These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7201 - 2014-10-06 16:24:41 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Jump a Rorqual with a Clone Vat Bay to a lowsec system close to highsec, let every new member go there in a shuttle or pod, create a clone and jump all of them out to wherever you desire. Once you're there they can jumpclone without any risk. The rookie only needs one rank 1 skill at level 1 for it. A Rorqual can carry up to 75 clones (let me write that out: SEVENTYFIVE) that way in one go and gets the same bonuses for jump cooldowns as a jumpfreighter.

Personally I find the laziness and/or lack of resourcefullness of all the people who are crying about this disgusting. Are you sure you're playing the right game?


I didn't think your posts could get any sillier, but I was mistaken. Too bad you cant jump past the point of the perma camp that will encompass the edges of low/null to do your grand plan.

Do you really need everything spoon-fed? Let it join your logistics operation which has to cross these choke points anyway.

Amazing opportunity for spies, indeed

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Tenaya Masai
#7202 - 2014-10-06 16:38:27 UTC
Commander Who wrote:
Shocked

All I can say I am glad I stopped training for a capitals, why would anybody in there right mind train for capitals now, this sounds to me to be a well thought out plan...... Suppose to be one of the steps to opening up Nullsec Sov to eveyone- not sure about this one CCP, the power blocks will simple camp the regional gates into Nullsec so anything larger then a ceptor is toast. There is nothing in this change that will shift the balance of power back to the little man.

(Are you really going to take a titan through a stargate....... Please, titans are so heavily watch by spies and intel groups that minute it is out of a POS halve of eve knows about it)

Concentrate more on fixing/improving the Nullsec Sov Mechanic, then limiting the travel. CCP have been talking for 12+ months on Nullsec Sov with nothing to show for it. All this change is going to do is deter anyone from wanting to even try and take sov of a system, it will basically require the commitment of fleets and resources for long durations with no hope for reinforcement when required, hence needing a massive alliance base to draw from (another kick in the guts for little guy). If you want Nullsec to be for the massive alliance then come out and say it and stop frigg'in around by suggesting otherwise.

I have seen and heard nothing from CCP that is making me think that all these changes are nothing more then to help the current large sov holding alliances, if I was them I would rubbing my hands together think we are getting even more control and reducing our risk.

The current travel changes is like taking 22 gauge shot gun to a carnival duck shooting game, (way over the top), and what do you get... a big pile of mess that no-one else can or wants to play. Throwing the kitchen sink at the problem will only drive players into other areas or even out of the game, as seen by previous changes which has screwed the game is so many ways i.e. nullified ceptors where I can travel through 35 nullsec system in less then 20 minutes with absolutely no risk of getting caught and as a result makes gatecamps and/or gate bubbling useless for system protection. We have already seen players evac equipment and ships (Caps, Supercaps and Titans) from nullsec from the day the devblog was opened, only leaving enough equipment to continue making isk and requiring one logistics run to get everything out once the patch hits.

Start with some small changes for goodness sake and ramp them up, starting huge and say will can dial them back later, is like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted - the damage is already done.

At the moment massive amounts of area is held by a relative few without any work at all. This is what needs to be fixed immediately, when you can hold sov over 100+ systems without ever leaving lowsec is the problem and really does CCP think that these type of sov holders care about the jump mechanics - I highly doubt they do.

But it will stop one thing dead in it's tracks..... no more the massive supercap fights, so could a B-R outbreak ever happen again? Not under this mechanic..... CCP wants to open the game up to more small to medium size fights without the worry about capitals blobbing, I am all for this, however what CCP are doing here is not the answer.

As for the timer, the mathematics on this is ridiculous.... you should never let computer programmers work out mathematically equations they have no idea of the concept of creating mathematically models. Einstein was once asked what was the greatest force in nature, he reply Gravity and Compounding interest...... he would add Eve Jump Fatigue Timers if he was still around. Anyone that is for the jump timer as it stands and claims that it is OK for something to day 3-4 days instead of 1 are probably not the ones that are spending that time waiting.

It always makes me laugh listen to CCP carry on about wanting to improve the game and listening to the players..... This post will prove that they don't care about anything you have to say..... I have no idea what CSM does or it's job because it appears they are not doing a very good one at convincing CCP on anything and it just for show me that much like any government around the world.... CCP pretends to listen and does the total opposite, the only difference with governments they only usually get 3-4 years to stuff everyone around...... I wonder what would happen if a vote was to be had on whether or not some of these game producers should be in-charge, I am betting they're glad they there isn't.

CCP keeps talking about the grand plan...... announce these plans at least in concept to put players concerns to rest... it is frustrating players re-adjusting training schedules, strategic plans based on something happen now only to find out that in 6 weeks it was for nothing, at least in the old release system you had 6 months of enjoyment before getting screwed over again. Making a CCP Webvision station and continually saying that it is part of a bigger picture is simply crap, I say that to my employees when I have no idea what we are doing next. Maybe if the players understood the end goal you would not be getting the backlash that you are seeing here. Maybe CCP has no idea on how to fix the SOV problem - maybe this is where the real problem is.

So my Vote on this Changes as it sits is...... -1: I hope CCP is listening to the community because this one is a real balls up.


Concerned EVE Citizen



Truely well said.... +1
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7203 - 2014-10-06 16:40:10 UTC
Toriessian wrote:
They could certainly send two 300 man boot fleets in two directions gate to gate though. I totally believe that to be in the realm of possibility for the CFC. In an era of EVE where you can't batphone because the reinforcements can't get there via cynos, is anyone going to be able to stop anything involving 300 Boots/slows going gate to gate?

You really think there's 600 of those out there, when was the last time you saw them recently. Yes, like now when they can teleport...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7204 - 2014-10-06 16:40:55 UTC
Lucrii Dei wrote:


I'd like to point out that this is missing the boot on the highsec carebear's neck

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7205 - 2014-10-06 16:41:49 UTC
Toriessian wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
BTW those 300 carriers could bring 4 rorqs with them and literally dump an entire subcap fleet into system with no cynos involved. A little Jump Clone planning with those vat bays is all thats needed.

4 rorquals...whole subcap fleet?


I may be wrong on the limit but I thought 75 clones was the number it could hold. Googling for that one and its not as easy as typing "EVE Clone vat bay limit" unfortunately =/

*I've removed that note as the limit was 10 :). Now as long as the documentation was correct we're all set. Said docs were from 2011 lol...

you might get away with doing that on a titan though. idk depends
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#7206 - 2014-10-06 16:45:22 UTC
If these changes go through make sure to add additional sources of mexallon to null. The nerf to logistic may increase the demand for local nullsec industry, but industrialists won't be able to offset the logistical losses if they don't have an adequate supply of basic T1 mats.

Limited Mexallon = Limited access to T1, which isn't good.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7207 - 2014-10-06 16:50:17 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
If these changes go through make sure to add additional sources of mexallon to null. The nerf to logistic may increase the demand for local nullsec industry, but industrialists won't be able to offset the logistical losses if they don't have an adequate supply of basic T1 mats.

Limited Mexallon = Limited access to T1, which isn't good.

Nah, screw them.

If it was impossible to move things besides pods between nullsec and highsec...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Degnar Oskold
Moira.
Villore Accords
#7208 - 2014-10-06 16:59:58 UTC
I like the change. It's going to make it easier for small numbers of larger ships to be used in Lowsec without fear of massive hotdrop. People should think twice about hotdropping on 1 dreadnought if it means that they miss the chance to cyno into a larger fleet fight happening elsewhere 1 hour later.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#7209 - 2014-10-06 17:25:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Niko Lorenzio
Sooo.. Cyno jammers are useless now since they can simply cyno in next door and jump through gates? I don't think allowing capitals to use gates is a good idea.

This somewhat increases their force projection after nerfing it.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

Insidious
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7210 - 2014-10-06 17:29:19 UTC
cant wait to see the thanatos pilots jumping to stain now

- range
- fuel
- tears


why cant we power our ships at the sun yet elite does it Big smile
Toriessian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7211 - 2014-10-06 17:37:02 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
Rowells wrote:

4 rorquals...whole subcap fleet?


I may be wrong on the limit but I thought 75 clones was the number it could hold. Googling for that one and its not as easy as typing "EVE Clone vat bay limit" unfortunately =/

*I've removed that note as the limit was 10 :). Now as long as the documentation was correct we're all set. Said docs were from 2011 lol...

you might get away with doing that on a titan though. idk depends


Looking at it a supercarriers hold 35 and titans hold 75 at max skill. Those are large enough numbers the CFC/N3/PL could figure it out if there really is an advantage. Having "taxi" clone vats to move jump clones where needed certainly seems feasible though since the clone vat pilot can make a few jumps without adding to the fatigue of the jump clones it holds.


Every day I'm wafflin!

Vodiann
Sodium Chloride Mining Institute
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#7212 - 2014-10-06 17:37:58 UTC
As i was starting to read about these changes i was impressed with the intent.

That said, fatigue on characters rather than ships seems like a sideways complication. I do recognize the programming for characters is easier than ships, but here are some thoughts.

My gut tells me it may be better to simply create a delay of arrival time. If cool downs are ignored this means cynos are lite and the fleet coming through will suffer a delay. All jump drives can recieve the same penalty as jump freighters, rorqs, and even cargo carriers will feel less concern about the speed of arrival. Resulting in a similar result i believe your team is looking for.

This would also seem more sci fi friendly unless you are going the dune approach to which i suppose rather than a skill you could introduce a drug to reduce fatigue. Roll ..Shocked ..Cool


Additionally i thought mayhaps there could be a jump fatigue tracked in the same way insurance of a ship is. allowing other pilots ( with maybe the introduction of a new skill ) to be able to use the same ship and receive more or less response to the ships jump drive fatigue. Otherwise if it is completely attached to a character, you will find people seeding alts to quickly move captial ships around....unless this was considered as a means to increase active accounts. Yet i feel pretty certain pressuring players to use alts to leap frog ships will result in a negative reputation to the game and have an adverse effect.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7213 - 2014-10-06 17:46:09 UTC
Stealth buff to wormhole space
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7214 - 2014-10-06 17:47:04 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Jump a Rorqual with a Clone Vat Bay to a lowsec system close to highsec, let every new member go there in a shuttle or pod, create a clone and jump all of them out to wherever you desire. Once you're there they can jumpclone without any risk. The rookie only needs one rank 1 skill at level 1 for it. A Rorqual can carry up to 75 clones (let me write that out: SEVENTYFIVE) that way in one go and gets the same bonuses for jump cooldowns as a jumpfreighter.

Personally I find the laziness and/or lack of resourcefullness of all the people who are crying about this disgusting. Are you sure you're playing the right game?


I didn't think your posts could get any sillier, but I was mistaken. Too bad you cant jump past the point of the perma camp that will encompass the edges of low/null to do your grand plan.

Do you really need everything spoon-fed? Let it join your logistics operation which has to cross these choke points anyway.

First before you tell anyone they are spoon fed you need to do logistics for awhile. Ask anyone here that has done it for any length of time, you don't know what you are talking about. They are just trying to reverse what was already put in and has been the norm for a long time. Don't tell me that you want to go back to attempt to do logistics fleets, because with the current ship technology your entire fleet will get destroyed. I try to stay out of this thread but when I see clueless posts like this I have to respond.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7215 - 2014-10-06 17:47:05 UTC
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:



Yeah it's not just in game either: Relevant


That is some quality butthurt right there. I wonder if this falls under the out of game harrassment guidelines?



To be clear, I found that in a google search, while looking for past CCP Greyscale quotes.

So my hands are clean.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#7216 - 2014-10-06 17:48:09 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. Normally I would quote the forum rules but in this case that would be a futile undertaking as I would hit the post character limit before having all the broken rules mentioned. Mind you, I have given this thread a lot of leeway and as such moderated lightly. Would I have done so in a strict manner, a third to half of this thread would have been gone by now.

However, some have gone so far over the line I reported them for review by CCP. Be aware that breaking the forum rules to such severe levels might have further consequences. And for those that have not gone that far, please regard the following as a warning:

1. You must have an active EVE Online game account to post on our forums.

Your forum account is linked to your subscription to the EVE Online service. If you are suspended or banned from the game, you will not be able to post on the EVE Online forums. If you are suspended or banned from the EVE Online forums, your game account will be reviewed and you may also be banned from the game.


One other I would like to mention:

31. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.

CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, “outing” of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.






ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

t'raq mardon
Laminated Metals
#7217 - 2014-10-06 17:49:48 UTC
Vodiann wrote:
As i was starting to read about these changes i was impressed with the intent.

That said, fatigue on characters rather than ships seems like a sideways complication. I do recognize the programming for characters is easier than ships, but here are some thoughts.

My gut tells me it may be better to simply create a delay of arrival time. If cool downs are ignored this means cynos are lite and the fleet coming through will suffer a delay. All jump drives can recieve the same penalty as jump freighters, rorqs, and even cargo carriers will feel less concern about the speed of arrival. Resulting in a similar result i believe your team is looking for.

This would also seem more sci fi friendly unless you are going the dune approach to which i suppose rather than a skill you could introduce a drug to reduce fatigue. Roll ..Shocked ..Cool


Additionally i thought mayhaps there could be a jump fatigue tracked in the same way insurance of a ship is. allowing other pilots ( with maybe the introduction of a new skill ) to be able to use the same ship and receive more or less response to the ships jump drive fatigue. Otherwise if it is completely attached to a character, you will find people seeding alts to quickly move captial ships around....unless this was considered as a means to increase active accounts. Yet i feel pretty certain pressuring players to use alts to leap frog ships will result in a negative reputation to the game and have an adverse effect.


way to much time and money for alts to be a reasonable work around. big alliances will just use multiple players and not be slowed down.

a drug/skill to reduce fatigue would be cool but i doubt that will happen since it would literally be undoing what they are trying to do

delayed arrival would be a horrible plan unless your goal is to blow up every carrier in the game. I can use the map to see cynos light and with over a minute delay in the ARRIVAL of a cap ship there will be hostiles sitting on the wreck of your cyno when you show up in system.

the fact is this will only make non enormous alliances fail cascade from overworked logistics teams and small alliances won't even be able to try. the major alliances will just stock even more caps at even more locations and deal with switching pilots and using gates for logistics. frankly, it will give the F1 monkeys more to do since they will need escort freighters more often.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
Viral Society
#7218 - 2014-10-06 17:54:05 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:



Yeah it's not just in game either: Relevant


That is some quality butthurt right there. I wonder if this falls under the out of game harrassment guidelines?



To be clear, I found that in a google search, while looking for past CCP Greyscale quotes.

So my hands are clean.


I wasn't referencing you mate, it's all good. I meant whoever started the petition.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Degnar Oskold
Moira.
Villore Accords
#7219 - 2014-10-06 17:59:10 UTC
Building on my earlier thoughts, I also like this change because I believe it will shake up null politics and thus benefit us lowsec dwellers.

Today, the optimal situation for a territory-owning entity is to be part of the largest political faction it can get into. A large faction, or coalition, can project a large number of pilots rapidly across many different locations, and can thus effectively protect all of its territory.

After these changes, a large faction can only project all of its pilots quickly to one or 2 locations. Being part of a large faction now doesn't guarantee that your space will be protected; instead it will only be protected if the faction fleet is not fatigued.

Eventually larger factions will be forced to split into smaller, more local ones, defined by reasonable gate to gate travel times. Initially these will be bound by ties of former kinship, but over time tensions will build and wars will start and New Eden will be aflame.

Without power projection at full strength, larger null empires will inevitably fall apart as local alliances will be more reliable.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#7220 - 2014-10-06 17:59:38 UTC
I think people raged themselves into submission. The thread is slowing down.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.