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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Headhunter JAX
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7261 - 2014-10-06 20:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Headhunter JAX
i dont have comment for the changes apart that i dont like it and it will destroy the game ( again )......
so here comes my thoughts

eve after the change :

carrier jump drive activated :
http://i1.kwejk.pl/k/obrazki/2014/10/07c87356-ac9f-4d89-a9f6-aecb8d1d129b_gif.gif
http://i1.kwejk.pl/k/obrazki/2014/10/68d1fd66-3779-422e-97d4-7023ec793d5d_gif.gif
Noble Noob
Nooblets And Gravy
#7262 - 2014-10-06 20:36:09 UTC
Gwailar wrote:
Noble Noob wrote:

3. Each system gets a JF attribute based on leaving or entering the system. This means that what direction you are jumping will make a difference. This allows CCP to make easy paths or very hard paths in space. There can be fast lanes or slow lanes or lumpy lanes.


Umm. What? Why?
Technically difficult to achieve. A pain for everyone to track. Of dubious value.



Technically the server already knows if you are entering or leaving a system so that is not an issue.

No matter what CCP does with JF calculations, there will need to be an automatic system for calculating it. The players are not going to sit with pen and paper each time trying to figure out the JF. This especially applies to fleets. There will have to be some kind of group calculation so fleets can jump together. And it would be a system attribute that anyone can look on the map and see.

The value is another granulated layer of controlling how pilots move around in the universe.

If you want it to be easy for haulers to get to HS, you could build a specific route that would have little to no JF penalty. So it would be easy to move assets to HS but hard to get back out to null. Also everyone would know the route and be waiting to gank you along the way. Pocket systems is another instance where you may want to make a certain direction easier or harder to travel.


Gwailar wrote:
Noble Noob wrote:

1. A system that is set as Home system by corp/alliance has a large JF add on.
This means jumping caps into that system will be very difficult. Subcaps would still be able to jump in if they have been careful about JF. So subcaps jump in and clear a way for the caps to come through the gate.


Jumping into systems is already difficult by virtue of the fact that you have to build up fatigue to get to them. That is to say, jumping to a home system already has a large fatigue add because you have to, you know--jump--to get to it.


As stated before with CCP system you can get a cap pilot 40LY away with zero JF penalty. And then jumping has no extra penalty than jumping in your home system. With my proposed system, jumping into a home system even if it is next door will cost you a lot. And may leave you unable to exit other than by gates.

If you are going to attack someone's home system it needs to hurt, and the further away it is it needs to hurt more. And if you are sending a cap fleet it needs to hurt tremendously. So basically cap fights close to home, sub cap longer distances. Or use gates.


Gwailar wrote:

This is already exactly what the current system does: "Those traveling across the map to attack will get hit harder and harder the farther they go. At some point along the way they will need to start using gates instead."


As said before by others, that can be manipulated and you end up with a cap pilot 40LY away with no JF penalty, and full ability to move as if they are at home. Why?

Because the CCP system is not attached to the map. In my system you may be 40LY away with no JF penalty, but the first jump will cost as if you had made all of those jumps. So there is no getting around it, and it is tied to the map.


Do I expect CCP to use this system? No.

But what I hope is that they can see that any system needs to be granulated at least some so that it can be adjusted in pieces without messing with everybody everywhere in any type of ship.

And I hope that they can see that it needs to be connected to the map and have options for the players to create content.

But thanks for the discussion and hopefully someone will read it and make some helpful changes.
t'raq mardon
Laminated Metals
#7263 - 2014-10-06 20:36:55 UTC
Panther X wrote:
I wonder if anyone has discussed being able to dock supers? If there's going to be a penalty, there should be a mitigating factor to the penalty, with skills and the ability to dock to "affect repairs" whatever. If the fatigue is going to run through downtime, then will a safe logoff be negated because of fatigue or jump timer? Is balance not de rigeur anymore?

If I can't log off safely, then in the immortal words of Russell Peters...
"Someone's gonna get a hurt real baaaaad"


yes, multiple times. As of right now they are NOT looking at it
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7264 - 2014-10-06 20:38:28 UTC
Pah Cova wrote:
Yes, good news for me.

This is just what i was waiting for, time to rest for me.
Someday when CCP open her eyes, theres no one left to pay their salaries.

Like we say around here "no clown, no circus", i´m not call clown to anyone, it´s only an expression in my country like many others wich are not offensive.

Time to dedicate myself to another game and like me theres a few undreds or thousands.

Farwell CCP



I recommend solitaire or minesweeper. Both have a 'show next move' feature. Or Roberts Space Industries: Star Citizen. When it releases in 2055 it will be a glorious on-rails flight sim, and until then you play on the forums, (which as we all know is very fun).

Either way, you'll be enjoying new games that do not require any thinking, let alone adaptation to emerging challenges. The first two offer you the stale gameplay I'm sure you will embrace. And the second one is definitely a circus with the biggest clown you've ever seen.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck.

We'll all be right here btw;

telling our friends about this sweet game and paying CCP's salaries.

Because for every one of you, there is another person ready to embrace these changes, resubs to check them out and try new things ,and new subs that appreciate the pros of a well manicured game that is constantly evolving and changing.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7265 - 2014-10-06 20:43:31 UTC
This thread still full of fear mongering and deception?
t'raq mardon
Laminated Metals
#7266 - 2014-10-06 20:43:50 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Pah Cova wrote:
Yes, good news for me.

This is just what i was waiting for, time to rest for me.
Someday when CCP open her eyes, theres no one left to pay their salaries.

Like we say around here "no clown, no circus", i´m not call clown to anyone, it´s only an expression in my country like many others wich are not offensive.

Time to dedicate myself to another game and like me theres a few undreds or thousands.

Farwell CCP



I recommend solitaire or minesweeper. Both have a 'show next move' feature. Or Roberts Space Industries: Star Citizen. When it releases in 2055 it will be a glorious on-rails flight sim, and until then you play on the forums, (which as we all know is very fun).

Either way, you'll be enjoying new games that do not require any thinking, let alone adaptation to emerging challenges. The first two offer you the stale gameplay I'm sure you will embrace. And the second one is definitely a circus with the biggest clown you've ever seen.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck.

We'll all be right here btw;

telling our friends about this sweet game and paying CCP's salaries.

Because for every one of you, there is another person ready to embrace these changes, resubs to check them out and try new things ,and new subs that appreciate the pros of a well manicured game that is constantly evolving and changing.



I would recommend MechWarrior Online, or PlanetSide 2 for the interim. Both are fairly fun and free to play. Maybe CCP will make some changes that make the game playable again in a few months.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#7267 - 2014-10-06 20:46:32 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
This thread still full of fear mongering and deception?



And Glorious tears. Being an optimist I always prefer to see it as the cup being half full. But no. Its damned full and overflowing. It's gonna be soo much fun...
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#7268 - 2014-10-06 20:47:59 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:

And Glorious tears. Being an optimist I always prefer to see it as the cup being half full. But no. Its damned full and overflowing. It's gonna be soo much fun...


I haven't added to the BLOPS tear jar today.

Grrrr... Sigh... Moan... Wail.... Black Ops update from CCP?

Every day I'm wafflin!
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#7269 - 2014-10-06 20:48:18 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
Ioci wrote:
Tikitina wrote:



And the limitation on how many Caps/Supercaps can come their way once they are found...



And this introduces a far better solution than anything mentioned so far.

Collapsing Cyno/ Bridge mechanics with fatigue level timers. Done to throttle blob movement rather than distance.



But they could just spam Cynos then and any limit on entering a system or constellation can be gamed.


The system they are introducing will be gamed as well. If you have something in EVE the blob wants, the blob is going to take it. Often times not because they want it, they just don't want you to have it.

The one thing you can leave at the door when you log in to EVE is logic. It's a PvP game with no other reason than to PvP. Blow stuff up for the mail and for no other reason. Goons, PL, N3, they aren't attached to their cap fleets or super cap fleets, not as much as we might think. They just run around looking to pick fights and it's their entertainment. I don't judge, at least they are motivated. That's more than I can say for myself.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7270 - 2014-10-06 20:48:55 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Pah Cova wrote:
Yes, good news for me.

This is just what i was waiting for, time to rest for me.
Someday when CCP open her eyes, theres no one left to pay their salaries.

Like we say around here "no clown, no circus", i´m not call clown to anyone, it´s only an expression in my country like many others wich are not offensive.

Time to dedicate myself to another game and like me theres a few undreds or thousands.

Farwell CCP



I recommend solitaire or minesweeper. Both have a 'show next move' feature. Or Roberts Space Industries: Star Citizen. When it releases in 2055 it will be a glorious on-rails flight sim, and until then you play on the forums, (which as we all know is very fun).

Either way, you'll be enjoying new games that do not require any thinking, let alone adaptation to emerging challenges. The first two offer you the stale gameplay I'm sure you will embrace. And the second one is definitely a circus with the biggest clown you've ever seen.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck.

We'll all be right here btw;

telling our friends about this sweet game and paying CCP's salaries.

Because for every one of you, there is another person ready to embrace these changes, resubs to check them out and try new things ,and new subs that appreciate the pros of a well manicured game that is constantly evolving and changing.


When this goes live you can count the flock of people that come back. I am guessing it will be considerable less than what there is now. Eve is an old game. Similar to Everquest it has its die hards. The die hards account for a good portion of subscription and multiple accounts. When that ends...hmmm who knows. I don't have a crystal ball but I have seen plenty of online games implode from one bad function put in the game. There is always an influx of new players, but the older the game the less often they come. This game is very old, so the number is substantially less. I would speculate the loss will outweigh the gain. But like many have posted, don't let the door hit us on the bum eh ? However, repercussion is I think you will have a lot less lively game and a very boring mechanic. Shrug, time will tell.

After giving players the freedom of moving their supplies chains around you cant just yank it away. Many many many logistic pilots have just enough cyno toons to do this. Many feel they are maxed out in trying to get stuff back and forth, without too many losses. Added a god awful mechanic like this will just roll a lot up and leave. Your individual entrepreneur JF pilot who is in a small corp will pack up and leave. A lot of people, myself included, do not enjoy the large block game. As everyone has said, this subject has been exhausted and we will see how it is implemented.
Tikitina
Doomheim
#7271 - 2014-10-06 20:49:48 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
This thread still full of fear mongering and deception?



Yea, They are going to take their toys and go elsewheres because they can't get it their way.

Some people can't or refuse to adapt I guess. This game has always been more than about the mechanics. Won't be the first time that this has happened in Eve though.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#7272 - 2014-10-06 20:56:19 UTC
Dreaded Vengance wrote:

IMO shiny ships should be extremely expensive and very rare.

Hopefully this will see the alliances monopoly on moons challenged as they simply will not be able to bridge their blobs from one side of the map to another. Maybe they will let some go, maybe they will have localised forces, maybe they will pay someone to sit on them, it's speculative and we won't find out until it happens. There's a bigger picture there all right.

I gather from your "shiny ships" comment you will be happy to pay 350mil for an Ishtar, 400 to 500 mil for your next Blockade Runner, 100 mil plus for T2 frigates?
It isn't only Faction ship prices that will be effected here - Everything other than T1 ships and lootable mods is going to see significant price increases. People aren't going to haul T2 components and moon goo through gates and not bump the prices up considerably to cover risk.


This will secure moon monopoly for all but the smaller holdings, who may have trouble holding onto assets without help.
It makes it far easier for the large groups to protect their assets all round. Unless CCP do a complete redistribution of moons, we are likely to see little to no change in ownership.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7273 - 2014-10-06 21:01:49 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
This thread still full of fear mongering and deception?

Yes. Did you really have to ask?

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7274 - 2014-10-06 21:02:05 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
This thread still full of fear mongering and deception?



Yea, They are going to take their toys and go elsewheres because they can't get it their way.

Some people can't or refuse to adapt I guess. This game has always been more than about the mechanics. Won't be the first time that this has happened in Eve though.


Let's be honest here. Most of them are not going anywhere.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#7275 - 2014-10-06 21:04:10 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
This thread still full of fear mongering and deception?

Aren't you getting exactly what you wanted? No snark, I'm legitimately curious.

I wonder if the result will be what you expect.
Aerich e'Kieron
Peace.Keepers
#7276 - 2014-10-06 21:04:57 UTC
t'raq mardon wrote:
Degnar Oskold wrote:
Building on my earlier thoughts, I also like this change because I believe it will shake up null politics and thus benefit us lowsec dwellers.

Today, the optimal situation for a territory-owning entity is to be part of the largest political faction it can get into. A large faction, or coalition, can project a large number of pilots rapidly across many different locations, and can thus effectively protect all of its territory.

After these changes, a large faction can only project all of its pilots quickly to one or 2 locations. Being part of a large faction now doesn't guarantee that your space will be protected; instead it will only be protected if the faction fleet is not fatigued.

Eventually larger factions will be forced to split into smaller, more local ones, defined by reasonable gate to gate travel times. Initially these will be bound by ties of former kinship, but over time tensions will build and wars will start and New Eden will be aflame.

Without power projection at full strength, larger null empires will inevitably fall apart as local alliances will be more reliable.


maybe. or more likely the major alliances will build another few thousand caps an station them more frequently around the map making it impossible for anyone who isn't just as big to take them on anywhere they decide is their space. As for low sec, you will all become pets for the purpose of logistics for the major power blocks or you will be steamrolled by said capitals and replaced with someone more domesticated. Frankly, that will be the first thing that happens since alliances can't make isk without logistics and a secure logistics chain will be worth whatever it takes to squash wanna be pirates like you.


lol
Shadowed Blackhole
Les Loyalistes
#7277 - 2014-10-06 21:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadowed Blackhole
Busta Rock wrote:
THIS is what CCP SHOULD be doing FIRST! to be perfectly honest, it is FAR too easy to harvest moon goo given the present paradigm. moons should be treated like planets, with varying resource profiles and shifting deposits! not 'drop a POS module or two and harvest 23/7/365 with zero effort'. frankly, ALL materials of ALL classes (that arent biological in origin) should be harvestable from all natural sites, be they planets, moons or asteroids. where the difference should lie is in the actual concentrations of each in the various resource types. I would even go so far as to say that a given star's spectral class should be the foremost indicator of what one can expect to find in a system (resource-wise).

of all the things CCP should be changing, they pick the lowest possible fruit. how typical.


Shadowed Blackhole wrote:
I will never pretend to be an expert in null politics as I have been a carebear for too many years... until only recently, where I actually started exploring null! \o/ (still carebear though!)

May I still share my humble opinion? :-)

I personally don't think this change will address the issue of null stagnation in the long run, nor will it empower the smaller groups much, if at all.

While I believe it may stir things up a little bit at the beginning with alliances adjusting their logistics, but lets face the reality of things; if some players ever adapts, or survives the hauling boredom this change promises, the power blocks currently have the manpower to be the first ones to do so. They will be securing bottlenecks, even if that means kicking smaller alliances out of systems directly on their resupply and/or exportation routes. In the best case scenario, they will tolerate safe passage treaties with the smaller alliances, eventually leading to more stagnation. Nothing really new here (for the most part) as it was already mentioned in many-a-post in this thread.

When you want to promote war, you have to go down to the very basics of its cause; religion and exploitable resources. Since I don't think CCP should go with the first option for obvious reasons, the second one is something they can manipulate.

As far as I can understand, and correct me if I am wrong, the null resources are pretty much static, and most especially, R-64 moons. The static nature of these resources leads to stagnation as once conquered, they will be well guarded until some army rises up to be a stronger power block and take it away from them; this may take a very long time and will not happen from individual small groups and nor should it ever be. In order to be stronger, players have to unite otherwise they'll never overthrow any powerful entity, hence why coalitions are made.

If CCP and the playerbase are not totally satisfied with the frequency at which sovereignty changes or the frequency at which wars are fought (again, I don't participate in them... yet), CCP should directly impact those valuable resources instead of only altering the logistics to resupply their homebase or export their goods.

In essence, I think making those resources depleteable, in order to starve the players, and then to make those resources pop into some other territory, sounds like a better approach at maintaining balance. How long will it take before that large alliance invades another to secure the resource(s) that bloomed in their territory? How many protection contracts will the defending alliance have to go through to hold on to it? Oh look! it popped into renter space? =)

Artificially depleting and moving those extremely valuable resources around implies constant strategic and logistic adaptation by the players; military brute force and presence, rapid base deployment, resupplying, distribution and exportation.

Sure, this inevitably implies drastic changes to the codebase, and will most likely instill player rage towards CCP (anything like this thread? maybe!), but at least they would be better equipped to influence wars. Spawn timers, depletion timers, frequency, number of resources, those are all easily (or moreso) alterable variables afterwards.


.... Or maybe I'm just nuts!! ;-)

.... Or maybe that is what is truly coming later on! O_O :D

*Ominous music playing*




You know, maybe we really ARE only seeing the tip of an iceberg ;-)
This is pure speculation but... Current Jump Drive implementation is kinda pretty quick movement/deployment of forces if we were to live in a null world of depletion and/or relocation of valuable resources... if you understand what I mean :-)

*Ominous music still playing*
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#7278 - 2014-10-06 21:21:42 UTC
Well, wow these are rather ... huge ... changes to current mechanics, takes some time for this to sink in but one thing is for certain; all these c5/c6, null to null, low to low, WH connections have suddenly became a hot topic. Blink
ugly inside
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7279 - 2014-10-06 21:37:34 UTC
friend: what you playing?
me: eve online.. its a space game in another galaxy
friend: oh sounds fun.. can you go anywhere you want?
me: yeah basically you can do basic engin travel anywhere but thats slow so you can warp drive or even stargate jump.. the bigger ships can jump drive as well.
friend: jump drives sound cool.. like star wars you can jump anywhere in the galaxy?
me: no.. only 5 lightyears.. basically stuck in the same star region.. and theres a cooldown on it so you cant do it much.. and the cooldown stacks so eventually you might as well go outside and play ball with your dad.

........

friend: oh.. was it always like that?
me: no.. the devs was like.. we move too fast gotta slow down
friend: oh.. so technology in the game went backwards?
me: mmhm..
friend: sounds like the devs undid what they got paid to do before they did it..
me: yup..
friend: you still playing it?
me: no.. that screen you saw me at was me un-subscribing.
BuddyKnife
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7280 - 2014-10-06 21:41:00 UTC
It's about time CCP nerfed the ability to use jump freighters in HS to move high value cargo in a safer manner.


HS will burn and we will profit.