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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#7181 - 2014-10-06 14:46:52 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/YA0-XJ

Station is named "CCP Fire Greyscale"

Something tells me they're butthurt...

Actually, alot of GSF stations has been renamed to that...



Goons won't at all be affected by these changes, in fact they'll just grow stronger. They also aren't posting in this thread crying their eyes out.



From Chribba:

http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/376666-1


your point..

Most of goonswarm members who have posted in this thread are not crying but are in fact laughing because they know that these changes will only make them stronger.




Then why do you continue to cry.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#7182 - 2014-10-06 14:47:53 UTC
I am completely cool with JF being subjected to the same jump limitations of other caps, lest they also become a method for force projection (yes they are designed for logistics but you can still jump your pilot around in them and it wouldn't take more than a day before that becomes exploited)
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#7183 - 2014-10-06 14:49:29 UTC
killerlman wrote:
Only things that i must to say is *Negative* are changes to BLOPs and JFs. Thats reaaaaly doesnt fit to the jump drives/whatever changes.


BLOPS balance is still up for discussion based on the dev talk on the first page of thread. Really hoping it gets exempted in some way or exempted with blockade runner/T3 bridging restrictions or something.

Every day I'm wafflin!
Psyentific
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7184 - 2014-10-06 14:56:23 UTC
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:

It's like they gathered all our wives in a room together to find a way to kill the game.



This is akin to the red wedding, Very stupid and poorly thought out bandage to address the power projection problem.



What do you do to nerf pilots who have taken three solid years to max out their carrier skills and make them consider quitting?
Then the newbies think oh this is going to be fun now i can get out there and take over from the blue donut. Well kid you see out here in tenal you need to do now over 10 jumps just to sell your stuff and ten more to get back. Newbie would say f that! Industry to be in tenal and then making it harder and even more tedious to do the daily grind is not a good idea and then you have to do that equation in your head is this fun or should I look for a different internet space ship game to go pew pew in?

Ive for the last three years been grinding my skills to be a solid capital pilot and these changes are not in my interest. I live in nullsec and I do want to have good thought out changes to make my fun time better but these in my humble opinion arent.
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#7185 - 2014-10-06 14:58:49 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I am completely cool with JF being subjected to the same jump limitations of other caps, lest they also become a method for force projection (yes they are designed for logistics but you can still jump your pilot around in them and it wouldn't take more than a day before that becomes exploited)


In the era of cloaky nullified T3s, Interceptors, and Archons with 4AU warp speeds that can take gates, this isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. Rorquals can also jump clone vat bays around. Theres lots of ways to get pilots from point A to B.

Every day I'm wafflin!
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#7186 - 2014-10-06 15:01:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jean Luc Lemmont
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:



Yeah it's not just in game either: Relevant


That is some quality butthurt right there. I wonder if this falls under the out of game harrassment guidelines?

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7187 - 2014-10-06 15:02:41 UTC
I think CCP need to review the following

JF range - it does need to be bigger, currently 5LY is definitely not enough. Please give 50% more at least or, maybe a low slot module for them and only them?

Rouqual - needs more Fatigue than a JF. it's not designed/used to jump consecutively.

Decay rate - add to API so it can be seen, this way smart people (not me) can make a tool for FCs that allows people to input their API into it and it will give the readout to the FC of how much fatigue and then calculate everything for the FCs so they can see what will happen after a jump.

I also think eve needs an in game tool to tell you how many light-years it is between systems in game if your going to affect people with it.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#7188 - 2014-10-06 15:28:30 UTC
Toriessian wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I am completely cool with JF being subjected to the same jump limitations of other caps, lest they also become a method for force projection (yes they are designed for logistics but you can still jump your pilot around in them and it wouldn't take more than a day before that becomes exploited)


In the era of cloaky nullified T3s, Interceptors, and Archons with 4AU warp speeds that can take gates, this isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. Rorquals can also jump clone vat bays around. Theres lots of ways to get pilots from point A to B.



True, and I'm sure, at first, when people like goons find they are under siege from multiple fronts, they will try their best to keep to their current meta of 600+ people blobbing systems with caps. At first I bet they will stockpile ships all over...and have massive inty fleets to try to move their pilots from one op zone to the next. But when we are talking 40 plus jumps to traverse your blue donut...yeah, that aint gonna be working very long. The first step in overcoming Sovaholism is overcoming denial.

Mona Me
poon-tang
#7189 - 2014-10-06 15:29:51 UTC
Wanting to move to null someday/year and having trained for it. My biggest fear is that ccp has chosen a path, right or wrong on how to fix the game and is going to stick with the current plan simply because of the time/effort they already have vested in that plan. Regardless of if a better solution has been offered in this (or any other) thread.

My next fear is that no one seems to be pushing for any of those other ideas. Giving me the sense that what ccp has put forth is the best idea.

I guess I will just have to "Pull down my pants and slide on the ice" till I see how it all works out...

A fix for the whole game, just send everyone through the mysterious estrogen anomaly!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-WBKah3uwgLol
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#7190 - 2014-10-06 15:32:54 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/YA0-XJ

Station is named "CCP Fire Greyscale"

Something tells me they're butthurt...

Actually, alot of GSF stations has been renamed to that...



Goons won't at all be affected by these changes, in fact they'll just grow stronger. They also aren't posting in this thread crying their eyes out.



From Chribba:

http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/376666-1


your point..

Most of goonswarm members who have posted in this thread are not crying but are in fact laughing because they know that these changes will only make them stronger.




Then why do you continue to cry.

In the long run, they cannot enforce renters to pay anymore and defend their space, along with their own. Nor will their members go gate to gate under heavy TiDi, they'll get burned out fast...

...
twit brent
Never Not AFK
#7191 - 2014-10-06 15:37:30 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I am completely cool with JF being subjected to the same jump limitations of other caps, lest they also become a method for force projection (yes they are designed for logistics but you can still jump your pilot around in them and it wouldn't take more than a day before that becomes exploited)


In the era of cloaky nullified T3s, Interceptors, and Archons with 4AU warp speeds that can take gates, this isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. Rorquals can also jump clone vat bays around. Theres lots of ways to get pilots from point A to B.



True, and I'm sure, at first, when people like goons find they are under siege from multiple fronts, they will try their best to keep to their current meta of 600+ people blobbing systems with caps. At first I bet they will stockpile ships all over...and have massive inty fleets to try to move their pilots from one op zone to the next. But when we are talking 40 plus jumps to traverse your blue donut...yeah, that aint gonna be working very long. The first step in overcoming Sovaholism is overcoming denial.



No we will just have 2 600 man fleets. I will finally have a reason to use more than 1 of my cap pilots.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#7192 - 2014-10-06 15:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Remove jump drives entirely, make all the things go through gates. No more crazy jump-fatigue math and timers. Done.

(Except jump freighters, rorquals and perhaps BLOPS..)

F

Would you like to know more?
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#7193 - 2014-10-06 15:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Toriessian
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I am completely cool with JF being subjected to the same jump limitations of other caps, lest they also become a method for force projection (yes they are designed for logistics but you can still jump your pilot around in them and it wouldn't take more than a day before that becomes exploited)


In the era of cloaky nullified T3s, Interceptors, and Archons with 4AU warp speeds that can take gates, this isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. Rorquals can also jump clone vat bays around. Theres lots of ways to get pilots from point A to B.



True, and I'm sure, at first, when people like goons find they are under siege from multiple fronts, they will try their best to keep to their current meta of 600+ people blobbing systems with caps. At first I bet they will stockpile ships all over...and have massive inty fleets to try to move their pilots from one op zone to the next. But when we are talking 40 plus jumps to traverse your blue donut...yeah, that aint gonna be working very long. The first step in overcoming Sovaholism is overcoming denial.



They could certainly send two 300 man boot fleets in two directions gate to gate though. I totally believe that to be in the realm of possibility for the CFC. In an era of EVE where you can't batphone because the reinforcements can't get there via cynos, is anyone going to be able to stop anything involving 300 Boots/slows going gate to gate?

*Note removed as I was wrong on the clone vat limit :)

They can be fit for a 4AU warp speed which is very similar to a frigate and refit on the fly too.

I'm just not willing to say gameplay benefits of making logistics hard is worth it if the reason is "capital pilot taxis". If thats the only reason to nerf JFs, I say the concern is unwarranted. If there are other reasons to nerf JFs, thats a different discussion.

Every day I'm wafflin!
Dreaded Vengance
Godless Horizon.
OnlyFleets.
#7194 - 2014-10-06 15:49:56 UTC
John McCreedy wrote:
Dreaded Vengance wrote:
Creamdream wrote:
These are very interesting changes however :

JUMP FREIGHTERS REALLY SHOULD HAVE LONGER THAN 5 LIGHT YEAR JUMP RANGE OTHERWISE IT WILL BECOME A NIGHTMARE.


There was a time when people hauling stuff into low/null for $$profit had to take risks, low sec freighters with an escort was an actual thing. I used to herd blockade runners deep into null where my small corp managed to carve out a little bit of it and called it home for a while. Eve was big, sometimes scary and you had to work at it to get the rewards.

Adapt or poast in caps, up to you I guess.




They did it in Tech 1 Haulers which even back then cost considerably less than a Freighter does today. It moved faster so only really needed a scout, not an escort and there where a hell of a lot less people in Eve and living in Low Sec than there are today. How much do you think your shiny ships in Empire are going to cost when Alliances start having to transport their moon goo in T1 Haulers? Try to look at the bigger picture and get your facts historically accurate.


'They' were me and you're inaccurate I'm afraid.

T1 haulers have and will always be considerably cheaper than freighters, there were fewer people in every part of space. Your point?

IMO shiny ships should be extremely expensive and very rare.

Hopefully this will see the alliances monopoly on moons challenged as they simply will not be able to bridge their blobs from one side of the map to another. Maybe they will let some go, maybe they will have localised forces, maybe they will pay someone to sit on them, it's speculative and we won't find out until it happens. There's a bigger picture there all right.


Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7195 - 2014-10-06 15:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhul Chembull
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=377708&find=unread

Not sure if Greyscale is still reading this, but a solution to the problem of new players not being able to easily get to their new corporations HQ is suggested above.

Despite people crying about it: There is no such problem because the tool to do this is already there: it's called Clone Vat Bay. Let me quote what I wrote in another thread in F&I:

Jump a Rorqual with a Clone Vat Bay to a lowsec system close to highsec, let every new member go there in a shuttle or pod, create a clone and jump all of them out to wherever you desire. Once you're there they can jumpclone without any risk. The rookie only needs one rank 1 skill at level 1 for it. A Rorqual can carry up to 75 clones (let me write that out: SEVENTYFIVE) that way in one go and gets the same bonuses for jump cooldowns as a jumpfreighter.

Personally I find the laziness and/or lack of resourcefullness of all the people who are crying about this disgusting. Are you sure you're playing the right game?



I didn't think your posts could get any sillier, but I was mistaken. Too bad you cant jump past the point of the perma camp that will encompass the edges of low/null to do your grand plan.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7196 - 2014-10-06 16:03:13 UTC
Toriessian wrote:
BTW those 300 carriers could bring 4 rorqs with them and literally dump an entire subcap fleet into system with no cynos involved. A little Jump Clone planning with those vat bays is all thats needed.

4 rorquals...whole subcap fleet?
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#7197 - 2014-10-06 16:04:36 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Most of goonswarm members who have posted in this thread are not crying but are in fact laughing because they know that these changes will only make them stronger.





Yes yes yes, keep at it.


Btw, here's a top tip for any corp, alliance or whatever, who isn't top predator within their group, coalition or area: Since the fierce 0.0 PVP bears will lose the capability to (on a regular basis) attack people all the way over there using the titan bus (comfortably far away from their own home) they will start to look for targets closer to home to keep their F1 cattle entertained, because if they don't they'll doze off and stop logging in.

This means that you could be the next target and it won't happen in a "oops, now you're red" kind of way. Per usual some drama will happen (fuelled by alts), your assets will go missing, infighting will start and then you'll be informed that you're just not a constructive part of the coalition anymore and they have no other choice than to reset you (while they'll be stealing your assets and assimilating your best pilots). It has happened before and it'll happen again, and a lot more because of the upcoming changes.


I suggest you folks put some good thought into how that's going to work out.


I am pretty sure this change makes indeed deployment difficult for us and other groups, so people can bet on we will organise more "Burn Jita" events and Hulkageddon like stuff. Given the fact we of the glorious CFC live close by Caldari space, there is a big probability we will pop in now and then to torch and pillage the place.

Hey, its all in good fun. :)
Gwailar
Doomheim
#7198 - 2014-10-06 16:04:43 UTC
Noble Noob wrote:
Proposed idea to address this:

1. Each ship gets a JF attribute that is used when calculating a jump. Frigs very little and caps a large amount. This also allows CCP to adjust as needed for specific ships without affecting every player in Eve.


So then, jump pilots rapidly around the universe in small ships so they can arrive at prepared cap caches with low fatigue.


Noble Noob wrote:

2. Each system gets a JF attribute based on sec and region, etc. This allows CCP to make some areas easier to get to or harder to get to. And they can even build an almost impossible wall (a mountain) anywhere they want. This attaches the JF more to the map not the character.


How is the effect different than the >5LY gaps already in place? This change doesn't just include jump fatigue. It also includes range reductions.


Noble Noob wrote:

3. Each system gets a JF attribute based on leaving or entering the system. This means that what direction you are jumping will make a difference. This allows CCP to make easy paths or very hard paths in space. There can be fast lanes or slow lanes or lumpy lanes.


Umm. What? Why?
Technically difficult to achieve. A pain for everyone to track. Of dubious value.


Noble Noob wrote:

1. A system that is set as Home system by corp/alliance has a large JF add on.
This means jumping caps into that system will be very difficult. Subcaps would still be able to jump in if they have been careful about JF. So subcaps jump in and clear a way for the caps to come through the gate.


Jumping into systems is already difficult by virtue of the fact that you have to build up fatigue to get to them. That is to say, jumping to a home system already has a large fatigue add because you have to, you know--jump--to get to it.


Noble Noob wrote:

2. JF is connected to a players distance from his corp/alliance home system. This allows defenders to jump a little more than attackers. Those traveling across the map to attack will get hit harder and harder the farther they go. At some point along the way they will need to start using gates instead. This will affect large ships more, so sub caps could move faster and lead the way or clear the way for the caps.


This is already exactly what the current system does: "Those traveling across the map to attack will get hit harder and harder the farther they go. At some point along the way they will need to start using gates instead."


"This may seem like a complex system . . . "

Not seems. Is.

Make no mistake, I congratulate you for thinking things through and offering solutions.
However I don't see how your additionally-complex proposals offer any real difference from the current system beyond completely nerfing the nerf to cap pilot travel.

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#7199 - 2014-10-06 16:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Toriessian
Rowells wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
BTW those 300 carriers could bring 4 rorqs with them and literally dump an entire subcap fleet into system with no cynos involved. A little Jump Clone planning with those vat bays is all thats needed.

4 rorquals...whole subcap fleet?


I may be wrong on the limit but I thought 75 clones was the number it could hold. Googling for that one and its not as easy as typing "EVE Clone vat bay limit" unfortunately =/

*I've removed that note as the limit was 10 :). Now as long as the documentation was correct we're all set. Said docs were from 2011 lol...

Every day I'm wafflin!
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#7200 - 2014-10-06 16:20:18 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Jump a Rorqual with a Clone Vat Bay to a lowsec system close to highsec, let every new member go there in a shuttle or pod, create a clone and jump all of them out to wherever you desire. Once you're there they can jumpclone without any risk. The rookie only needs one rank 1 skill at level 1 for it. A Rorqual can carry up to 75 clones (let me write that out: SEVENTYFIVE) that way in one go and gets the same bonuses for jump cooldowns as a jumpfreighter.

Personally I find the laziness and/or lack of resourcefullness of all the people who are crying about this disgusting. Are you sure you're playing the right game?


I didn't think your posts could get any sillier, but I was mistaken. Too bad you cant jump past the point of the perma camp that will encompass the edges of low/null to do your grand plan.

Do you really need everything spoon-fed? Let it join your logistics operation which has to cross these choke points anyway.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !