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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6661 - 2014-10-04 18:25:51 UTC
Operative X10-4 wrote:
Eigenvalue wrote:
Operative X10-4 wrote:
Best change ever, just do it!
I cant wait to pick up a freighter full and jump gates in 0.0 with armed escort... I can see some crazy logistics being doing, like 10-20 freighters jumping gate to gate with armed squads protecting them, and fights happening around those supplies.


This actually used to be what happened before JF were introduced. Back before JF were introduced people *still* didn't locally produce in null. But they did long boring freighter escorts as a CTA constantly. It was horribly boring and caused null to be a empty wasteland of boredom.

Now realize they're not removing JF from the game, they're just making it harder to reach distant systems. So why would people supplying a market decide to take the most risky possible route? Wouldn't the sov holders just move their base of operations to the most easily accessible logistically? Isn't that simpler than creating a whole home grown industry or flying T1 freighters through gates?

Right now home systems are picked for their military ability to project or proximity to tasty PVE. That calculus doesn't include that much consideration for logistics. The balance of the equation will change slightly, so you'll see more concentration near highsec and much much less dispersion throughout nullsec regions. You'll see calcified and entrenched home systems and empty regions.


1 - I know that it happened before, People what to see it again. Due to the 0.0 sov changes more people are willing to move and live in 0.0 since after changes the possibility to conquer a small place to live even if you are not big as an corp or alliance seens to be possible, specially if people cant project their power in any place of eve in just 1 minute with a cyno chain. Maybe this time for once null will not be completely empty and boring as ****.

2 - So why logistic players are crying so much? Tbh they should remove JF from the game at all.

3 - If so the proximity to high sec at least will bring more possibility for small fights to happen

I see a good oportunity for industry focused characters as well.


Mostly we'll just abandon freighters altogether and use direct k-k connections from deep nullsec to empire.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#6662 - 2014-10-04 18:26:05 UTC
The intent is decent, kill jump drives as a means for long distance travel but allow hotdrops, but the exponential growth and two timers system is just too complicated. I've had to spend a long time explaining the maths to people in game and this won't improve when it gets released. Just simplify it, there is no reason for exponential growth. Pick a number, say one hour, and add that to fatigue regardless of distance. If you jump while you have fatigue you get a cooldown equal to your fatigue, both decay at the same rate. That would accomplish the same goal.
SanDooD
Perkone
Caldari State
#6663 - 2014-10-04 18:27:49 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Glathull wrote:
SanDooD wrote:


But it won't. That's the problem. Revenue should come from new subscriptions, sales of PLEX, etc. It shouldn't come from extortion. Forcing capital pilots to have 28-30 alts will not net them new revenue, because for every new cyno/capital jumper account they get, they will lose an existing player probably. If you think some of the old players won't quit over this, think again.

How many new accounts did they get after B-R battle? How many of those stayed active and are patient enough to wait to get into titan. Do you think these people started playing EVE because they think it's the best MMO out there? They want to be part of the fights like that one. Here comes CCP Nullsec Team to crush their dreams.

My Business Hat tells me that I should keep my existing customers first before I try to get new ones, and extorting more money from my existing customers is not a good customer relationship.



If you are seriously using 20-something alts to play this game, you are doing something extremely wrong.



Indeed.

No one is forcing anyone to use alts. It's a matter of convenience that people with a lot of money consider a basic necessity rather than a nice extra.

The game would be a lot more fun if people tried relying on each other instead of alts, and if no one would abuse alts to cement their own position of power - Which is making the game more stale and boring in the first place.


So according to you, every time I want to move my capital ship, I should get 3-4 people today to:
1. Fly to the system where the jump is to be made in a cyno ship, assuming you don't get popped on the way
2. Light a cyno for me and be stuck in space for 10 minutes
3. Wait for me to do whatever it is I am doing, so they can light a return cyno
4. Fly back to the home system or whatever it is they were doing

The fact that capitals can't use the gates today makes it a necessity to have an alt account with at least 2-3 cynos. If you're flying titan you're looking at even more alts, and if you're parking it, you're looking at a sitter alt.

While it would be great if we all lived in this happy-go-lucky willing-to-help pink-ponies universe of yours where we can dependably rely on other people, the reality is much harsher and different. A capital pilot without their own cyno alts is for all intents and purposes STUCK where they are right now.

Decrease in jump range forces us to get additional alts in order to be able to reach distances we previously could with 3-4 alts. Furthermore, fatigue will force those serious about their logistics to train/buy additional jump capable character so they can swap mid way and not take too much fatigue penalty. Some will even go for 3+ of those. All those things mean more subscriptions, more PLEX sales, assuming that people actually go for it.

Alts are a necessity as a capital pilot. They have nothing to do with your "skill". You can have 200M SP and be the uberest pilot in EVE, but you will still need your cyno alts to move your uber space iron coffin anywhere. And with these new changes, don't think capital pilots will suddenly start using gates. Have you ever flown a capital ship and seen it's align speed?
twit brent
Never Not AFK
#6664 - 2014-10-04 18:28:28 UTC
So if i take a jump bridge inside my own SOV while ratting or i move a jump freighter around a bit I wont be able to join any capital ops because i will have fatigue and wont be able to keep up?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6665 - 2014-10-04 18:29:36 UTC
what does anyone think about allowing JF to jump to covert cyno?
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6666 - 2014-10-04 18:35:07 UTC
twit brent wrote:
So if i take a jump bridge inside my own SOV while ratting or i move a jump freighter around a bit I wont be able to join any capital ops because i will have fatigue and wont be able to keep up?


Yes.

Which actually does give a very valid reason to just move the timer to the ships instead. Because whilst I fully support these upcoming changes, I am at the same time very much against a player ending up being screwed if he/she/it/whatever have been busy hauling and done a few jumps and all of a sudden a fight comes up.

Whilst this system does indeed promote old-school convoys, it is still potentially too unforgiving in case of jump freighters being used.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6667 - 2014-10-04 18:35:22 UTC
twit brent wrote:
So if i take a jump bridge inside my own SOV while ratting or i move a jump freighter around a bit I wont be able to join any capital ops because i will have fatigue and wont be able to keep up?

Bribe your FC to take all the gates

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
SanDooD
Perkone
Caldari State
#6668 - 2014-10-04 18:35:52 UTC
twit brent wrote:
So if i take a jump bridge inside my own SOV while ratting or i move a jump freighter around a bit I wont be able to join any capital ops because i will have fatigue and wont be able to keep up?


Exactly.

Because in EVE we don't evolve, we devolve. We were somehow able to handle the jumps before, but over a period of years we devolved and are now susceptible to effects of the jump drive. Furthermore, our technology become more crap because now our jump drive can't reach as far.

We sure live in interesting times.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6669 - 2014-10-04 18:37:34 UTC
twit brent wrote:
So if i take a jump bridge inside my own SOV while ratting or i move a jump freighter around a bit I wont be able to join any capital ops because i will have fatigue and wont be able to keep up?
Yes, CCP's goal appears to be to remove as much content as possible from this game.
uziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#6670 - 2014-10-04 18:38:27 UTC
SanDooD wrote:
twit brent wrote:
So if i take a jump bridge inside my own SOV while ratting or i move a jump freighter around a bit I wont be able to join any capital ops because i will have fatigue and wont be able to keep up?


Exactly.

Because in EVE we don't evolve, we devolve. We were somehow able to handle the jumps before, but over a period of years we devolved and are now susceptible to effects of the jump drive. Furthermore, our technology become more crap because now our jump drive can't reach as far.

We sure live in interesting times.


It's like living in BattleTech or Warhammer 40k. We had nice things, then for some reason we lost them.

From the formless void's gaping maw, there springs an entity.  Not an entity such as any you can conceive of, nor I; an entity more primordial than the elements themselves. In its wake there will follow a storm, as the appetite of nothing expands over the world. The Prophecy is true. Grayscale has come.
Monasucks
BLACK SQUADRON.
Get Off My Lawn
#6671 - 2014-10-04 18:39:38 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
twit brent wrote:
So if i take a jump bridge inside my own SOV while ratting or i move a jump freighter around a bit I wont be able to join any capital ops because i will have fatigue and wont be able to keep up?
Yes, CCP's goal appears to be to remove as much content as possible from this game.

sadly yes - ccp really should rethink

Why do they want to destroy the game?

Monasucks Tumblr

Twitter

"A good worker is a live worker. Free to live - and work! A bad worker is a dead worker; and vice versa. Don't be a bad worker; bad workers are slaves, and dead."
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6672 - 2014-10-04 18:40:08 UTC
Noferatu wrote:
R&K's pipe-bombing will become the new Meta...

Lush.


It is subject to these changes too....5 LY limit and jump fatigue. So, it will probably go the way of hot dropping. Roll
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6673 - 2014-10-04 18:43:34 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Rowells wrote:
I've done logistics for my own corp for a short period and I do it for my own indy operations. Albeit not in quantities as large as that. I know not all things can be sourced locally, and if you compare what can be local and all possibilities to be made from non-wormhole its small. But thats a change to consider. It now comes down to other options instead of just shipping everything from jita. There will be shortages of certain items and surplus of others (especially things others are having a hard time acquiring). if anything this will encourage trade and make regional materials more profitable to ship out. Under the current status this isnt a perfect system. However there are other changes planned ahead and this isnt the last of them. when Pheobe hits many people will have massive stockpiles of things they need to cushion te loss of logistics power. After they dry up theyll either switch production, much like people did in crius, or pay extra for imported materials. This will affect everyone, even large alliances, since the logistics power and demand for goods tends to scale semi-linearly with growth. I'm not saying everything is going to be the same or just as easy afterwards. It will require many changes in operations and goals.


The answer is that moving that kind of stuff will take an extra 3.5 hours or so. So it is not likely that people currently doing logistics will want to keep doing it. Making the game less fun is not a good idea.

And Jita is where the different regions basically come together and trade....it is actually a very good thing.



Sorry but this is NOT a good thing. THis game is about conflict , dispute. Jita is one of the most neutralizing factors in this game. IT reduces gameplay, it removes region identity, reduce need for group work and corps.

JIta is not nice for the game. What is good for the game is not always what is IMMEDIATELY good for the player.

And jita can only exist because transport is too easy.


Oh and let me add that Jita has more continuous conflict that any system in game. No, I'm talking about the guys sitting outside the station shooting industrials, but market PvP is a continuous on-going thing in Jita.

In short, you are advocating reducing conflict.

Good job. Next time think! Roll
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6674 - 2014-10-04 18:44:34 UTC
twit brent wrote:
So if i take a jump bridge inside my own SOV while ratting or i move a jump freighter around a bit I wont be able to join any capital ops because i will have fatigue and wont be able to keep up?

two options:
Fly a ceptor and avoid jb route

Dont rat so far from your HQ that you are required to take jb to make it to the op on time. Remember, things are moving slower now so sayin "I have to be there naow" isnt as pertinent anymore. and remember if you move a jf the the fatigue is much smaller. 15 minutes for a max LY jump.

Yes you no longer have easy options to be close to home without actually being close. thats ok. there are ways to make it less painful.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6675 - 2014-10-04 18:45:23 UTC
I'm frankly shocked that I agree with so many CFC pilots on the logistics nerf being very, very bad. This patch is truly uniting nullsec in a way never before seen. Hopefully if this patch hits unedited we can all band together, leave a skeleton crew to camp the entry gates, and grind all of losec and hisec into the dirt.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6676 - 2014-10-04 18:46:47 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
twit brent wrote:
So if i take a jump bridge inside my own SOV while ratting or i move a jump freighter around a bit I wont be able to join any capital ops because i will have fatigue and wont be able to keep up?
Yes, CCP's goal appears to be to remove as much content as possible from this game.

It's rather tiring huh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6677 - 2014-10-04 18:47:44 UTC
uziel99 wrote:
SanDooD wrote:
Because in EVE we don't evolve, we devolve. We were somehow able to handle the jumps before, but over a period of years we devolved and are now susceptible to effects of the jump drive. Furthermore, our technology become more crap because now our jump drive can't reach as far.

We sure live in interesting times.

It's like living in BattleTech or Warhammer 40k. We had nice things, then for some reason we lost them.

The dark age of fatigue.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
JimmieTwoTimes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6678 - 2014-10-04 18:50:48 UTC
How come I only see CCP eventually providing a half way decent solution to an issue after they have just screwed up royally. For a change I would like to see CCP provide creative/innovative ideas before screwing things up. These new jump policies are just more fail content to add to a very long list.

Stop trying to fix things that arent broken and fix all the issues that have been broken for years. Instead of wasting millions on a vampire game you cant follow through on while pushing out garbage updates to your core player base in Eve listen to what we want. Could have spent those millions on fixing the POS mechanics at the very least.

Whoever says null sec is stagnant is not playing in null sec or they are in an invactive alliance. I just finished a 2+ month deployment (25+ ops per day happening) and 2 weeks later received an email for another deployment. My Jabber pings haven't stopped at all this year regarding war time ops. Also, this game (as with people in RL) goes through periods of calm and war which should not be mistaken for stagnation.

CCP do us all a favor and hire an outside firm to start doing your thinking for you. Good decisions on behalf of your player base aren't your strong suit.
Galmalmin
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#6679 - 2014-10-04 18:51:42 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Galmalmin wrote:
No, the stuff is just going to rot in station, ya can't have it.
Can I reprocess your stuff?


Lol

Wow, thank you. I Fing laughed when I read that. My morning was going very poorly because of RL(tm) issues and that little comment made me snort.

Thank you for making my whole day... I appreciate it, even if you were being snarky (and I do not know if you were), my days is better for it.

Galmalmin

PS; as a side note, while I am sure that those that have unsubed because of this issue, I have only seen a few that are of the "Rage Quit" category. I have quit to add emphasis to my sincerity regarding the thought process CCP staff have been using of late that effects the way I play. The true measure a business can use to determine if they are inline with their customers is how many leave after they do X or say they are going to do X.

Galmalmin
NinjaTurtle
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6680 - 2014-10-04 18:55:00 UTC
The CCP Echo Chamber strikes again