic engin travel anywhere but thats slow so you can warp drive or even stargate jump.. the bigger ships can jump drive as well.
friend: jump drives sound cool.. like star wars you can jump anywhere in the galaxy?
me: no.. only 5 lightyears.. basically stuck in the same star region.. and theres a cooldown on it so you cant do it much.. and the cooldown stacks so eventually you might as well go outside and play ball with your dad.

........

friend: oh.. was it always like that?
me: no.. the devs was like.. we move too fast gotta slow down
friend: oh.. so technology in the game went backwards?
me: mmhm..
friend: sounds like the devs undid what they got paid to do before they did it..
me: yup..
friend: you still playing it?
me: no.. that screen you saw me at was me un-subscribing.


if it were like starwars, there would be no stargates. All intersystem travel would be at warp speed.

1ly =63240 au = 21080 seconds at 3au/s = 351minutes = 5.8 hours

See how your logistics pilots like it when making a run to hs takes a literal week of travel time.
Demon-of-Razgriz
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7295 - 2014-10-06 22:29:36 UTC
Although I do not agree fully I do believe this is way too drastic of a change for the first go around. If this is an idea that CCP wants to try how about start at half values and go from there. If this is a miracle fix and works good at half values try the tweak then. Don't just go Oh now your carrier can only do this, this, and this then stuck in this spot. Start small and tweak from there. I would like CCP to take consideration of this seriously I believe this will harm 0.0 greatly more than help. I for one and contemplating weather capital ships are worth it anymore. They used to be a dream and now they are like do i even want them. Now I do understand what the goal of this is but I can see a great part of the community are in a disagreement with this change.

Please revisit the plan and consider at least starting with less nerf than your current.

Thank you for the time to read this.
Sigras
Conglomo
#7296 - 2014-10-06 22:30:42 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Tikitina wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
This thread still full of fear mongering and deception?



Yea, They are going to take their toys and go elsewheres because they can't get it their way.

Some people can't or refuse to adapt I guess. This game has always been more than about the mechanics. Won't be the first time that this has happened in Eve though.

Let's be honest here. Most of them are not going anywhere.

Won't take "most of them" to have an impact.
I have 4 paid with $ subs which will expire between now and Xmas plus 4 more due in the early new year. I have up until now been happy to pay for my subs so pve activities for plex don't interfere with the little online time I have and that time can be spent doing what I login for - PVP.

I don't particularly like large scale warfare, preferring small gang fighting (with my capitals when the opportunity arises) over blob fleets.

I'll probably keep a subcap toon subbed but if these changes have the effect I believe they will, 7 toons will unsub. That is $100 a month CCP will not get.
My $100 isn't much on its own but if just 100 paid subs are lost, that amount suddenly becomes much more.

I have spent years training for the ships I fly, I don't want to have to sit down and add up how many days my capitals will be stuck at point X while i wait out fatigue. I don't want to join a blob alliance so I can in relative safety move my capitals through gates, to get to a fight.

There are better ways to reduce capital force projection than removing the ability of smaller groups to use them. We aren't the problem but will suffer the effects the most.

how is it that you dont see this change as a buff? for any small fleet operating in a limited area, this change is fantastic news. Now you can deploy your caps in combat without it being hot drop o'clock 23.5/7

Sure your jump range may be a bit more limited, but did you miss the part where you can use gates?

im not sure what possible small gang low sec application you could possibly be using your caps for that would be worse after the change.
Julian Aldurald
Posh Wankers
#7297 - 2014-10-06 22:33:29 UTC
ugly inside wrote:
friend: what you playing?
me: eve online.. its a space game in another galaxy
friend: oh sounds fun.. can you go anywhere you want?
me: yeah basically you can do basic engin travel anywhere but thats slow so you can warp drive or even stargate jump.. the bigger ships can jump drive as well.
friend: jump drives sound cool.. like star wars you can jump anywhere in the galaxy?
me: no.. only 5 lightyears.. basically stuck in the same star region.. and theres a cooldown on it so you cant do it much.. and the cooldown stacks so eventually you might as well go outside and play ball with your dad.

........

friend: oh.. was it always like that?
me: no.. the devs was like.. we move too fast gotta slow down
friend: oh.. so technology in the game went backwards?
me: mmhm..
friend: sounds like the devs undid what they got paid to do before they did it..
me: yup..
friend: you still playing it?
me: no.. that screen you saw me at was me un-subscribing.


I think this mechanic has its warrant because what do most ppl in EVE Online like most? PVP! And if its gona help get the broken part out of the games pvp away that grow to a high percentage of all pvp, then its gona mean more fun for the most ppl. And also smaller/ new alliances might get into 0.0 again in addition to that. Isn't that worth it. Because 0.0 is kinda freezing into just big parts of a few big alliances.
Sigras
Conglomo
#7298 - 2014-10-06 22:35:15 UTC
Linkxsc162534 wrote:
ugly inside wrote:
friend: what you playing?
me: eve online.. its a space game in another galaxy
friend: oh sounds fun.. can you go anywhere you want?
me: yeah basically you can do basic engin travel anywhere but thats slow so you can warp drive or even stargate jump.. the bigger ships can jump drive as well.
friend: jump drives sound cool.. like star wars you can jump anywhere in the galaxy?
me: no.. only 5 lightyears.. basically stuck in the same star region.. and theres a cooldown on it so you cant do it much.. and the cooldown stacks so eventually you might as well go outside and play ball with your dad.

........

friend: oh.. was it always like that?
me: no.. the devs was like.. we move too fast gotta slow down
friend: oh.. so technology in the game went backwards?
me: mmhm..
friend: sounds like the devs undid what they got paid to do before they did it..
me: yup..
friend: you still playing it?
me: no.. that screen you saw me at was me un-subscribing.

if it were like starwars, there would be no stargates. All intersystem travel would be at warp speed.

1ly =63240 au = 21080 seconds at 3au/s = 351minutes = 5.8 hours

See how your logistics pilots like it when making a run to hs takes a literal week of travel time.

try 2x that because freighters warp at 1.5 au/s

Additionally if it were star wars, you would have to be paying attention the whole time because at any time you could get caught by an interdictor class star destroyer and get pulled out of hyperspace.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#7299 - 2014-10-06 22:39:22 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Linkxsc162534 wrote:
ugly inside wrote:
friend: what you playing?
me: eve online.. its a space game in another galaxy
friend: oh sounds fun.. can you go anywhere you want?
me: yeah basically you can do basic engin travel anywhere but thats slow so you can warp drive or even stargate jump.. the bigger ships can jump drive as well.
friend: jump drives sound cool.. like star wars you can jump anywhere in the galaxy?
me: no.. only 5 lightyears.. basically stuck in the same star region.. and theres a cooldown on it so you cant do it much.. and the cooldown stacks so eventually you might as well go outside and play ball with your dad.

........

friend: oh.. was it always like that?
me: no.. the devs was like.. we move too fast gotta slow down
friend: oh.. so technology in the game went backwards?
me: mmhm..
friend: sounds like the devs undid what they got paid to do before they did it..
me: yup..
friend: you still playing it?
me: no.. that screen you saw me at was me un-subscribing.

if it were like starwars, there would be no stargates. All intersystem travel would be at warp speed.

1ly =63240 au = 21080 seconds at 3au/s = 351minutes = 5.8 hours

See how your logistics pilots like it when making a run to hs takes a literal week of travel time.

try 2x that because freighters warp at 1.5 au/s

Additionally if it were star wars, you would have to be paying attention the whole time because at any time you could get caught by an interdictor class star destroyer and get pulled out of hyperspace.



I wish our bubbles did that, just bubble in a deadspace safespot between gates and tear people out of warp when they least expect it. Would be even better if you landed in the center of the bubble every time, but that would cause too many tears

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7300 - 2014-10-06 22:45:29 UTC
Kirasten wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
@CCP

I think your changes sound interesting, and I am fine with taking the extra work to move around. However, with the reduced max jumpable distance, is the isotope usage also reduced proportionately? If it's not, my Archon pilot will have to plan jump routes by fueling stations for any lengthy travel.

Oh yeah, so if the increase in jump costs was needed to stabilize isotopes, better increase them again because people will presumably be jumping less...


If fuel usage isn't changed, a long distance route could be even more difficult, as we will have to plan out logisitcs for our carriers small fuel bays, be it finding fuel along the way or dragging haulers with us.

If they want us using more isotopes, they could alternatively do something crazy like ... increase the size of our fuel bays.

No, they made the isotopes smaller the last time

Just halve the size of fuel and double the costs

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?