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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Bob TSlob
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6101 - 2014-10-03 21:27:22 UTC
Thanks for the tears CCP. This may kill the game, but doing nothing would be worse. I hope the game survives because 0.0 might be fun again.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6102 - 2014-10-03 21:28:08 UTC
Rowells wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Rowells wrote:


A healthy local economy will most like provide the materials it can produce to its pilots (plenty of T1 ships) while the materials that cannot be procured there will either be found in highsec or in agreements with local groups. Keep in mind not every need will be met and this will create shortages on certain supplies and possible surpluses for others. Those are what should be traded. Because logistics just became harder, not impossible.


I've lived in null under several different situations some deep some close to high sec some with start up renters and once with a big well established Alliance in a -1.0 station. I've never seen a local economy in null that was healthy enough to not need regular trips to high sec. I've seen nothing in the industrial patch that will change that to any large degree.

I think both you and Greyscale are missing some basic concepts of how the human brain works as well as some social concepts that you are ignoring.

Yes to some degree what you said here will need to happen and will happen no doubt about that. What I am saying here is that the net affect of these changes barring some other huge bombshell game changer that they drop on us will be less active null and null activity being exponentially inverse to it's distance beyond 5 LY from a HS gate system.

Those examples were under the current system. Things being spuer-mass produced in highsec+relatively cheap movement of materials made it extremely easy for industrialists to do everything themselves. Some people would even ship their materials to highsec to get quicker deals. As logistic costs go up, youll see an oppurtunity grow for local production to pick up on those profits. Will there likely be an overall increase in everything dealing with nullsec? very likely. And i think that the aspect of materials and rewards in null needs to be looked at again after the changes.

I think you are missing the point. I'm saying that the relatively cheap movement of goods is what allowed for the population levels in null without it I think that population will decrease. I think you are saying that when cheap freight goes away that population will stay roughly the same or go up and local suppuly will pick up the slack. I guess we'll see who's closer to correct in a few months.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Kalissis
#6103 - 2014-10-03 21:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalissis
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much

I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end?


That's some serious hyperbole.

The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi.

How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way?



Does Walking In Stations count?


Not even close the the fuckup that was the NGE.



Kk but SOE never Boot.ini'd it's players and blew up their computers.

But yeah there is not *direct* comparison to that nightmare and this.... but the scars... oh the scars they're enough to make a player unsubb anyway.


I will say this once to you: your blue donut is losing the argument, your self created boredom is coming to an end, go sit in TIDI while you can and please stop shitposting in here.

CCP is making the right decision, saving the game.
Sigras
Conglomo
#6104 - 2014-10-03 21:31:01 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Dany Targaryen wrote:
As a player who lives in null sec and relies on jump bridges to get around this is a terrible change.

I've been playing since beta and this by far is the worst thing you've done to your game since... well ever...

You know... there are these things called "Stargates". You can use them to get to other systems - even in nullsec.
Pretty sure they existed even in the beta.

If he really was a beta player, he would remember that the beta didnt have jump bridges, or jump drives, or jump freighters, or regular freighters, or any other cap ship...

He would remember that 0.0 functioned just fine out there, even before POSs.

He would remember that the game worked fine partially because it wasnt hot drop o'clock 23.5/7
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#6105 - 2014-10-03 21:31:05 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:

So again. This might promote some more roaming (undoubtedly a good thing) but I don't see it really changing things much, at least on the western side of the map.
Agreed. Western side of the map is going to be locked down pretty hard. There are only two entrances to Cloud Ring from low sec - both over 5 AU away. VERY easy to lock down. You can jump to Cloud Ring from Alparena, but it will be impossible to set up any sort of supply lines needed to win an "occupancy war" with your alliance.

Maybe they change sov to "Actity Based" in which case at least your guys will log in every day and pew rather than not log in at all for months at a time. That's a good thing, right?


What does locked down mean, when you can't cyno inhibit a gate?
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6106 - 2014-10-03 21:32:26 UTC
Is this the longest thread ever on eve-o forums? Just wondering Cool
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#6107 - 2014-10-03 21:35:13 UTC
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
You know if you turn the number 300 vertically it kinda does look like a ASCII version of poopsocking.... which you fanboi's should be expecting do a lot of if your still planning on flying Capitals!

300


YOu see it too right? Lol


Funny thing here is that I am now training for a dread because of the changes. That's something I never expected to do..


Enjoy that training grind for Jump Cal V so you can get your way awesome 5 LY jump range m8 Lol
No problem, already there,,,Smile
And with so many apparently quitting, it only means people like me will be in higher demand. Well, at least my JF servicesCool


exactly, and good luck to you and your new empire
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#6108 - 2014-10-03 21:35:44 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Is this the longest thread ever on eve-o forums? Just wondering Cool

Nope.

Not even the thread with the most people saying they quit but keep on posting even though they're leaving and couldn't care less about this horrible game.

Oh... the drama!

Mr Epeen Cool
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6109 - 2014-10-03 21:36:54 UTC
Kalissis wrote:


I will say this once to you: your blue donut is losing the argument, your self created boredom is coming to an end, go sit in TIDI while you can and please stop shitposting in here.

CCP is making the right decision, saving the game.


Not sure if you have noticed but near all null alliance leadership have shrugged their shoulders and told CCP to carry on.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#6110 - 2014-10-03 21:38:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kalissis wrote:


I will say this once to you: your blue donut is losing the argument, your self created boredom is coming to an end, go sit in TIDI while you can and please stop shitposting in here.

CCP is making the right decision, saving the game.


Not sure if you have noticed but near all null alliance leadership have shrugged their shoulders and told CCP to carry on.


LOL! I'd be impressed if you managed to type that with a straight face.

Mr Epeen Cool
Sentinel Eeex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6111 - 2014-10-03 21:39:12 UTC
The highlight of this thread, without the doubt, are these 5-6 grrgoon high-sec mission runners drowning in their spit.

Cute Big smile
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#6112 - 2014-10-03 21:39:35 UTC  |  Edited by: xttz
Probably a bit late to spitball, but what the hell.

1) Set all ship jump ranges to exactly 10 light years. Carriers, Titans, Blops, everything. Starbase JBs remain at 5LY.
2) Jump fatigue is measured from 1-100%. Whenever you jump, your fatigue is increased by whatever percentage of 10LY you jump. So a 4LY jump adds 40% fatigue, 8.5LY adds 85%, etc. Simple.
3) Fatigue decays on a curve akin to shields and cap regen, just in reverse. This means that it's much quicker to go from 30% to 20% than from 100% to 90%.
4) Until the fatigue decays completely, this percentage is a limit on subsequent jumps. Someone with a 90% fatigue cannot jump more than 1LY, while someone on 35% fatigue can jump up to 6.5LY
5) Special-cases like blops, freighters and JFs build fatigue at a reduced rate (50% is probably fair).
6) Training Jump Drive Calibration speeds up fatigue decay.

This is far simpler to understand for players, easier to do math on the fly, and means less sitting around waiting on cooldown timers doing nothing in what's meant to be a video game. Inter-region travel is just as slow, but local travel is viable. There's an incentive for players to make shorter jumps or take gates, as recovering from a long jump would take much longer than several shorter ones.
The higher range introduces a trade-off for jump-capable combat ships; the further away they hide the easier it is to make a surprise attack, but the harder it becomes to get away again. In the future, power projection can be tuned by simply adjusting the base rate of fatigue decay.

Examples:

An Archon pilot jumps from Sahkt to Karan, a distance of 6.32LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at 63.2%. His next jump must be 3.68LY or less, although this will gradually increase as fatigue decays.

A jump freighter pilot jumps from CCP-US to DO6H-Q, a distance of 3.24LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at a reduced rate of 16.2% (half of 32.4%). His next jump must be 8.38LY or less, although this will gradually increase as fatigue decays.

A Rifter pilot takes a starbase jump bridge between CCP-US and DO6H-Q, a distance of 3.24LY. After the jump, his fatigue is set at 32.4%. His next jump must be 6.76LY or less, meaning he can use at least one more Jump Bridge immediately. This means a return trip is easily possible, but using more than 1-2 bridges means a lengthy delay.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6113 - 2014-10-03 21:40:23 UTC
Kalissis wrote:


I will say this once to you: your blue donut is losing the argument, your self created boredom is coming to an end, go sit in TIDI while you can and please stop shitposting in here.

CCP is making the right decision, saving the game.


Lulz - Please say it again...

Cause no one is gonna remember your name when they see the coalitions meta an agreement on carving up home systems and then whelp on anyone that try's to move nearby (or just co-opts them entirely), but they might remember how utterly wrong you were?

See Greyscale can nuke captials - Low Sec indepdent minded pilots want nothing to do with Null, and self absorbed solo playing high sec pilots are to busy grinding ISK to ever care about Null - maybe WH pilots that are holding up well there might decide to try their hand at Null Sov *shrug

Or it could end up being a completely and utterly different dynamic, @#$@ if I know.

But the thing CCP can not control or nuke is the players - they can social engineer a design feature all they want and players will find a way around it to do what they want anyway. It is a sandbox after all.

So very little is going to change, because they built the game this way (intentionally or not).

So please, you mad bro? Please tell it to me again, k? Twisted

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#6114 - 2014-10-03 21:41:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
baltec1 wrote:
Kalissis wrote:


I will say this once to you: your blue donut is losing the argument, your self created boredom is coming to an end, go sit in TIDI while you can and please stop shitposting in here.

CCP is making the right decision, saving the game.


Not sure if you have noticed but near all null alliance leadership have shrugged their shoulders and told CCP to carry on.


Yes, and your rank and file members posting here, especially the logistics ones, are completely infuriated, and predicting skyrocketing T2 prices and people giving up and moving back to empire, and RIP Eve. Not to mention the proliferation of "I quit Eve forever...-77 accounts" posts.
Goin Off
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
#6115 - 2014-10-03 21:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Goin Off
CCP Logibro wrote:
Changes are coming to how long distance travel works in EVE Online. If use jump drives, then this is an important dev blog for you. Find all the details from CCP Greyscale and the Nullsec working group here.




I really think that you should consider re-thinking this proposal:

1. It's not confusing enough, if you happen to be the developer then you can probably make perfect sense of this nonsense.

2. Going to make it nigh impossible for the newer cap pilots to move their assets into null sec.

3. Will make it even more difficult for the smaller alliances to compete in low and null sec, the few largest alliances will still overwhelm with their numbers.

4. Capitals going gate to gate, "laughable" except for the largest alliances who are able to carry their "TIDI" around with them.

5. Drop in subscriber base due to theses changes may very well make capital gate to gate travel feasible since there will be so few subscribers spread out over so many systems

6. And most importantly, this is proof positive that ya can't fix "stupid"!!! And these proposals are just that.

ShockedShockedShockedRollRollRoll


BTW, Why not just make the time you have to wait to make the next jump equal to the number of light years you have to jump?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#6116 - 2014-10-03 21:42:04 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
[
I think you are missing the point. I'm saying that the relatively cheap movement of goods is what allowed for the population levels in null without it I think that population will decrease. I think you are saying that when cheap freight goes away that population will stay roughly the same or go up and local suppuly will pick up the slack. I guess we'll see who's closer to correct in a few months.


I think that the larger alliances like goonswarm will move to ecpar in cloud ring which is close to high sec and all the other major players will follow suit which will mean that smaller alliances and corps will fill the vacum in deep space as they will be willing to take the risk and the space is filled with outposts.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6117 - 2014-10-03 21:42:06 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:


LOL! I'd be impressed if you managed to type that with a straight face.

Mr Epeen Cool


You honestly think we of all people are going to be troubled with this nerf to capitals?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#6118 - 2014-10-03 21:42:59 UTC
Sentinel Eeex wrote:
The highlight of this thread, without the doubt, are these 5-6 grrgoon high-sec mission runners drowning in their spit.

Cute Big smile


Let me wade through the ocean of null tears and see if I can find that little puddle of which you speak.

Mr Epeen Cool
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#6119 - 2014-10-03 21:43:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kalissis wrote:


I will say this once to you: your blue donut is losing the argument, your self created boredom is coming to an end, go sit in TIDI while you can and please stop shitposting in here.

CCP is making the right decision, saving the game.


Not sure if you have noticed but near all null alliance leadership have shrugged their shoulders and told CCP to carry on.


Trench warfare.

You delusional people really think this changes things for you.

We ( the null bears ) even have time to get contingency plans in place not to mention stage assets strategically.
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#6120 - 2014-10-03 21:45:07 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much

I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end?


That's some serious hyperbole.

The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi.

How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way?



Does Walking In Stations count?


Walking in stations is dead it's been re classified to waiting in stations.

WIS is reborn without any effort to finish the previous incarnation.