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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#6221 - 2014-10-04 00:22:52 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Jump range reference map before and after

The north seems rather isolated.... I would advocate for 2-3 more regions to increase access points.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#6222 - 2014-10-04 00:29:18 UTC
Alyssia Nakrar wrote:
I wonder what effect this will have on indi after all just a few months ago you put out a patch to cause indi to spread out but lmitting JF's to 5 ly seams to me like it would pull it back into the hubs

also i know some corps use carriers to transport fit ships for new members to were the corp is located this would now become prohibtivly time consuming

and with carriers using gates i can see some corps dooing 20 carrier low sec romes has this even ben thought of

i would sugest leaving JF ranges the same and posably add a JF varient that could transport fit ships but has to dock to load/unload them



This has been brought up several times.

Options are

1. Tier two jf with sma
2. Unrestricting the rorquals sma
3. Allow removal of rigs without destruction.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Shuckstar
Blue Dreams Plus
#6223 - 2014-10-04 00:34:36 UTC
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

Tell that to your staff for example my new signature Roll

CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6224 - 2014-10-04 00:39:33 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Jessica Duranin wrote:
M T Steph wrote:
Whats next CCP? Capital ships in hi sec?

Why not?


Because imagine marmites or other high sec mercs with nuetral triage plus refits if they know their shiny is going to die

Neutral triage at jita undock doesn't sound like a very clever idea tbh. Everyone would undock dreads to shoot the suspect carrier that now can't dock for five minutes.


Your assuming the common jita rabble have dreadnoughts or would want to undock them and risk it being a trap, since supers could be high sec too. Generally this is an all around bad idea so they should stay in low/null/j-space

Supers should be banned from losec, too Bear
Telistra
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6225 - 2014-10-04 00:52:44 UTC
CCP, I think you guys are over thinking the problem. Please give this "entire" idea more thought...
Frag Solo
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#6226 - 2014-10-04 00:54:38 UTC
What option we have for force ccp to cancel that **** ?
un subcribe ?
mass petition ?
take a dev in hostage at ccp event ?

@Frag_Solo

EVE Paris , EVE Vegas , EVE Fanfest .... I was there

Undefeated champion of Valkyrie

Complaints Department AT Team Captain and director
Gunner GzR
Air
The Initiative.
#6227 - 2014-10-04 00:58:26 UTC
We in the wh community Feel your pain...
What?....
oh wait
i Guess we don't since all null could do is troll us in wh when they ran a bulldozer through wh space.

NOW U KNOW HOW WE FELT TwistedAttention

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
Froozen Ice
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6228 - 2014-10-04 01:02:04 UTC
Frag Solo wrote:
What option we have for force ccp to cancel that **** ?
un subcribe ?
mass petition ?
take a dev in hostage at ccp event ?

Personally I chose the un subscribe solution for 2 of my accounts. They are the accounts doing JF and Cynos. They no longer will be needed with JF range of 5ly.

Simple solution to a simple problem.
Lx33
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#6229 - 2014-10-04 01:04:37 UTC
Im all for changes to help the SOV issue, but CCP you need to reconsider this. Huge amounts of players are unsubbing because these changes are too drastic, nerf batting things isnt always the best option.

This change will impact small groups harshly too, not just big alliances. It will make it harder for them to get into null let alone grow and expand with gaining their own territory.

CCP have you considered possibly making systems scattered throughout null that only subcaps can enter? Think of it like a FPS game, where some maps allow tanks and aircraft into the fray, and where others only foot soldiers can enter. This is just an example, but it would be a good point to consider. Opening up systems so that only subcaps can enter immediately removes the fear of capitals dropping and destroying anything that the smaller group has gained. These systems would make it easier for small alliances to move into null and gain a foothold, also increasing their chance of branching out.

These systems would provide a good alternative to feeling like you are always going to get dropped, and rather than reduce pvp opportunities like your current idea will do, it will essentially draw more smaller pvp groups out to them. Having the stations in these systems as NPC stations would also entice more players to base out of these systems, as there would be no fear of completely losing a base of operations.

Obviously any structures in the system would need to be scaled back in terms of HP so that it isnt an immense grind to take them, you would have to make it relative to subcaps.

You could even tie it into the lore to suggest that gravity anomalies have occurred in these systems, limiting the mass of the ships capable of being present in the system.

This is just all a thought so please dont shoot me down, i just think that nerf batting isnt always the best method when approaching changes.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#6230 - 2014-10-04 01:04:49 UTC
Frag Solo wrote:
What option we have for force ccp to cancel that **** ?
un subcribe ?
mass petition ?
take a dev in hostage at ccp event ?


4. Suck it up and wait for the finalized changes.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#6231 - 2014-10-04 01:12:07 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
hmmm....interesting times ahead of us it seems. I for one did not like the module tiercide....but i didnt come here to post about that.

I read maybe 400 posts, basically saw 3 camps.....the fors, the againsts, and the neutrals(fence straddlers). A lot of nullsecr's raging in here.
Well lets see.....maybe if you had set up your local areas for marketing and industry you would not be raging so hard. Curently most nullsecrs (not all) look down on anybody that doesnt pvp all the time.....and more so those that dont pvp at all. Yet you rat yourself to make Isk? You dont protect your renters for the most part....instead you slave them out, tax them to death, make them wait on you all the time, or expect them to jump the second you snap your fingers. Ok thats fine and dandy....your pvpr's, you buy all you stuff....you dont build it unless its a cap or supercap. And where to you buy your stuff?

You buy it from highsec, then you send your alts or force miners to go there also.....then you assist crusades or lead them yourselves against highsec miners, ratters, and Indy alike. Why? because you have no content in null.
You need kills, you only pvp here because of the meta of being big dog whether your a failure or not at COD or BF4. Except you forgot that EvE isnt a twitch game....it is not an instant gratification game. It is one of strategy and tactics.

Yet you have nothing in place for hardcore local defense, you dont defend or utilize your space (meaning betls, anoms, etc not TCU's and SBU's) let alone have any real concrete programs in place for having a core indy group....the farmers to feed your military and the permanent defense patrols for them to feel safe. So they either move or are told to go to highsec and collect stuff and ship home to null.

Renters.....they utilize space for you...but do it to make ISK or fuel their own ambitions of game play....but they utilize the space and are forced to wait hand and foot for you to get around doing upgrades and stuff for them. What is the rent for? To pay your Sov BIll? screw that....pay it yourself by utilizing more than you do and if you need more space for that to happen then take it or die trying. In my personal experience on another toon in another day....a renter is left to fend for themselves 90% of the time...and if they toe the political party line 100% then maybe they wont be subject to being picked on by members of their overlords.
Logistics..........you would not be crying so much if your indy and miners were based at home rather than Highsec. Stagnation is really your fault. Blue donut is your fault. and the line members....75% of you are nothing more than two-bit thugs that have forgot why you came to EvE in the first place.....thats why your bored, thats why you rail on changes like this....albiet i agree its maybe a wee bit harsher than it needs to be.
I heard a rumor last year....do not know if its true or not I dont load up dotlan to find out....but i heard that Mittani at one time ordered their homeworld areas to be maxed out for indy.
Players need/want that chance to own a piece of the pie....and they can not do it. If this change downsizes the space owned by the Null Lords....then so be it maybe the smaller guys can start to finally take the fight to own that slice. For those that have unsubbed or threatening to.......good EvE dont need you...your a drain on the community anyway with your acidic toxic way of dealing with others just because you can....just because your top of the foodchain. Honestly....it should be the pvpr' that works for the indy guys not the other way around. And i say that last bit because in any other strategy game, RTS or not....its the resource collector, the buildings, etc that are the most important resource....to fuel the military offensive and defensive capability to win.
So nullbears qq about moving stuff around.....a carrier can do it but thats not its purpose its a combat ship....a carrier with sub-caps maybe should be an escort force for a convoy of JF or regular freighters. quit crying about moving stuff from highsec to null....you have enough out there if you moved your assets out there to be 100% self-sufficient. Highsec on the other hand has to rely on wormhole diving or resources from Nullsec for building stuff on the other hand. Have you thought about that strategy? IF you controlled the t2 market to the extreme as in not bringing moon goo or completed ships to highsec....you would totally dominate in that economically and militarily.....because Highsec players would be forced to trade on your terms or really really have a reason to move to null themselves. Of course that would require you leave Highsec with your mains and alts and never look back......might be too much to ask for or for the ragers (logistic nullbears) to think about.

Quoting the truth!
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#6232 - 2014-10-04 01:19:56 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
hmmm....interesting times ahead of us it seems. I for one did not like the module tiercide....but i didnt come here to post about that.

I read maybe 400 posts, basically saw 3 camps.....the fors, the againsts, and the neutrals(fence straddlers). A lot of nullsecr's raging in here.
Well lets see.....maybe if you had set up your local areas for marketing and industry you would not be raging so hard. Curently most nullsecrs (not all) look down on anybody that doesnt pvp all the time.....and more so those that dont pvp at all. Yet you rat yourself to make Isk? You dont protect your renters for the most part....instead you slave them out, tax them to death, make them wait on you all the time, or expect them to jump the second you snap your fingers. Ok thats fine and dandy....your pvpr's, you buy all you stuff....you dont build it unless its a cap or supercap. And where to you buy your stuff?

You buy it from highsec, then you send your alts or force miners to go there also.....then you assist crusades or lead them yourselves against highsec miners, ratters, and Indy alike. Why? because you have no content in null.
You need kills, you only pvp here because of the meta of being big dog whether your a failure or not at COD or BF4. Except you forgot that EvE isnt a twitch game....it is not an instant gratification game. It is one of strategy and tactics.

Yet you have nothing in place for hardcore local defense, you dont defend or utilize your space (meaning betls, anoms, etc not TCU's and SBU's) let alone have any real concrete programs in place for having a core indy group....the farmers to feed your military and the permanent defense patrols for them to feel safe. So they either move or are told to go to highsec and collect stuff and ship home to null.

Renters.....they utilize space for you...but do it to make ISK or fuel their own ambitions of game play....but they utilize the space and are forced to wait hand and foot for you to get around doing upgrades and stuff for them. What is the rent for? To pay your Sov BIll? screw that....pay it yourself by utilizing more than you do and if you need more space for that to happen then take it or die trying. In my personal experience on another toon in another day....a renter is left to fend for themselves 90% of the time...and if they toe the political party line 100% then maybe they wont be subject to being picked on by members of their overlords.
Logistics..........you would not be crying so much if your indy and miners were based at home rather than Highsec. Stagnation is really your fault. Blue donut is your fault. and the line members....75% of you are nothing more than two-bit thugs that have forgot why you came to EvE in the first place.....thats why your bored, thats why you rail on changes like this....albiet i agree its maybe a wee bit harsher than it needs to be.
I heard a rumor last year....do not know if its true or not I dont load up dotlan to find out....but i heard that Mittani at one time ordered their homeworld areas to be maxed out for indy.
Players need/want that chance to own a piece of the pie....and they can not do it. If this change downsizes the space owned by the Null Lords....then so be it maybe the smaller guys can start to finally take the fight to own that slice. For those that have unsubbed or threatening to.......good EvE dont need you...your a drain on the community anyway with your acidic toxic way of dealing with others just because you can....just because your top of the foodchain. Honestly....it should be the pvpr' that works for the indy guys not the other way around. And i say that last bit because in any other strategy game, RTS or not....its the resource collector, the buildings, etc that are the most important resource....to fuel the military offensive and defensive capability to win.
So nullbears qq about moving stuff around.....a carrier can do it but thats not its purpose its a combat ship....a carrier with sub-caps maybe should be an escort force for a convoy of JF or regular freighters. quit crying about moving stuff from highsec to null....you have enough out there if you moved your assets out there to be 100% self-sufficient. Highsec on the other hand has to rely on wormhole diving or resources from Nullsec for building stuff on the other hand. Have you thought about that strategy? IF you controlled the t2 market to the extreme as in not bringing moon goo or completed ships to highsec....you would totally dominate in that economically and militarily.....because Highsec players would be forced to trade on your terms or really really have a reason to move to null themselves. Of course that would require you leave Highsec with your mains and alts and never look back......might be too much to ask for or for the ragers (logistic nullbears) to think about.


Interesting post. Just so all of you renters know, you don't have to be disgruntled renters to your overbearing overlords. You could move into a wormhole and really carve out your own space. There are lots of vacancies to be filled.

:)
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#6233 - 2014-10-04 01:20:48 UTC
Shuckstar wrote:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

Tell that to your staff for example my new signature Roll




What CCP greyscale said in you Sig is true. There arent many new ideas coming up anymore and the thread is going slow now.


So time to relax everyone

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6234 - 2014-10-04 01:29:28 UTC
I've had 5 years of unbroken faith in you CCP. I knew this day would come, I knew it.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Heofz
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6235 - 2014-10-04 01:33:35 UTC
CCP, kudos for making such a ballsy move, though its abundantly clear you are playing this one by ear. That being said, I hope Hilmar is aware he's going to lose ~30% of his bottom line revenue over the next 12 months thanks to your rash commitment to such a monumental change without thinking about the knock on consequences first.

No doubt the change will certainly make things interesting, but I'm getting the feeling you and the CSM simply don't fully appreciate the phenomenal impact this will have on literally every aspect of the game, and how all these affected factors are so heavily intertwined. This is pretty much turning the game upside down and will affect everybody, directly and indirectly.

Whilst I admire the aforementioned ballsyness, I also think its extremely reckless. One minute we're talking about small teensy frequent changes, then suddenly a giant sledgehammer comes out of nowhere, catching everybody off guard. Why so drastic and why so sudden?

The only way I can protest is with my wallet, so you can consider -7 paid sub cancellations here. One of the main reasons I liked Eve over other MMOs was because most MMOs forced players to spend 90% of the time "travelling" ingame, and who the hell wants to do that? Maybe some people enjoy vegging out while being logged in, but I'm not one of them.

Jump Drives are a brilliant feature and the idea of Capital Ships doing this attracts a lot of interest on principle. The capital pilot playerbase who have been subscribed to you for years need love too.

-£630/year just to play "endless jumpgates online"?... yeah no thanks. After 5 years, it's been fun but that's it for me Cool
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#6236 - 2014-10-04 01:35:31 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
hmmm....interesting times ahead of us it seems. I for one did not like the module tiercide....but i didnt come here to post about that.

I read maybe 400 posts, basically saw 3 camps.....the fors, the againsts, and the neutrals(fence straddlers). A lot of nullsecr's raging in here.
Well lets see.....maybe if you had set up your local areas for marketing and industry you would not be raging so hard. Curently most nullsecrs (not all) look down on anybody that doesnt pvp all the time.....and more so those that dont pvp at all. Yet you rat yourself to make Isk? You dont protect your renters for the most part....instead you slave them out, tax them to death, make them wait on you all the time, or expect them to jump the second you snap your fingers. Ok thats fine and dandy....your pvpr's, you buy all you stuff....you dont build it unless its a cap or supercap. And where to you buy your stuff?

You buy it from highsec, then you send your alts or force miners to go there also.....then you assist crusades or lead them yourselves against highsec miners, ratters, and Indy alike. Why? because you have no content in null.
You need kills, you only pvp here because of the meta of being big dog whether your a failure or not at COD or BF4. Except you forgot that EvE isnt a twitch game....it is not an instant gratification game. It is one of strategy and tactics.

Yet you have nothing in place for hardcore local defense, you dont defend or utilize your space (meaning betls, anoms, etc not TCU's and SBU's) let alone have any real concrete programs in place for having a core indy group....the farmers to feed your military and the permanent defense patrols for them to feel safe. So they either move or are told to go to highsec and collect stuff and ship home to null.

Renters.....they utilize space for you...but do it to make ISK or fuel their own ambitions of game play....but they utilize the space and are forced to wait hand and foot for you to get around doing upgrades and stuff for them. What is the rent for? To pay your Sov BIll? screw that....pay it yourself by utilizing more than you do and if you need more space for that to happen then take it or die trying. In my personal experience on another toon in another day....a renter is left to fend for themselves 90% of the time...and if they toe the political party line 100% then maybe they wont be subject to being picked on by members of their overlords.
Logistics..........you would not be crying so much if your indy and miners were based at home rather than Highsec. Stagnation is really your fault. Blue donut is your fault. and the line members....75% of you are nothing more than two-bit thugs that have forgot why you came to EvE in the first place.....thats why your bored, thats why you rail on changes like this....albiet i agree its maybe a wee bit harsher than it needs to be.
I heard a rumor last year....do not know if its true or not I dont load up dotlan to find out....but i heard that Mittani at one time ordered their homeworld areas to be maxed out for indy.
Players need/want that chance to own a piece of the pie....and they can not do it. If this change downsizes the space owned by the Null Lords....then so be it maybe the smaller guys can start to finally take the fight to own that slice. For those that have unsubbed or threatening to.......good EvE dont need you...your a drain on the community anyway with your acidic toxic way of dealing with others just because you can....just because your top of the foodchain. Honestly....it should be the pvpr' that works for the indy guys not the other way around. And i say that last bit because in any other strategy game, RTS or not....its the resource collector, the buildings, etc that are the most important resource....to fuel the military offensive and defensive capability to win.
So nullbears qq about moving stuff around.....a carrier can do it but thats not its purpose its a combat ship....a carrier with sub-caps maybe should be an escort force for a convoy of JF or regular freighters. quit crying about moving stuff from highsec to null....you have enough out there if you moved your assets out there to be 100% self-sufficient. Highsec on the other hand has to rely on wormhole diving or resources from Nullsec for building stuff on the other hand. Have you thought about that strategy? IF you controlled the t2 market to the extreme as in not bringing moon goo or completed ships to highsec....you would totally dominate in that economically and militarily.....because Highsec players would be forced to trade on your terms or really really have a reason to move to null themselves. Of course that would require you leave Highsec with your mains and alts and never look back......might be too much to ask for or for the ragers (logistic nullbears) to think about.

man renting from n3 and pl must be rough if this is how it is
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#6237 - 2014-10-04 01:39:20 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I've had 5 years of unbroken faith in you CCP. I knew this day would come, I knew it.


Huh? 2011 was 3 years ago

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
ViRUS Pottage
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6238 - 2014-10-04 01:40:10 UTC
Heofz wrote:
CCP, kudos for making such a ballsy move, though its abundantly clear you are playing this one by ear. That being said, I hope Hilmar is aware he's going to lose ~30% of his bottom line revenue over the next 12 months thanks to your rash commitment to such a monumental change without thinking about the knock on consequences first.

No doubt the change will certainly make things interesting, but I'm getting the feeling you and the CSM simply don't fully appreciate the phenomenal impact this will have on literally every aspect of the game, and how all these affected factors are so heavily intertwined. This is pretty much turning the game upside down and will affect everybody, directly and indirectly.

Whilst I admire the aforementioned ballsyness, I also think its extremely reckless. One minute we're talking about small teensy frequent changes, then suddenly a giant sledgehammer comes out of nowhere, catching everybody off guard. Why so drastic and why so sudden?

The only way I can protest is with my wallet, so you can consider -7 paid sub cancellations here. One of the main reasons I liked Eve over other MMOs was because most MMOs forced players to spend 90% of the time "travelling" ingame, and who the hell wants to do that? Maybe some people enjoy vegging out while being logged in, but I'm not one of them.

Jump Drives are a brilliant feature and the idea of Capital Ships doing this attracts a lot of interest on principle. The capital pilot playerbase who have been subscribed to you for years need love too.

-£630/year just to play "endless jumpgates online"?... yeah no thanks. After 5 years, it's been fun but that's it for me Cool



well said.
Faith Marr
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6239 - 2014-10-04 01:42:45 UTC
CCP please reduce the amount of fatigue for blops gangs (anything that jumps to covert cyno except for T3s). A gang can only hotdrop twice per night with the current changes. Otherwise the changes are good.

Don't make any exceptions for jump bridges or cave into more "complicated" solutions, they are being suggested so it can be abused.
Teclador
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6240 - 2014-10-04 01:49:50 UTC
Red Bluesteel wrote:
CCP if you really do it with these changes, then Eve will be a 100% Dead Game in 6-8 Weeks Attention

The following changes are acceptable for me:

  • Keep all Jump Ranges as they are
  • acceptable Jump fatigue = 2min (Standard) + 30sec per 0.5 Ly
  • after running out of this Cool down, Fatigue must be reseted. No Multiplications with old Fatigues.


e.g. 1:
If you have to travel 3 Max Jumps with an 5/5 skilled Archon (14.624 Ly), your total Fatigue will be 3*(2min+15min) = 51min.

e.g. 2:
If you have to travel 2 Jumps, 1st 10,4 Ly and 2nd 5,8 Ly, your total Fatigue will be: 2min+10,5min and 2min+6min = 20,5min.


I think that should be fair enough to be not an grand total Nurf and to travel even more will not be pain in the ass of a lifetime job.

+1 Best Idea so far