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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Vagris
#7221 - 2014-10-06 18:01:45 UTC
I like the patch,
decided to return to EVE

If anyone REALLY wants to quit - please, do not biomass your character,
better give it to me.

I will play.
Ned Black
Driders
#7222 - 2014-10-06 18:06:20 UTC
Commander Who wrote:
Shocked


... long explanatory text...


So my Vote on this Changes as it sits is...... -1: I hope CCP is listening to the community because this one is a real balls up.


Concerned EVE Citizen



Don't hold your breath...

This change will come no matter what you or anyone else say... that is a sad fact. They may change it or tweak it a bit later on, but the change WILL come.
t'raq mardon
Laminated Metals
#7223 - 2014-10-06 18:06:38 UTC
Degnar Oskold wrote:
Building on my earlier thoughts, I also like this change because I believe it will shake up null politics and thus benefit us lowsec dwellers.

Today, the optimal situation for a territory-owning entity is to be part of the largest political faction it can get into. A large faction, or coalition, can project a large number of pilots rapidly across many different locations, and can thus effectively protect all of its territory.

After these changes, a large faction can only project all of its pilots quickly to one or 2 locations. Being part of a large faction now doesn't guarantee that your space will be protected; instead it will only be protected if the faction fleet is not fatigued.

Eventually larger factions will be forced to split into smaller, more local ones, defined by reasonable gate to gate travel times. Initially these will be bound by ties of former kinship, but over time tensions will build and wars will start and New Eden will be aflame.

Without power projection at full strength, larger null empires will inevitably fall apart as local alliances will be more reliable.


maybe. or more likely the major alliances will build another few thousand caps an station them more frequently around the map making it impossible for anyone who isn't just as big to take them on anywhere they decide is their space. As for low sec, you will all become pets for the purpose of logistics for the major power blocks or you will be steamrolled by said capitals and replaced with someone more domesticated. Frankly, that will be the first thing that happens since alliances can't make isk without logistics and a secure logistics chain will be worth whatever it takes to squash wanna be pirates like you.
Opsblitz
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#7224 - 2014-10-06 18:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Opsblitz
Keep It Simple CCP.

CCP...Forget all this fatigue and cool down timer.....keep it simple.....Put a 2 or 3 min wait period on every LY jumped before next jump ie....I jump 14 LY in my carrier....I must wait 42 mins before i can jump again or even go as far as placing the jump timer on the ship or both but fatigue and cool down egualing 3days and 30 days max....

No Need to for extra skills
The current JDC still means what it was designed for
People dont lose the distance they can jump just the time it takes to get there.

When one of your players starts playing this game and decided to be a courrier they had to skill alot to get to be the best the game could provide. Now you have taken months of time and money from the player and said....oh well deal with it or find another profession and spend another year training towards underwater basket weaving to be the best you can at what the game has to offer.... but beware we may change that profession to so all the skills you trained for can no longer provide the result they originally were designed for.


Just keep it simple
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#7225 - 2014-10-06 18:12:56 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
You guys really make me laugh..

CFC have proved time and time again that they can quite easily win engagements without the use of Capital Ships.

Hell only yesterday they obliterated a nulli BS Fleet worth 36bil using bombers.




Whats making me laugh is you trying to gloss over the fact you did have a cap fleet at that engagement, in case your memory is flawed it was sitting right on the other side of the gate the abbadons tried to jump through. Your bombers were so succesful because the server shat itself and wouldnt let the abbadons jump, not because you didnt bring a cap fleet.

What's making me laugh is the presence of the caps at this event is somewhat irrelevant. Our caps would be there anyway, it's a defensive timer in our back yard. But the rest of this bit is very much relevant to this topic.

The problem is not that the server "shat" itself. It wasn't some random hiccup or bug. The Tengu fleet jumped first. The Abaddon fleet got stuck with traffic control. This happens every time. From a bloc fight to trying to jump into Jita at prime time. You can complain that "the server shat itself", or you can give credit where it's due. The bombers were where they needed to be, expecting some of the ships on that gate would be stuck with traffic control. People need to learn how to fly subcaps through gates, because they are about to do it far more often. The presence of the caps had nothing to do with the death of the battleships.

One of the biggest offenders for causing the server to "shat itself" is session changes. Jumping and docking/undocking.

As far as the direct impact these changes would have had on that event? Rather than 8 session changes getting to the staging system by jump bridges, or a single carrier jump, I would avoid the fatigue and fly 20 jumps through gates in my travel fit interceptor. That is an extra 12-19 session changes in rapid succession. A thousand other people in the region will be doing the same. Oh and there's a tidbit about enemy caps being harder to bring in and extract, and jumping with more midpoints for more session changes.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7226 - 2014-10-06 18:21:40 UTC
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:



Yeah it's not just in game either: Relevant


That is some quality butthurt right there. I wonder if this falls under the out of game harrassment guidelines?



To be clear, I found that in a google search, while looking for past CCP Greyscale quotes.

So my hands are clean.


I wasn't referencing you mate, it's all good. I meant whoever started the petition.



Yeah... you know there is using a quip or internet meme to try to call attention to the content of your post or the issue at hand, and then there's something like *that*. Of which posting to highlight how many tears and rage quits might be coming from this topic, isn't the same as actually doing *that*... but just in case: "Your support ticket has been submitted, the support ticket tracking id is 3742747." I'm not taking any chances.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Josef Djugashvilis
#7227 - 2014-10-06 18:26:13 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
I think people raged themselves into submission. The thread is slowing down.


The quitters have done gone and quit Smile

This is not a signature.
Vagris
#7228 - 2014-10-06 18:32:02 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
I think people raged themselves into submission. The thread is slowing down.


The quitters have done gone and quit Smile



No characters left? all biomassed?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7229 - 2014-10-06 18:33:50 UTC
Vagris wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
I think people raged themselves into submission. The thread is slowing down.


The quitters have done gone and quit Smile



No characters left? all biomassed?

people slowly realized they were arguing with their own alts.
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#7230 - 2014-10-06 18:41:15 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Jump a Rorqual with a Clone Vat Bay to a lowsec system close to highsec, let every new member go there in a shuttle or pod, create a clone and jump all of them out to wherever you desire. Once you're there they can jumpclone without any risk. The rookie only needs one rank 1 skill at level 1 for it. A Rorqual can carry up to 75 clones (let me write that out: SEVENTYFIVE) that way in one go and gets the same bonuses for jump cooldowns as a jumpfreighter.

Personally I find the laziness and/or lack of resourcefullness of all the people who are crying about this disgusting. Are you sure you're playing the right game?


I didn't think your posts could get any sillier, but I was mistaken. Too bad you cant jump past the point of the perma camp that will encompass the edges of low/null to do your grand plan.

Do you really need everything spoon-fed? Let it join your logistics operation which has to cross these choke points anyway.

First before you tell anyone they are spoon fed you need to do logistics for awhile. Ask anyone here that has done it for any length of time, you don't know what you are talking about. They are just trying to reverse what was already put in and has been the norm for a long time. Don't tell me that you want to go back to attempt to do logistics fleets, because with the current ship technology your entire fleet will get destroyed. I try to stay out of this thread but when I see clueless posts like this I have to respond.

Don't mix up the topics and don't try to put words in my mouth that I never said: I was talking about how to circumvent the removal of death-clone-jumping newbies with the tools that are already at our disposal under the premise that the jumpdrive changes are being implemented as announced. I was NOT talking pro/contra logistical operations to reach regions that are outside of the 5 ly jump range of other regions but it should be pretty obvious that such operations will be a necessity for groups who want to live in that space. Adding a Rorqual with the aforementioned purpose to such an existing operation is a no-brainer. Now tell me where I'm wrong here.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7231 - 2014-10-06 18:43:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
Rowells wrote:
Vagris wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
I think people raged themselves into submission. The thread is slowing down.


The quitters have done gone and quit Smile



No characters left? all biomassed?

people slowly realized they were arguing with their own alts.



No people realizing the reality - that no amount of CSM involvement, no amount of rage/tears/protest or slick internet meme's Pirate are going to avert or significantly modify this change.

When you know that working within the system is futile, and that the system is rigged against you from the start you're going to see all manner of craziness erupt.

The fix that breaks players, and pushes them into inactivity or quitting, isn't a fix - regardless of the intent.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Josef Djugashvilis
#7232 - 2014-10-06 18:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Vagris wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
I think people raged themselves into submission. The thread is slowing down.


The quitters have done gone and quit Smile



No characters left? all biomassed?


I very much doubt the vast majority of the 'rage quitters' actually bio-massed.

I see the whole - me and my zillion alts are quitting - as a not very subtle attempt to get CCP to back off and to continue to allow folk to use Titans etc to hot-drop cruisers on the far side of the universe.

Only time will tell if CCP have taken the right path.

This is not a signature.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#7233 - 2014-10-06 18:44:41 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Vagris wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
I think people raged themselves into submission. The thread is slowing down.


The quitters have done gone and quit Smile



No characters left? all biomassed?

people slowly realized they were arguing with their own alts.



Sad thing is, that might be true, if so, i think they have bigger problems than a jump nerf.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7234 - 2014-10-06 18:51:37 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Sooo.. Cyno jammers are useless now since they can simply cyno in next door and jump through gates? I don't think allowing capitals to use gates is a good idea.

This somewhat increases their force projection after nerfing it.


I wanna ******* see a cap fleet jump into a camped gate. Please Sweet Space Jesus let someone try this.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7235 - 2014-10-06 18:52:23 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Sooo.. Cyno jammers are useless now since they can simply cyno in next door and jump through gates? I don't think allowing capitals to use gates is a good idea.

This somewhat increases their force projection after nerfing it.


I wanna ******* see a cap fleet jump into a camped gate. Please Sweet Space Jesus let someone try this.


Its going to be us. We're going to do this and we're going to lose an entire cap fleet doing so.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7236 - 2014-10-06 19:00:28 UTC
John McCreedy wrote:
Dreaded Vengance wrote:
Creamdream wrote:
These are very interesting changes however :

JUMP FREIGHTERS REALLY SHOULD HAVE LONGER THAN 5 LIGHT YEAR JUMP RANGE OTHERWISE IT WILL BECOME A NIGHTMARE.


There was a time when people hauling stuff into low/null for $$profit had to take risks, low sec freighters with an escort was an actual thing. I used to herd blockade runners deep into null where my small corp managed to carve out a little bit of it and called it home for a while. Eve was big, sometimes scary and you had to work at it to get the rewards.

Adapt or poast in caps, up to you I guess.




They did it in Tech 1 Haulers which even back then cost considerably less than a Freighter does today. It moved faster so only really needed a scout, not an escort and there where a hell of a lot less people in Eve and living in Low Sec than there are today. How much do you think your shiny ships in Empire are going to cost when Alliances start having to transport their moon goo in T1 Haulers? Try to look at the bigger picture and get your facts historically accurate.


Really the moon goo situation is what worries me the most. I'm a 2012 player so I can't say how things got done in the golden era, but it seems to me that CCP is banking on localized industrial hubs in order to support industry post Phoebe and I just don't see moon goo being available outside Jita. Hopefully a goo export industry will develop, but I support maintaining long-range logistics capability for JFs and Rorqs in order to prevent undue disturbance on the economy.
Gwailar
Doomheim
#7237 - 2014-10-06 19:02:55 UTC
Vald Tegor wrote:
People need to learn how to fly subcaps through gates, because they are about to do it far more often. The presence of the caps had nothing to do with the death of the battleships.

One of the biggest offenders for causing the server to "shat itself" is session changes. Jumping and docking/undocking.

As far as the direct impact these changes would have had on that event? Rather than 8 session changes getting to the staging system by jump bridges, or a single carrier jump, I would avoid the fatigue and fly 20 jumps through gates in my travel fit interceptor. That is an extra 12-19 session changes in rapid succession. A thousand other people in the region will be doing the same. Oh and there's a tidbit about enemy caps being harder to bring in and extract, and jumping with more midpoints for more session changes.


This is a smart observation. I would like to see the devs explicitly address the issue of performance impacts that this change will bring.

Please be transparent and detailed about what load testing and performance estimates you have done or are doing or are planning to do prior to this change.

Many more ships will be jumping through many more gates after this change.
Caps and supers will be an entirely new form of gate traffic introducing more session changes.
Jump freighters using gates will be more session changes.
All the various escort ships for all of the above will be more session changes.
All the inty fast travelers will be lots of additional session changes.

I think collective confidence in CCP's preparation for and implementation of these changes would benefit from clear evidence of proper infrastructure planning before implementation.

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat
Ned Black
Driders
#7238 - 2014-10-06 19:09:29 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Sooo.. Cyno jammers are useless now since they can simply cyno in next door and jump through gates? I don't think allowing capitals to use gates is a good idea.

This somewhat increases their force projection after nerfing it.


I wanna ******* see a cap fleet jump into a camped gate. Please Sweet Space Jesus let someone try this.


Its going to be us. We're going to do this and we're going to lose an entire cap fleet doing so.


Acutally you may be able to pull it off since after jumping you are suddenly protected by the same cyno jammer that kept you out from the system in question.
Commanda Marr
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7239 - 2014-10-06 19:09:29 UTC
That will kill most of the regions in 0.0 Space and cut them off from Low sec. Making isk is a mess already and a JF LY5 max distance is useless and will empty a lot of the regions since you simply cant get there anymore.

It is hard and expesive enough already to use JF's. That Change would make me thinking of stopping my EVE Indy activities.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#7240 - 2014-10-06 19:27:20 UTC
Commanda Marr wrote:
you simply cant get there anymore.


Erm, you definitely can still get there. If people can populate C5/C6 wormhole space easy enough, you can cope with living in deep null. You get the luxury of permanent gates and the option of jumping around.

Woop-de-doo you can't jump direct from HS to your deadend nullsec. HTFU.