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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Bezdar22
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#6901 - 2014-10-05 14:46:16 UTC
this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6902 - 2014-10-05 14:53:53 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
gazarsgo wrote:
I generally like these changes, and think they are necessary given the huge numbers of capitals currently in the game and the ease with which they are currently power projected.

I have a concern with the new fatigue mechanics applying to Black Ops battleships, however. Blacks Ops are currently underused. After this patch, they would quickly become superfluous -- there is no reason to use a Black Ops battleship over a regular battleship after jump fatigue prohibits further cynoing. Black Ops have weak tanks and relatively low DPS. If you're going to take gates through lowsec or 0.0, might as well use a regular BS over a Black Ops. Consequently, I would recommend that Black Ops battleships be immune from fatigue. That way, Black Ops could still be a quick "power projection" force across EVE, incentivizing their use. This would not make Black Ops overpowered -- Black Ops are paper-thin and expensive. It would be a real gamble to deploy a Black Ops fleet.


1. Not only the huge number of caps but the ability to move materials from high sec to 0.0 to build them. Wanting a farms and fields type game begins with terrain and preventing the JF from selling and shopping at JITA MART. What I find crazy is reading the addiction to high sec the current 0.0 groups have. I thought you guys hated high sec.

2. Making the use of BO tough again is fine and better for the game. Being selective with targets while using any jump capable ship should be better for the game period. As it is now BO are way to easy to use and I am for the fatigue changes as they are.

3. As for the BO BS we are still waiting for CCP Fozzy to give us a work over. It has almost been a year since the simple changes. It would be nice to get Tech 2 resist on our ships seeing how we are 1 of only 2 classes of tech 2 BS in the game.


Trade doesn't need a nerf. Nerfing JFs nerfs trade, nothing else. 28 mids out to Outer Passage isn't just a trade nerf - it's pretty much a devban on living there or any other of the far-flung regions.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#6903 - 2014-10-05 15:04:54 UTC
Bezdar22 wrote:
this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...



From what I'm reading on the 'other' EVE forum sites, as many people are claiming to be coming back to the game because of these changes as there are here swearing they're going to quit.

End result: No change in players subbed. Just the entitled leave and the ones that want a dynamic fun game come back.

Mr Epeen Cool
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6904 - 2014-10-05 15:05:53 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Bezdar22 wrote:
this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...



From what I'm reading on the 'other' EVE forum sites, as many people are claiming to be coming back to the game because of these changes as there are here swearing they're going to quit.

End result: No change in players subbed. Just the entitled leave and the ones that want a dynamic fun game come back.

Mr Epeen Cool


This may be the first time i actually agree with you

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Kalissis
#6905 - 2014-10-05 15:06:00 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
[quote=DNSBLACK]
Trade doesn't need a nerf. Nerfing JFs nerfs trade, nothing else. 28 mids out to Outer Passage isn't just a trade nerf - it's pretty much a devban on living there or any other of the far-flung regions.


You will see groups out there dont worry, you hardly see anyone in a lot of system nowadays there anyway so **** this current state.
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#6906 - 2014-10-05 15:14:10 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Bezdar22 wrote:
this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...



From what I'm reading on the 'other' EVE forum sites, as many people are claiming to be coming back to the game because of these changes as there are here swearing they're going to quit.

End result: No change in players subbed. Just the entitled leave and the ones that want a dynamic fun game come back.

Mr Epeen Cool


People always come back to check out changes, I can't wait to hear them cry when they can't move their stuff to wherever they want to go.

Oh, you left the game while playing in Venal? Welcome back, the CFC will be glad to help you move your stuff.

It's one of the many drawbacks of these changes, starting over just became a lot more difficult if you don't live in highsec.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6907 - 2014-10-05 15:24:03 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
It seems like this could be fixed up if some kind of a penalty is applied when you leave the JF ship and switch to a different capital ship.

Speaking of "exploits", there's already a potential "exploit" with JFs getting used to get around to capitals with 90% reduction of fatigue.

This is where various ship-based modifiers to the the impact of distance on the jump timer, rate of fatigue accumulation, and impact of fatigue on the jump timer could come into play. This might let you give the JF a slightly longer range in exchange for a "more normal" fatigue accumulation, with a lower than normal impact on the jump timer. That way, if you use the JF to circumvent the usual speed limits, you'll still have a huge fatigue buildup when you hop into your combat vessel.

Same thing needs to be look at with respect to Rorquals.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6908 - 2014-10-05 15:27:59 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
It seems like this could be fixed up if some kind of a penalty is applied when you leave the JF ship and switch to a different capital ship.

Speaking of "exploits", there's already a potential "exploit" with JFs getting used to get around to capitals with 90% reduction of fatigue.

This is where various ship-based modifiers to the the impact of distance on the jump timer, rate of fatigue accumulation, and impact of fatigue on the jump timer could come into play. This might let you give the JF a slightly longer range in exchange for a "more normal" fatigue accumulation, with a lower than normal impact on the jump timer. That way, if you use the JF to circumvent the usual speed limits, you'll still have a huge fatigue buildup when you hop into your combat vessel.

Same thing needs to be look at with respect to Rorquals.

Oh gawd - this is perfect. I'm half-tempted to log in my cyno chain just to like this. Very nice.

CCP READ THIS>
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#6909 - 2014-10-05 15:28:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Mr Epeen wrote:
Bezdar22 wrote:
this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...



From what I'm reading on the 'other' EVE forum sites, as many people are claiming to be coming back to the game because of these changes as there are here swearing they're going to quit.

End result: No change in players subbed. Just the entitled leave and the ones that want a dynamic fun game come back.

Mr Epeen Cool


Now wouldn't it be great if they could not only retain established players but also bring jaded players back. Taking what is essentially a blunt instrument approach to this problem is not going to achieve that.

EDIT: I'm a ED backer and while not really playing it much at the moment keep half an eye on what is going on over there and for "various" reasons none the less beta2 its pulling a lot of established eve players at the moment - while I can't predict how it will turn out in the long term really not the time IMO to make controversial changes to eve and basically **** on a not insignificant percentage of the player base.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#6910 - 2014-10-05 15:33:54 UTC
Bezdar22 wrote:
this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...




Just only out of CFC and N3. Oh wait....

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6911 - 2014-10-05 15:34:00 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Hmmm, the thread slowed down. Seems the CFC whine train ran out of steam, perhaps they just ran out of tears to shed.

Have a closer look at who is posting, very few goons are against this, you know why, because it benefits them more then anybody else.

They have the manpower to cope with the changes. They have the Capital ships to defend their home systems, they have the isk to seed system after system with carriers and dreads and they are going to have even more isk after these changes.

Nice propaganda, you're doing great.

He's right actually. Gewnspace is closer to empire, they've got a ridiculously competent logistics crew in GSOL, they've got excellent management tools, they've got smart folks who are already gaming out where they need to stash a bazillion caps and jump clones to make putting out fires in Delve and Tenal the same day practical. They're in a pretty damn good position truth be told.

It's going to hit those folks who live in the south and east a lot harder, due to topography and a lack of polished management tools, not to mention a lack of professional masochists in GSOL.

The open question is whether folks can exploit that proximity to empire to run Gewns ragged trying to manage their scattered empire. Gewns have the hulls, the organization, and the manpower. Question is whether they've got a deep enough FC bench to start running more distributed fleets, and how long it takes folks on the other side to put significant pressure over a wide enough area.

It'll be fun to watch, no doubt. Made a run to Costco to stock up on popcorn, in fact.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#6912 - 2014-10-05 15:41:24 UTC
Jin Kugu wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Bezdar22 wrote:
this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...



From what I'm reading on the 'other' EVE forum sites, as many people are claiming to be coming back to the game because of these changes as there are here swearing they're going to quit.

End result: No change in players subbed. Just the entitled leave and the ones that want a dynamic fun game come back.

Mr Epeen Cool


People always come back to check out changes, I can't wait to hear them cry when they can't move their stuff to wherever they want to go.

Oh, you left the game while playing in Venal? Welcome back, the CFC will be glad to help you move your stuff.

It's one of the many drawbacks of these changes, starting over just became a lot more difficult if you don't live in highsec.

The people coming back are just as likely to be CFC players that were sick of the stagnation. I doubt they'll be crying much.

Mr Epeen Cool
Monasucks
BLACK SQUADRON.
Get Off My Lawn
#6913 - 2014-10-05 15:42:28 UTC
Bezdar22 wrote:
this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...



sadly yes

Monasucks Tumblr

Twitter

"A good worker is a live worker. Free to live - and work! A bad worker is a dead worker; and vice versa. Don't be a bad worker; bad workers are slaves, and dead."
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6914 - 2014-10-05 15:45:55 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Yes, over 11x more carebearing in nullsec, no time to fight.

CCP created lowsec to train the fighters...

LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS!!!!

I can't shake the feeling that it didn't used to be this way back in the old days. Which is why I love FW so much - reminds me of the good old days before Supercaps Online and galaxy-wide hegemonies.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#6915 - 2014-10-05 15:47:18 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
Veskrashen wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Hmmm, the thread slowed down. Seems the CFC whine train ran out of steam, perhaps they just ran out of tears to shed.

Have a closer look at who is posting, very few goons are against this, you know why, because it benefits them more then anybody else.

They have the manpower to cope with the changes. They have the Capital ships to defend their home systems, they have the isk to seed system after system with carriers and dreads and they are going to have even more isk after these changes.

Nice propaganda, you're doing great.

He's right actually. Gewnspace is closer to empire, they've got a ridiculously competent logistics crew in GSOL, they've got excellent management tools, they've got smart folks who are already gaming out where they need to stash a bazillion caps and jump clones to make putting out fires in Delve and Tenal the same day practical. They're in a pretty damn good position truth be told.

It's going to hit those folks who live in the south and east a lot harder, due to topography and a lack of polished management tools, not to mention a lack of professional masochists in GSOL.

The open question is whether folks can exploit that proximity to empire to run Gewns ragged trying to manage their scattered empire. Gewns have the hulls, the organization, and the manpower. Question is whether they've got a deep enough FC bench to start running more distributed fleets, and how long it takes folks on the other side to put significant pressure over a wide enough area.

It'll be fun to watch, no doubt. Made a run to Costco to stock up on popcorn, in fact.


That's the spirit. It is going to take us 2-3 years to fully set this game back on fire. We are still feeling the effects of the TECH moons empire and the isk pooling it caused. We need these changes to be in place for at least 2 years for this game to be back to regional fighting and neighborhood brawls.

What will be fun to watch is the rise of this next great Russian alliance in this game. Also the return of the drake army LOL. All that was old is new again.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6916 - 2014-10-05 15:58:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nazri al Mahdi
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Bezdar22 wrote:
this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...




Just only out of CFC and N3. Oh wait....

AFAIK the CFC is perfectly situated. Each of their alliances is strong enough to handle any sewage that washes in from empire in a border region - they have Goonswam for crying out loud. N3PL is the same, and can see them a Nulli Secunda, an NCDot, and a freaking Pandemic Legion.

Grath and Manny of PL are sobbing tears - of bloodjoy - at these changes, while Mittens cackles maniacally to thundercracks in his belfry.

Small entities wanting to seize outlying areas of nullsec will not be able to supply and will be roamed by the same people who roam there today, only without the ability to sustain resistance. Established entities in the far reaches of nullsec - even small renters - will adapt to these changes because they are attached to the ruling coalitions.

Nothing changes, but the game gets less fun because of much more time spent doing indy and logistics crap.

Fix the JF so it gets 7.5ly or greater range at the cost of more normal fatigue, as someone suggested earlier, and give the hull a reduction to fatigue impact so that it is only felt if JF is used as combat taxi when switching pilot to a different hull. Then the goals CCP has with this release will be met - a vibrant and combative nullsec with a budding industry.

There is no reason BLOPS should outrange jump freighters.

With 7.5ly range, it's only a devastating 14 mids to Outer Passage. With 5ly it's 28 - way too freaking much - it would be like traveling from Ancient Greece to Florida in a Trireme.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6917 - 2014-10-05 16:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Veskrashen
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Oh gawd - this is perfect. I'm half-tempted to log in my cyno chain just to like this. Very nice.

CCP READ THIS>

Wait, we agree on something?!?!?!?

EDIT: Still think the smart way to shorten the long ass run to deep dronelands is to take Paala -> LXQ2-T, and force your renter overlords to ensure it's safe. But that's me, and I get that a lot of folks who live that far out aren't exactly confident that'll happen.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#6918 - 2014-10-05 16:04:45 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
[quote=Bezdar22]this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...


There is no reason BLOPS should outrange jump freighters.

Why not?
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#6919 - 2014-10-05 16:06:03 UTC
#Almost 7k posts...
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6920 - 2014-10-05 16:08:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Nazri al Mahdi
Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
[quote=Bezdar22]this game is no longer players MMO..

tons of old player will leave game just coz of this changes...


There is no reason BLOPS should outrange jump freighters.

Why not?



BLOPS shouldn't out-range anything. If someone moves in with 50 blops and 500 bombers in a system and pounds you all day long, you should be able to counterdrop them with caps to grind out the sov and evict them from the system.

EDIT: and JF aren't even combat vessels. To have blops capable of harassing me with 14 mids from empire while I have to go 28 in my JF is not an attrition situation where the defender can reasonably be expected to defend.