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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
M T Steph
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6201 - 2014-10-03 23:35:37 UTC
Whats next CCP? Capital ships in hi sec?
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#6202 - 2014-10-03 23:38:04 UTC
M T Steph wrote:
Whats next CCP? Capital ships in hi sec?

Why not?
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#6203 - 2014-10-03 23:39:48 UTC
I for one am interested in how these changes play out, that I might start actually paying attention to you k-space people. Could be some fun stories that come out of this.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6204 - 2014-10-03 23:40:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Nazri al Mahdi
Veskrashen wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Tell us more about this.. lawn of yours please. Big smile

It's called lowsec. That terrible place where nullbears fear to tread.

Losec is less scary than null tbh. Hisec is what scares us, on two counts: 1) Marmite, and 2) we're afraid a bath won't get the stink off when we descend back into the darkness of 0.0.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6205 - 2014-10-03 23:43:07 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
M T Steph wrote:
Whats next CCP? Capital ships in hi sec?

Why not?


Because imagine marmites or other high sec mercs with nuetral triage plus refits if they know their shiny is going to die

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6206 - 2014-10-03 23:43:53 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Tell us more about this.. lawn of yours please. Big smile

It's called lowsec. That terrible place where nullbears fear to tread.

Losec is less scary than null tbh. Hisec is what scares us, on two counts: 1) Marmite, and 2) we're afraid a bath won't get the stink off when we descend back into the darkness of 0.0.


yep that about sums up my issues with highsec too

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

S13UTH
Eden Risk Management
Fedaykin.
#6207 - 2014-10-03 23:44:28 UTC
The nerf to JFers makes design sense; without the nerf players will simply circumvent these careful plans by using JFers to instantly get to capital caches.

This Dev Blog makes me want to resub my accounts, so I can unsub with a new reason.
Gwailar
Doomheim
#6208 - 2014-10-03 23:44:36 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
hmmm....interesting times ahead of us it seems. I for one did not like the module tiercide....but i didnt come here to post about that.

I read maybe 400 posts, basically saw 3 camps.....the fors, the againsts, and the neutrals(fence straddlers). A lot of nullsecr's raging in here.
Well lets see.....maybe if you had set up your local areas for marketing and industry you would not be raging so hard. Curently most nullsecrs (not all) look down on anybody that doesnt pvp all the time.....and more so those that dont pvp at all. Yet you rat yourself to make Isk? You dont protect your renters for the most part....instead you slave them out, tax them to death, make them wait on you all the time, or expect them to jump the second you snap your fingers. Ok thats fine and dandy....your pvpr's, you buy all you stuff....you dont build it unless its a cap or supercap. And where to you buy your stuff?

You buy it from highsec, then you send your alts or force miners to go there also.....then you assist crusades or lead them yourselves against highsec miners, ratters, and Indy alike. Why? because you have no content in null.
You need kills, you only pvp here because of the meta of being big dog whether your a failure or not at COD or BF4. Except you forgot that EvE isnt a twitch game....it is not an instant gratification game. It is one of strategy and tactics.

Yet you have nothing in place for hardcore local defense, you dont defend or utilize your space (meaning betls, anoms, etc not TCU's and SBU's) let alone have any real concrete programs in place for having a core indy group....the farmers to feed your military and the permanent defense patrols for them to feel safe. So they either move or are told to go to highsec and collect stuff and ship home to null.

Renters.....they utilize space for you...but do it to make ISK or fuel their own ambitions of game play....but they utilize the space and are forced to wait hand and foot for you to get around doing upgrades and stuff for them. What is the rent for? To pay your Sov BIll? screw that....pay it yourself by utilizing more than you do and if you need more space for that to happen then take it or die trying. In my personal experience on another toon in another day....a renter is left to fend for themselves 90% of the time...and if they toe the political party line 100% then maybe they wont be subject to being picked on by members of their overlords.
Logistics..........you would not be crying so much if your indy and miners were based at home rather than Highsec. Stagnation is really your fault. Blue donut is your fault. and the line members....75% of you are nothing more than two-bit thugs that have forgot why you came to EvE in the first place.....thats why your bored, thats why you rail on changes like this....albiet i agree its maybe a wee bit harsher than it needs to be.
I heard a rumor last year....do not know if its true or not I dont load up dotlan to find out....but i heard that Mittani at one time ordered their homeworld areas to be maxed out for indy.
Players need/want that chance to own a piece of the pie....and they can not do it. If this change downsizes the space owned by the Null Lords....then so be it maybe the smaller guys can start to finally take the fight to own that slice. For those that have unsubbed or threatening to.......good EvE dont need you...your a drain on the community anyway with your acidic toxic way of dealing with others just because you can....just because your top of the foodchain. Honestly....it should be the pvpr' that works for the indy guys not the other way around. And i say that last bit because in any other strategy game, RTS or not....its the resource collector, the buildings, etc that are the most important resource....to fuel the military offensive and defensive capability to win.
So nullbears qq about moving stuff around.....a carrier can do it but thats not its purpose its a combat ship....a carrier with sub-caps maybe should be an escort force for a convoy of JF or regular freighters. quit crying about moving stuff from highsec to null....you have enough out there if you moved your assets out there to be 100% self-sufficient. Highsec on the other hand has to rely on wormhole diving or resources from Nullsec for building stuff on the other hand. Have you thought about that strategy? IF you controlled the t2 market to the extreme as in not bringing moon goo or completed ships to highsec....you would totally dominate in that economically and militarily.....because Highsec players would be forced to trade on your terms or really really have a reason to move to null themselves. Of course that would require you leave Highsec with your mains and alts and never look back......might be too much to ask for or for the ragers (logistic nullbears) to think about.


You beautiful, man, you.

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6209 - 2014-10-03 23:44:40 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
I'm very aware of exotic hardware. Lol

(new hardware emplaced/total code rewrite) And you would find that it all hits the wall at some new N+1 point. 10K pilots? 20K pilots? The nobbing will always overwhelm the hardware/software, unless it can handle more subscribers than you actually have subscribed. The mechanics of the game have to push very hard against, or forbid, nobbing before TiDi can be retired.
Of course, there will always be a cap on what an given hardware can support. Tidi is not a solution though, it's a temporary fix. It effectively allows a server to run as fast as 10 in relation to the speed of the actual game. The only realistic solution to the problem is a combined effort of improving the server technology (such as though biab and service separation) and meta game changes which discourage massing. From the way CCP act though, tidi is a burden which is here to stay.

If they wanted to get really hardcore they could put a few nodes on FPGA's, though they would have to dump their stupid 6-week dev cycle.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6210 - 2014-10-03 23:47:16 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Viceversa wrote:
What is the reason of nerfing JF?

Has anyone been afraid of JF drops?

I believe they are under the impression that it will stimulate local economies and local production.

Either that or they just want to triple the number of cyno alts that you need.



No. They want the freighters to be moved with SCOUTs and escort and not be super safe. They want to add content, conflict. Things to hunt Make trade routes have systems, not only a start and end point magically linked. They want piracy back.

Well I know that pirates want to get juicy freighter KMs. I'm not sure I understand why but I know it's a thing. However just because PvP pilots want that does not mean it will be good for the game to give it to them.

PvP pilots out on a roam are in ships the fully expect to loose. Those ships are insured and in most cases the pilot considers the ship lost as soon as he undocks and if he makes it back home still in the ship he left in it's just a bonus. The pilot moving goods however usually has very expensive cargo that in most cases he or his corp / alliance went out of pocket for. Loosing that ship and it's cargo is usually not only not planed but typically a sizable set back. Now you can say adapt or die and you'll be right in order to succeed in this game you will need to adapt to the new mechanics. However high risk and heavy losses like this will likely lead to lower volume and higher prices. I can only see this leading to less PvP. I mean you need ships to loose after all. Well I guess people could fight in noob ships.

In real world warfare you will see supply lines and factories attacked as primary targets. This is because it is the most effective way to beat your enemy. The problem is that in real world war the object is to to win and end the fighting. In this game the goal is to keep the fighting going. I just think that any game mechanic that makes moving freight more difficult will also slow down the amount of PvP.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6211 - 2014-10-03 23:50:03 UTC
S13UTH wrote:
The nerf to JFers makes design sense; without the nerf players will simply circumvent these careful plans by using JFers to instantly get to capital caches.

This Dev Blog makes me want to resub my accounts, so I can unsub with a new reason.

Then give JF the same 7.5 lightyear range that BLOPS have, since BLOPS can be used for the same exact purpose and can even use regular cynos.
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#6212 - 2014-10-03 23:54:03 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Toriessian wrote:

- Make any jump/bridge to a covert beacon not accrue fatigue outside of T3s

- T3s can still be bridged but normal fatigue applies to the T3 pilot

- A Black Ops BS CAN bridge/jump to a normal Cyno but normal fatigue rules apply

- Jumping/being bridged to a covert cyno causes pilot to be unable jump/bridge to regular cyno for 24 hours from the jump.


Can't exempt BLOPS from fatigue, otherwise you'd just have Sins / Redeemers being the Pony Express for stealth bomber fleets of cap pilots to speed across the universe, arriving in the cap staging system with zero fatigue. That's no bueno.



Okay we've pointed out interceptors, Nullified Cloaky T3s, and good ole fashioned jump clones as reasons the pony express isn't too big of a deal. I say frigate like archons make it less of an issue as well :)

Every day I'm wafflin!

Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#6213 - 2014-10-03 23:54:27 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Jessica Duranin wrote:
M T Steph wrote:
Whats next CCP? Capital ships in hi sec?

Why not?


Because imagine marmites or other high sec mercs with nuetral triage plus refits if they know their shiny is going to die

Neutral triage at jita undock doesn't sound like a very clever idea tbh. Everyone would undock dreads to shoot the suspect carrier that now can't dock for five minutes.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#6214 - 2014-10-04 00:00:20 UTC
S13UTH wrote:
The nerf to JFers makes design sense; without the nerf players will simply circumvent these careful plans by using JFers to instantly get to capital caches.

This Dev Blog makes me want to resub my accounts, so I can unsub with a new reason.


Jump freighters also cost 7b each... try again.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6215 - 2014-10-04 00:01:32 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Jessica Duranin wrote:
M T Steph wrote:
Whats next CCP? Capital ships in hi sec?

Why not?


Because imagine marmites or other high sec mercs with nuetral triage plus refits if they know their shiny is going to die

Neutral triage at jita undock doesn't sound like a very clever idea tbh. Everyone would undock dreads to shoot the suspect carrier that now can't dock for five minutes.


Your assuming the common jita rabble have dreadnoughts or would want to undock them and risk it being a trap, since supers could be high sec too. Generally this is an all around bad idea so they should stay in low/null/j-space

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#6216 - 2014-10-04 00:05:10 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
S13UTH wrote:
The nerf to JFers makes design sense; without the nerf players will simply circumvent these careful plans by using JFers to instantly get to capital caches.

This Dev Blog makes me want to resub my accounts, so I can unsub with a new reason.

Then give JF the same 7.5 lightyear range that BLOPS have, since BLOPS can be used for the same exact purpose and can even use regular cynos.


Any bets on how long it'll take before we see people BLOPSing multiple (and much cheaper) Prorators and other blockade runners to move their stuff around instead of using jump freighters? :)

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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Erica Rotineque
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6217 - 2014-10-04 00:07:06 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Jessica Duranin wrote:
M T Steph wrote:
Whats next CCP? Capital ships in hi sec?

Why not?


Because imagine marmites or other high sec mercs with nuetral triage plus refits if they know their shiny is going to die

Neutral triage at jita undock doesn't sound like a very clever idea tbh. Everyone would undock dreads to shoot the suspect carrier that now can't dock for five minutes.


Your assuming the common jita rabble have dreadnoughts or would want to undock them and risk it being a trap, since supers could be high sec too. Generally this is an all around bad idea so they should stay in low/null/j-space


The simple solution is to have triage + seige + fighters only available in low + null + WH, and have high sec as simply a method to get from a-b with capitals.
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#6218 - 2014-10-04 00:12:05 UTC
posting
Arrendis
TK Corp
#6219 - 2014-10-04 00:13:37 UTC
Greygal wrote:
Any bets on how long it'll take before we see people BLOPSing multiple (and much cheaper) Prorators and other blockade runners to move their stuff around instead of using jump freighters? :)



Considering that'll mean a longer full-length fatigue (1 + distance, still applies!), rather than the much shorter 1+(distance * 0.1) from jump freighters, and 30 or so blockade-runner loads to a jump freighter load... I doubt it.
Alyssia Nakrar
Kitsune Manufacturing
#6220 - 2014-10-04 00:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssia Nakrar
I wonder what effect this will have on indi after all just a few months ago you put out a patch to cause indi to spread out but lmitting JF's to 5 ly seams to me like it would pull it back into the hubs

also i know some corps use carriers to transport fit ships for new members to were the corp is located this would now become prohibtivly time consuming

and with carriers using gates i can see some corps dooing 20 carrier low sec romes has this even ben thought of

i would sugest leaving JF ranges the same and posably add a JF varient that could transport fit ships but has to dock to load/unload them