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What's up with drone targeting inconsistency?
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Austrene Kanenald
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-10-06 09:37:43 UTC
I can run 1 anom, drones don't get targeted at all. Next anom I run (same type), my drones are getting primaried by everything and I need to recall every 10 seconds.
Solecist Project
#2 - 2014-10-06 09:46:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
It's inconsistent, because that makes sense.

If it was the same all the time, it would be a bit predictable ... no?


Also: WOOOO TEST! \o/ :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Austrene Kanenald
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-10-06 10:08:44 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
It's inconsistent, because that makes sense.

If it was the same all the time, it would be a bit predictable ... no?


Also: WOOOO TEST! \o/ :D

It should be following some sort of mechanic though..
TEST is the best! \o/
Solecist Project
#4 - 2014-10-06 10:14:58 UTC
It does. Randomness. :)
That way you have to adapt to each situation anew,
which is better than having people be able to predict even more what's coming.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Austrene Kanenald
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-10-06 10:17:10 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
It does. Randomness. :)
That way you have to adapt to each situation anew,
which is better than having people be able to predict even more what's coming.

Meh, I just find it annoying and it decreases my DPS because I don't want to drop 5m drones (navies) when I lose 1-2 an hour.
Solecist Project
#6 - 2014-10-06 10:24:32 UTC
And thus means it's working as intended.

EVE is real, after all. If the only feelings you get are satisfaction and gratification,
it would be like all the lesser games out there. :)

In no other game you will find such a variety of feelings created in the players! :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-10-06 11:02:14 UTC
Austrene Kanenald wrote:
I can run 1 anom, drones don't get targeted at all. Next anom I run (same type), my drones are getting primaried by everything and I need to recall every 10 seconds.


Wow...just wow.


Of course it's unpredictable, otherwise we would have all of you AFK farming all over again.


Man up, PLAY the game, don't be lazy.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-10-06 11:03:20 UTC
Austrene Kanenald wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
It's inconsistent, because that makes sense.

If it was the same all the time, it would be a bit predictable ... no?


Also: WOOOO TEST! \o/ :D

It should be following some sort of mechanic though..
TEST is the best! \o/


It does...it's called random number generation which is related to what is target.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Cherri Minoa
Serendipity Technologies Inc
#9 - 2014-10-06 11:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Cherri Minoa
I'm all for an element of randomness in AI behaviour, but I am not convinced that's the full explanation here, although it may be part of it.

If I run the same anomaly multiple times, using the same strategy each time, targeting NPCs in the same order at the same ranges, I can guarantee that my drones will escape undamaged every time. I can also ensure that the NPCs target my main ship and not my alt in the logi.

There is a complex mix of factors (in addition to a degree of randomness) which decides how the AI behaves and which targets it chooses. I suspect if you experiment enough you will find a strategy that works reliably.

"If I had been censured every time I have run my ship, or fleets under my command, into great danger, I should have long ago been out of the Service" - Horatio Nelson
Solecist Project
#10 - 2014-10-06 11:11:46 UTC
I feel like J'Poll doesn't even read answers of others .......

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Austrene Kanenald
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-10-06 11:21:21 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Austrene Kanenald wrote:
I can run 1 anom, drones don't get targeted at all. Next anom I run (same type), my drones are getting primaried by everything and I need to recall every 10 seconds.


Wow...just wow.


Of course it's unpredictable, otherwise we would have all of you AFK farming all over again.


Man up, PLAY the game, don't be lazy.

I do play the game. I don't AFK rat. Read my responses.
Cherri Minoa wrote:
I'm all for an element of randomness in AI behaviour, but I am not convinced that's the full explanation here, although it may be part of it.

If I run the same anomaly multiple times, using the same strategy each time, targeting NPCs in the same order at the same ranges, I can guarantee that my drones will escape undamaged every time. I can also ensure that the NPCs target my main ship and not my alt in the logi.

There is a complex mix of factors (in addition to a degree of randomness) which decides how the AI behaves and which targets it chooses. I suspect if you experiment enough you will find a strategy that works reliably.

Really? Every time I run it, I warp in at 70, orbit the lowest battleship at 50, deploy drones at 55, lock up the closest cruisers first (no frigates in these anoms), engage the first one. Sometimes they'll attack my drones, sometimes not. I think it might have something to do with the distance between me and my drones though, because they only seem to target swap when I'm near them.. I haven't gotten to test this yet though, going out now to do so.
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2014-10-06 11:26:33 UTC
Do you have a gun fitted to aggro the rats?
Austrene Kanenald
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-10-06 11:27:35 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Do you have a gun fitted to aggro the rats?

Nope, haven't felt like going through to find which one has decent accuracy at 50k.
I might try that as well..
Cherri Minoa
Serendipity Technologies Inc
#14 - 2014-10-06 11:29:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cherri Minoa
Austrene Kanenald wrote:

Really? Every time I run it, I warp in at 70, orbit the lowest battleship at 50, deploy drones at 55, lock up the closest cruisers first (no frigates in these anoms), engage the first one. Sometimes they'll attack my drones, sometimes not. I think it might have something to do with the distance between me and my drones though, because they only seem to target swap when I'm near them.. I haven't gotten to test this yet though, going out now to do so.


Can you let me know which anomaly it is? I'll test it as well when I get a chance.

Ka'Narlist wrote:
Do you have a gun fitted to aggro the rats?


That is part of the strategy is use, excecpt I use my target painter. If the cruisers or frigates are getting a bit unruly, give them a quick poke with the painter.

"If I had been censured every time I have run my ship, or fleets under my command, into great danger, I should have long ago been out of the Service" - Horatio Nelson
Austrene Kanenald
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-10-06 11:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Austrene Kanenald
Cherri Minoa wrote:
Austrene Kanenald wrote:

Really? Every time I run it, I warp in at 70, orbit the lowest battleship at 50, deploy drones at 55, lock up the closest cruisers first (no frigates in these anoms), engage the first one. Sometimes they'll attack my drones, sometimes not. I think it might have something to do with the distance between me and my drones though, because they only seem to target swap when I'm near them.. I haven't gotten to test this yet though, going out now to do so.


Can you let me know which anomaly it is? I'll test it as well when I get a chance.

Forsaken Hub, I run it in a speed tanked VNI.
My theory was wrong (large distance between drones when I send them to engage = no target swap), now trying the reverse and then using a gun to hold aggro.
That theory didn't work either, the drones instantly got aggroed. Gun time!
Testing with 2*200mm Railgun I loaded with Iron Charge M.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-10-06 11:32:44 UTC
Austrene Kanenald wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Austrene Kanenald wrote:
I can run 1 anom, drones don't get targeted at all. Next anom I run (same type), my drones are getting primaried by everything and I need to recall every 10 seconds.


Wow...just wow.


Of course it's unpredictable, otherwise we would have all of you AFK farming all over again.


Man up, PLAY the game, don't be lazy.

I do play the game. I don't AFK rat. Read my responses.
.


You might not, but if anything is using a fixed protocol...it's predictable and thus people can exploit it.


Look at old drone A.I, as soon as they had a target, they NEVER switched.

So people warped in their brick tank ship, pull all aggro and then release their drones on aggressive...And walk away as the drones did all the work without any risk of losing anything (ship was build to tank everything).


Hence why the new randomness is a good thing, it prevent "unintended" use of things.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-10-06 11:34:19 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Cherri Minoa wrote:
I'm all for an element of randomness in AI behaviour, but I am not convinced that's the full explanation here, although it may be part of it.

If I run the same anomaly multiple times, using the same strategy each time, targeting NPCs in the same order at the same ranges, I can guarantee that my drones will escape undamaged every time. I can also ensure that the NPCs target my main ship and not my alt in the logi.

There is a complex mix of factors (in addition to a degree of randomness) which decides how the AI behaves and which targets it chooses. I suspect if you experiment enough you will find a strategy that works reliably.


Yes.

It's called threat assesment.

Drones will switch targets to the ship / other drone that they class as the biggest threat.

Tip: Read the Drone A.I. change dev blog. It lists how they changed their behaviour etc.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Austrene Kanenald
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-10-06 11:34:42 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Austrene Kanenald wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Austrene Kanenald wrote:
I can run 1 anom, drones don't get targeted at all. Next anom I run (same type), my drones are getting primaried by everything and I need to recall every 10 seconds.


Wow...just wow.


Of course it's unpredictable, otherwise we would have all of you AFK farming all over again.


Man up, PLAY the game, don't be lazy.

I do play the game. I don't AFK rat. Read my responses.
.


You might not, but if anything is using a fixed protocol...it's predictable and thus people can exploit it.


Look at old drone A.I, as soon as they had a target, they NEVER switched.

So people warped in their brick tank ship, pull all aggro and then release their drones on aggressive...And walk away as the drones did all the work without any risk of losing anything (ship was build to tank everything).


Hence why the new randomness is a good thing, it prevent "unintended" use of things.

The "randomness" only applies to that start for me. As long as my drones don't get targeted by the time they're at their first target, I don't need to do anything except watch and wait.
Austrene Kanenald
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-10-06 11:35:38 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Cherri Minoa wrote:
I'm all for an element of randomness in AI behaviour, but I am not convinced that's the full explanation here, although it may be part of it.

If I run the same anomaly multiple times, using the same strategy each time, targeting NPCs in the same order at the same ranges, I can guarantee that my drones will escape undamaged every time. I can also ensure that the NPCs target my main ship and not my alt in the logi.

There is a complex mix of factors (in addition to a degree of randomness) which decides how the AI behaves and which targets it chooses. I suspect if you experiment enough you will find a strategy that works reliably.


Yes.

It's called threat assesment.

Drones will switch targets to the ship / other drone that they class as the biggest threat.

Tip: Read the Drone A.I. change dev blog. It lists how they changed their behaviour etc.

That doesn't seem to be very random based, why do they not always target the drones if that's the case?
Bagatur I
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-10-06 11:36:10 UTC
I noticed that it is only elite frigs that switch aggro on your drones every once in a while. normal npc ships dont switch aggro once they started attacking your ship.
anyone can confirm?
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