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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7101 - 2014-10-06 06:28:38 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
The quotes are out there that this guy loaths aspects of this game, and is now in a position to *experiment* with his theorycrafting on our meta-level emergent game play that breaks his Utopian view of what EVE 'should' be... vs. what it is.

And hilarious enough, the player will again shape what eve is vs what it was designed to be...

Truth!


Which is why I'm at a loss at what in the world he thinks he's gonna accomplish?! What's next, de-skill all players over 6 years in game and remove captial ships altogether in the name of 'saving the game' once this doesn't work the way they want it to??

O.o

Sometimes, you just end up living in a realm where the Almighty has no idea what is happening and for what reasons.

Perhaps in order to move the doomsday away from being like shooting a reallly slow gun, Titans should actually have a doomsday fatigue. To be flexible, they can fire it more quickly by using up more fuel. This is to stimulate the isotope market, much like other changes related to fuel.

Or no wait, perhaps taking gates should require fuel if you have a jump drive.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7102 - 2014-10-06 06:39:57 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rowells wrote:
We gotta be at least somewhat realistic. Understand that their will always be groups that are way out of your league (I have no illusions my alliance will suddenly turn on goons and emerge victorious.)

Already smarter than certain warmongers in Test, I see.

Though to be honest it wouldn't be an alliance-on-alliance fight, you know the whole coalition would get in on that thing.

thats why its called the CFC
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7103 - 2014-10-06 06:50:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Rowells wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rowells wrote:
We gotta be at least somewhat realistic. Understand that their will always be groups that are way out of your league (I have no illusions my alliance will suddenly turn on goons and emerge victorious.)

Already smarter than certain warmongers in Test, I see.

Though to be honest it wouldn't be an alliance-on-alliance fight, you know the whole coalition would get in on that thing.

thats why its called the CFC

But if you had N3 PLBL Moa Pasta and so on third-partying...

Then victory would be nigh inevitable.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7104 - 2014-10-06 06:57:17 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rowells wrote:
We gotta be at least somewhat realistic. Understand that their will always be groups that are way out of your league (I have no illusions my alliance will suddenly turn on goons and emerge victorious.)

Already smarter than certain warmongers in Test, I see.

Though to be honest it wouldn't be an alliance-on-alliance fight, you know the whole coalition would get in on that thing.

thats why its called the CFC

But if you had N3 PLBL Moa Pasta and so on third-partying...

Then victory would be nigh inevitable.

B-R MkII anyone?
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7105 - 2014-10-06 07:02:46 UTC
t'raq mardon wrote:
C'Nedra Rain wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:
[quote]Upon further research into this topic, I find it impossibly easy for anyone in EVE to bypass this proposed feature. Let me explain.

A player needs to go to his/her staging system. Said staging system is 20ly away, or 4 jumps. Normally, this would take quite some time as Jump Fatigue would kick in for the pilot. However, this pilot has 4 alts (A, B, C, and D) besides the main character. All pilots can fly his/her carrier and has max jump skills. Instead of taking quite a bit of game time and risk getting to the staging system, this pilot simply pre-stages his/her alts in the systems ahead of time using nearly uncatchable interceptors. As such, the carrier gets to the staging system as such:



you miss something very important !! Now, because of the LY limitations you need more than 12 jumps to do the job and ofc nobody has 12 trained cap pilot alts to do what you say. Even you!


also, thats not a ridiculously long and expensive proposition at all. 12 alts all capable of flying [insert capital class here] with perfect jump skills. $45 per month for the three extra accounts and like 6 months per alt just to get trained...


Look at your numbers.
$45 a month extra for 3 more accounts. Not quite.

It's $15 a month per char per account to train them all (plex alts on the accounts) - so 11 more chars = $15 per = $165 more needed per month to get 11 more capital pilots.

Also 6 months: 6 x 165 = $990 ... You also won't have all of them UNTIL 6 months are done.

Trim costs and such as you like but you're going to have a ton of "no way in hell" in every SOV empire among cap pilots about such a "grand scheme work around!"

As such, other methods will be needed - especially for the first 6 months (and no, there aren't thousands of 'cap ready' vet chars on the bazaar).

So your empires won't be set to face this and it will be months on end to even get a few capable of pulling off such a stunt. It will literally require broader strategic planning than such a solution being as few players are going to find the extra costs acceptable.

Will they find other ways? Probably but not as broadly used as they currently are.

Also - with "staging areas"... These will become known. If you move 1,000 cap pilots across space, you won't be able to get them back to the other end before being eviscerated there once others see you cannot bounce-back to protect that area.

So every time you bounce a large population of cap pilots to this or that "depot" - you expose the fact you do *NOT* have the ability to guard your flank anymore.

All it takes to see this: Map -> Pilots docked... pilots in station.

It'll be no less regularly checked than "ships destroyed... pods killed.." for normal travel so trying to play sneaky & quick -- you'll need a hell of a lot more than 12 alts for that.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7106 - 2014-10-06 07:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Mocam wrote:
Also - with "staging areas"... These will become known. If you move 1,000 cap pilots across space, you won't be able to get them back to the other end before being eviscerated there once others see you cannot bounce-back to protect that area.

So every time you bounce a large population of cap pilots to this or that "depot" - you expose the fact you do *NOT* have the ability to guard your flank anymore.

Wait, you're saying pilots can't interceptor back before a 2day IHUB armor timer?

Now certainly, it is nice for subcaps to be more important, even if only because the apexforce can't always be there.

Instead of caps/subcaps, let us think of it as battleships and megabattleships

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7107 - 2014-10-06 07:13:25 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Wait, you're saying pilots can't interceptor back before a 2day IHUB armor timer?

Now certainly, it is nice for subcaps to be more important, even if only because the apexforce can't always be there.

Instead of caps/subcaps, let us think of it as battleships and megabattleships

You did read the stage 2 & 3 plans which are to reduce those 'mega timers' and put more objectives in a system that are smaller right? And even allow for partial control of a system with one alliance holding some assets and the other alliance holding the other assets?
That's probably where the other stuff comes in and ties in with these changes.
Migui X'hyrrn
No More Dramas Only Llamas
#7108 - 2014-10-06 07:16:07 UTC
The butthurt is real.

The more I read the changes, the more I like them. Sure some things need to be polished, but overall is good.

Keep spinning, it is hilarious.

Migui is running for CSM10!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7109 - 2014-10-06 07:22:31 UTC
Migui X'hyrrn wrote:
The butthurt is real.

The more I read the changes, the more I like them. Sure some things need to be polished, but overall is good.

Keep spinning, it is hilarious.

Ship spinning in station eh

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#7110 - 2014-10-06 07:52:39 UTC
Stargate jump fatigue for sub caps anyone?

Maybe even prevent ships with gate fatigue from burning back to gates to get out of possible gate camps... after all... jumping into systems and being "stuck" there is both good and desirable for a PvP game....

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Berry Myotis
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7111 - 2014-10-06 08:06:46 UTC
5ly jump limitation will be pain in the ass, but the rest of ideas look very interestig. It should generate more action in null sec for sure :)
Migui X'hyrrn
No More Dramas Only Llamas
#7112 - 2014-10-06 08:12:40 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Ship spinning in station eh


No i mean the oh we love this changes we are stronger than ever pls ccp nerf us because we have everything spin.

Without the next iteration steps. You only need to see the sell forums to see that the butthurt is real. Those guys selling titans like if they were sausages. This are the best tears we have seen in years, and it is only the begining.

I love you Greyscale.

Migui is running for CSM10!
BravoSierra
Unquantized
#7113 - 2014-10-06 08:23:13 UTC
These changes are amazing, I couldn't have dreamed of a better thread. Thanks, CCP.

Guess I need to sub a new alt or something... +1 account?

(Some map changes down the road would make me so, so happy)
Chow Draconis
Perkone
Caldari State
#7114 - 2014-10-06 08:44:59 UTC
No CCP. If you do this, it would take days if not weeks for ppl to transport their goods somewhere and if you lower the JF ranges them you just made it impossible for some places to be lived in. There is one jump that my JF character takes that if the range is lowered he can no longer make it because all the other jumps will be through places that the JF can not dock at. There will be no more safe routes for Capitals anymore and congrats bucause if this happen then the price for all Capitals will be raised very high because of all the loses.
Dart Aurel
Space Roar
#7115 - 2014-10-06 08:53:25 UTC
Change in general is pretty nice. But reducing range for JF will kill logistic to distant regions: no one will make 25 jumps for a single JF run. For me that means I'll have to leave nullsec and get to high-/low-, which indeed means quitting the game.

CCP, please, don't reduce jump range for JFs.
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7116 - 2014-10-06 08:59:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsa Hayes
t'raq mardon wrote:
Elsa Hayes wrote:
t'raq mardon wrote:
[quote=Bl1SkR1N].......


Do you know the concept of scouts?

Do you also realize that this will create plenty of fights when people break up such gate camps to get their freighters through or just to break up those camps?

Do you realize that suddenly EvE gets back to necessary player interaction in null and not alts online?

All concepts alien to those who do not want to defend the space they are using who do not want to interact with others who do not join ops or CTA. In short all concepts alien to the true null bears.

This is why plenty of renters are crying and plenty of bitter vets are excited about this.



with a 40+ second align time a scout can really only do so much, especially when any choke point system that cuts that much travel off of a logy chain is going to be camped 23/7. thats the whole point, big alliances will be able to break a camp, small alliances won't

player interaction won't be necessary, it will be moot. unless you have the resources to build massive cap fleets in place or move them via gates with support you won't be able to hold space. There won't be any small gangs because they will get blapped by locals in capitals who will be confident that they won't loose their ships.

by bitter vets you must mean players who are part of alliances large enough to build cap fleets all over the map and have them in reserve for when they eventually have someone to fight. This change is going to take things right back to the days of BoB, untouchable super alliances that only die when they cascade from within


The scout will tell you if its safe to jump or not and if you are clever you use more than 1 scout, you will have scouts out several systems away, obviously that will be a little more stressful to coordinate if you want to do it all on your own with alts, which is where player interaction comes into play, spank your corp mates to help, hell spank your ally mates to help you.
Do I have to tell you how to play the game, how to adapt?

If the gate is camped either break the camp or wait some time. That is how null sec was supposed to work, people just got lazy over the years with jump bridges, jump freighters etc.

If you are camped organize a break out, oh dear a fight, we can´t have that. Even if you don´t want to move freighters you can break said camps or set up some yourself, again creating fights, creating content but again, fights we don´t want them do we? We want to run anoms 23/7, rat 23/7 and sell our phat lewt in Jita.

Which bring me back as to why the null bears cry about the changes and the bitter vets are largely excited about it, since if there is one thing for sure it is that these changes will create fights! Will they truly shake up null? Who knows but they will make things more interesting.

But again fighting is obviously, judging by all the rage and tears, the last thing the null bear wants.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#7117 - 2014-10-06 09:08:18 UTC
Chow Draconis wrote:
No CCP. If you do this, it would take days if not weeks for ppl to transport their goods somewhere and if you lower the JF ranges them you just made it impossible for some places to be lived in. There is one jump that my JF character takes that if the range is lowered he can no longer make it because all the other jumps will be through places that the JF can not dock at. There will be no more safe routes for Capitals anymore and congrats bucause if this happen then the price for all Capitals will be raised very high because of all the loses.



Guess your going to have to convince your peeps to provide escort...and yes that means someone or i should say a group of someones will have to babysit your JF in some circumstances.

EvE i believe is meant to be a multiplayer-team effort at some levels...being able to take your 6 accounts plus JF pilot and move stuff by yourself is just not going to cut anymore. Your in an alliance....im sure leaders will come up with a plan of action.
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#7118 - 2014-10-06 09:22:25 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Guess your going to have to convince your peeps to provide escort...and yes that means someone or i should say a group of someones will have to babysit your JF in some circumstances.

EvE i believe is meant to be a multiplayer-team effort at some levels...being able to take your 6 accounts plus JF pilot and move stuff by yourself is just not going to cut anymore. Your in an alliance....im sure leaders will come up with a plan of action.



Sorry my friend, but most JF moves have escorts already, and I don't mean cyno alts.

What this will do is force a lot of folks to have JF alts. With the amount of time required to skill a JF alt, not considering the cost of subscriptions and skill books, this is going to upset enough people that JF's will either crash in price or increase to maddening heights.

There is also the flip side to this, meaning that some jumps that are more than 5 LY's distance between systems will no longer be in range because they're more than the limit. Querious and Impass are two regions I know that simply trying to jump into or out of will now become impossible because even the closest solar systems are more distant than 5 LY.


Of course there is the conspiracy theory that CCP wants those regions to add more NPC systems and stations, but this would effectively rob the system owners of their SOV.

Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"!

POS fix dated back to 2006!
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#7119 - 2014-10-06 09:28:09 UTC
Elsa Hayes wrote:
t'raq mardon wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
[quote=t'raq mardon][quote=Bl1SkR1N]





if you are dumb enough to do that...yeah :) Natural selection, Eve ftw


yes because no one would ever die to a gate camp

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Bl1SkR1N


Do you know the concept of scouts?

Do you also realize that this will create plenty of fights when people break up such gate camps to get their freighters through or just to break up those camps?

Do you realize that suddenly EvE gets back to necessary player interaction in null and not alts online?

All concepts alien to those who do not want to defend the space they are using who do not want to interact with others who do not join ops or CTA. In short all concepts alien to the true null bears.

This is why plenty of renters are crying and plenty of bitter vets are excited about this.


i'm sorry, are you guys really ******** or what? do you even play this game? " fights to get their freighters trough?" there is no way a freighter should get even close to a fight, and even that only if you **** up badlly;
tell me again how you scout a cloaked cyno hic? or even a a cyno bomber? what will you do, when you jump your freigther convoy tru a gate, and a cyno hic uncloak,bubble up, open a cyno and drop, lets say, several dreads? dead freighters, that's what happens, and no amount of reps will allow you to keep those freighters alive...
like really, do you guys even know that today a freighter's warp speed is much slower that it was when freighter convoys where a thing? that at the time there weren't bubble immune ships, hics, throwaway dreads,40k ppl online, bazilions of spays...
any small group that will do "freighter convoys" to get into 0.0, deserve to lose them, and they will
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7120 - 2014-10-06 09:30:33 UTC
Ahhh page 360 - has this thread gone full circle?