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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Joachim Weiss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6081 - 2014-10-03 21:11:18 UTC
Kalissis wrote:
Joachim Weiss wrote:
Kalissis wrote:


Do the math please, its exactly how it is now, there is very little fatigue for moving close ranges.


But if I'm not mistaken, under the current proposal, all jumps are considered the same in terms of location and cool down. I think that you should have free and unpenalized movement within a constellation, and only a small if any cool down to change constellations within a region, but heavily deterred in changing regions with a cool down timer. The cool downs should be location based, not range based. It would solve the problem of every day logistics within a home region, not burden a logistics pilot with a cool down for a fleet later that requires he fly a carrier or dread, while making rapid movement map wide much longer. If the goal is to promote using the space you're currently in, there should be relatively unrestricted movement range/cool down time within realistic ranges, not arbitrary distances.


The strategy will be to do your logistics before any timers like 12h before so even ~20ly distances are cooled down. Sure logistics will need to adopt but what CCP is trying to do is to stop making EVE into an "instant action" game, there a hundrets of online games better suited for that. And I think you will find that those changes are also benificial for groups like BL with minor adjustments, because once you deploy to a region you will be able to do your "hot drops" in that region, just plan a little ahead and create rules for logistics/fight drops.

On the other hand you will see groups like Black Frog Fright created, adopt and evolve, that will be there to help with your burden of all day logistics.


I think the spirit of the changes is in the right direction, I just feel it is too heavy handed in treating jumping in general as a bad thing. I thought the issue we all rallied against was larger capital alliances projecting their influence, not groups participating in unrestricted capital warfare within a region. I'm not so worried about timers, many of the most exciting things to happen to eve have been spur of the moment occasions that everyone remembers, and the ability to participate in ones that occur in your region should be something that is promoted, not potentially penalized the same way as someone who tries to travel across the universe to get there. Make it a sov upgrade so that constellation has a reduced/no penalty, it'll help differentiate NPC null from Sov null and make owning space more valuable, and easier to live in, while not affecting capitals ability outside of its influence.

Not all space is equally distant. By making the cool downs location instead of distance based, it treats all systems with the same level of influence instead of making certain regions of space undesirable to live in compared to a much denser region. These changes are a perfect opportunity to not only stop unreasonable power projection, but a massive boost to a more local system.
Jethro Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6082 - 2014-10-03 21:11:44 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:



Wait wait.... so you actually were pressing CCP to add JD to Mega's, and actively training JCal V while asking? Actually expecting a possible yes??



I have pulled off more unlikely things in the pastBlink

It did kinda pay off so I guess I can call this a victory in my obsession (stubbornness) in getting oversized ships to do strange and seemingly impossible things.


And there it is.

The backpeddling.
Even more delicious than tears.


The only reason you aren't right there with him is because you're too ignorant and shortsighted to think beyond your "Grr Goons" mentality. Give it a couple of months of the new normal and you'll be begging CCP to fix it.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#6083 - 2014-10-03 21:13:14 UTC
300+ pages. Looks like null sec has proved conclusively that we can out-whine the whiniest high sec carebears. How disillusioning.

What happened to HTFU and "adapt or die"?
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#6084 - 2014-10-03 21:13:34 UTC
remus wulf wrote:
Seems CCP stopped reading this at page 200 so this seems to be just a debate between ourselves at this point.

Maybe time to lock the thread if CCP have stopped reading the feedback they asked for !



Can't lock it - mods are directing all other threads to here
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#6085 - 2014-10-03 21:13:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessica Duranin
Dany Targaryen wrote:
As a player who lives in null sec and relies on jump bridges to get around this is a terrible change.

I've been playing since beta and this by far is the worst thing you've done to your game since... well ever...

You know... there are these things called "Stargates". You can use them to get to other systems - even in nullsec.
Pretty sure they existed even in the beta.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#6086 - 2014-10-03 21:14:03 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much

I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end?


That's some serious hyperbole.

The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi.

How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way?
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6087 - 2014-10-03 21:16:23 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Ill just do a spreadsheet, (we play eve after all) and do a peek test daily and compare it to current peak subscription. If the sample polls here are indicative of what the masses will do. We all know some will leave right when it happens and some will come when it happens, it may be better to do a comparative analysis 3 months down the road after the update, then again under its current conception I wont be here. I will do my best to do some statistics on this.


Sold. I'm betting Nosy Gamer will probably be looking at similar data.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#6088 - 2014-10-03 21:16:32 UTC
BTW, about 250 of these 300 pages are full of people who have no idea how supply and demand influence pricing.

When something gets hard, people stop, until the incentive is worth the risk.

Black Frog can probably multiply their prices by 10x, and some chunk of their group is going to become space rich servicing exactly the people others are saying cannot possibly be serviced. I bet their volume goes up, not down.
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#6089 - 2014-10-03 21:16:56 UTC
remus wulf wrote:
Seems CCP stopped reading this at page 200 so this seems to be just a debate between ourselves at this point.

Maybe time to lock the thread if CCP have stopped reading the feedback they asked for !

Why? CCP has a place where they can ignore the jumpbears and people like me can still harvest the tears.
I'd call that a pretty elegant solution.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#6090 - 2014-10-03 21:17:40 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
300+ pages. Looks like null sec has proved conclusively that we can out-whine the whiniest high sec carebears. How disillusioning.

What happened to HTFU and "adapt or die"?


Clearly we meant them....and not us... duh

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Kalissis
#6091 - 2014-10-03 21:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalissis
Joachim Weiss wrote:
Kalissis wrote:
Joachim Weiss wrote:
Kalissis wrote:


Do the math please, its exactly how it is now, there is very little fatigue for moving close ranges.


But if I'm not mistaken, under the current proposal, all jumps are considered the same in terms of location and cool down. I think that you should have free and unpenalized movement within a constellation, and only a small if any cool down to change constellations within a region, but heavily deterred in changing regions with a cool down timer. The cool downs should be location based, not range based. It would solve the problem of every day logistics within a home region, not burden a logistics pilot with a cool down for a fleet later that requires he fly a carrier or dread, while making rapid movement map wide much longer. If the goal is to promote using the space you're currently in, there should be relatively unrestricted movement range/cool down time within realistic ranges, not arbitrary distances.


The strategy will be to do your logistics before any timers like 12h before so even ~20ly distances are cooled down. Sure logistics will need to adopt but what CCP is trying to do is to stop making EVE into an "instant action" game, there a hundrets of online games better suited for that. And I think you will find that those changes are also benificial for groups like BL with minor adjustments, because once you deploy to a region you will be able to do your "hot drops" in that region, just plan a little ahead and create rules for logistics/fight drops.

On the other hand you will see groups like Black Frog Fright created, adopt and evolve, that will be there to help with your burden of all day logistics.


I think the spirit of the changes is in the right direction, I just feel it is too heavy handed in treating jumping in general as a bad thing. I thought the issue we all rallied against was larger capital alliances projecting their influence, not groups participating in unrestricted capital warfare within a region. I'm not so worried about timers, many of the most exciting things to happen to eve have been spur of the moment occasions that everyone remembers, and the ability to participate in ones that occur in your region should be something that is promoted, not potentially penalized the same way as someone who tries to travel across the universe to get there. Make it a sov upgrade so that constellation has a reduced/no penalty, it'll help differentiate NPC null from Sov null and make owning space more valuable, and easier to live in, while not affecting capitals ability outside of its influence.

Not all space is equally distant. By making the cool downs location instead of distance based, it treats all systems with the same level of influence instead of making certain regions of space undesirable to live in compared to a much denser region. These changes are a perfect opportunity to not only stop unreasonable power projection, but a massive boost to a more local system.


Well, I guess we will see how it plays out. I'm looking forward to it. And I think its the best for the game even if some belive those changes are too harsh, they need to be, so possible gaps left for abuse are minimized.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6092 - 2014-10-03 21:17:54 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
300+ pages. Looks like null sec has proved conclusively that we can out-whine the whiniest high sec carebears. How disillusioning.

What happened to HTFU and "adapt or die"?


THis is an internet jihad against the False CCP Messiah Yar! Captain Neckbeard! Pirate

We're saving the game! You can't adapt if the game is dead...

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#6093 - 2014-10-03 21:18:44 UTC
Red Bluesteel wrote:
CCP if you really do it with these changes, then Eve will be a 100% Dead Game in 6-8 Weeks Attention

The following changes are acceptable for me:

  • Keep all Jump Ranges as they are
  • acceptable Jump fatigue = 2min (Standard) + 30sec per 0.5 Ly
  • after running out of this Cool down, Fatigue must be reseted. No Multiplications with old Fatigues.


e.g. 1:
If you have to travel 3 Max Jumps with an 5/5 skilled Archon (14.624 Ly), your total Fatigue will be 3*(2min+15min) = 51min.

e.g. 2:
If you have to travel 2 Jumps, 1st 10,4 Ly and 2nd 5,8 Ly, your total Fatigue will be: 2min+10,5min and 2min+6min = 20,5min.


I think that should be fair enough to be not an grand total Nurf and to travel even more will not be pain in the ass of a lifetime job.


Don't let the door hit you in the Rhea on the way out.
Kalissis
#6094 - 2014-10-03 21:18:55 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
300+ pages. Looks like null sec has proved conclusively that we can out-whine the whiniest high sec carebears. How disillusioning.

What happened to HTFU and "adapt or die"?


QFT
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#6095 - 2014-10-03 21:19:46 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Dany Targaryen wrote:
As a player who lives in null sec and relies on jump bridges to get around this is a terrible change.

I've been playing since beta and this by far is the worst thing you've done to your game since... well ever...

You know... there are these things called "Stargates". You can use them to get to other systems - even in nullsec.
Pretty sure they existed even in the beta.
"Stargates are for peasants"Big smile
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6096 - 2014-10-03 21:20:03 UTC
Gospadin wrote:

Don't let the door hit you in the Rhea on the way out.


Get out.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6097 - 2014-10-03 21:20:43 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much

I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end?


That's some serious hyperbole.

The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi.

How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way?



Does Walking In Stations count?

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6098 - 2014-10-03 21:21:29 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Hooray! Maybe there will be less PL and SCUM hotdropping shenanigans in low-sec after this!

Getting dropped by 10+ supercarriers from the outer reaches of null-sec because you have 5 battleships in a 20 man gang of cruisers and frigates is just bad.

I had a buddy in a lone cruiser that went to defend a lone miner that was getting attacked by a red cruiser get hot dropped by a PL super cap fleet. There were 7 supers on his loss mail for a lone T1 cruiser.

It may be over doing it but it was funny as hell I have to admit.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6099 - 2014-10-03 21:23:55 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much

I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end?


That's some serious hyperbole.

The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi.

How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way?



Does Walking In Stations count?


Not even close the the fuckup that was the NGE.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6100 - 2014-10-03 21:26:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much

I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end?


That's some serious hyperbole.

The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi.

How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way?



Does Walking In Stations count?


Not even close the the fuckup that was the NGE.



Kk but SOE never Boot.ini'd it's players and blew up their computers.

But yeah there is not *direct* comparison to that nightmare and this.... but the scars... oh the scars they're enough to make a player unsubb anyway.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf