These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6001 - 2014-10-03 20:10:28 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
[Oh yes, Rooks and Kings will stop ALL ceptor gangs ALL the time and NOBODY will think to send a few scouts. Oh, and nobody ever uses a bounce point when travelling through null, ever. Roll

No, they won't stop them all. But when they do... man will it have an impact.

And yes - scouts and bounce points and all that exist and will be used. People also make mistakes, and setting up on chokepoints forces folks to go around. Controlling the interior of that movement space makes it a lot harder to circumvent, and any delay screws those rushing to help.

In short, there are ways to impact even the might interceptor speed taxi of doom. They will be used, and they will have an impact. The magnitude of that impact will depend entirely on the skill of the folks involved.

I have far more faith in the skill and ingenuity of the RnK line member than a nullbear capital line pilot.


Perhaps you missed it....people can set up jump clones strategically...to help mitigate the issue of chocke points. And capital pilots in ceptors using a bridge isn't that big a deal to get by one choke point at least so I don't think the pipe bombing is going to be a significant deterrent.

You may have missed it - jump clones have a long timer, which makes them inconvenient for multiple rapid deployments in less than 24 hours. Which is the point of using interceptors instead. Especially after the death clone nerf.


Like what? The attacker is going to suddenly switch to another front? They'll.....use their jump capable..ships....too....uhhhh.....oh yeah fatigue.

One thing about this change....you wont need to move from one end of the map to the other in short periods of time. Because the changes will constrain attackers and defenders...probably more so for the attackers.

Oh yeah, and I'm in a coalition that is going to be quite happy having our opponents capital and super capital capability gimped.

So again. This might promote some more roaming (undoubtedly a good thing) but I don't see it really changing things much, at least on the western side of the map.

But keep looking, maybe that pony is in there.
beaconBoy SavesTheDay
Galactic Hauling Solutions Inc.
#6002 - 2014-10-03 20:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: beaconBoy SavesTheDay
sabastyian wrote:

TLDR:
JDC 5 Range : Titan/Super : 4.25, Dread : 5, Carrier : 6.25 ( Blops, Jf, Rorq kept at current stats. )
Fatigue Cap : 5 Minutes per jump ( regardless of distance, Jf/Rorq don' have fatigue timer )
Jump Bridge : No Fatigue
Titan Bridge : Shortened range, 3 minute fatigue timer, titan pilot can not light another bridge for 10 minutes.

JF now have a speed limit of 1 LY per minute

5 min per jump....that's exactly what CCP plans to implement for JF. Look at the math. A JF starting with a fatigue of 1 cyno hops max distance of 5 LY, then it ends up with a fatigure of 1.5. After 5 min, that decays back down to just a fatigue of 1. Rinse and repeat for your "5 Minutes per jump".

Essentially, with the changes proposed, JFs now have a speed limit of 1 LY per minute of play time.

I seriously doubt that if CCP is throwing haulers a bone with this "5 min per jump" that they're going to treat capital pilots better.
remus wulf
Deranged Chaos
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#6003 - 2014-10-03 20:10:52 UTC
remus wulf wrote:
Jethro Winchester wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
[quote=Kassasis Dakkstromri]
Could not agree more and if enough people unsub from eve maybe just maybe CCP will consider reversing wot is sure to be a major mistake.

Can we have your stuff then? Preferably before the change hits and we actually have to :effort: to get it somewhere.


Wait..you're in Justified Chaos? The GalMil corp that docked up to hide with the rest of GalMil when RDF brought a Rorqual and a 15 man frigate gang to Nennamaila station?

Considering how cowardly you guys were I think you should probably be quiet and go sit in the corner.



and i think u need to research better !




Amusing to see ur not big enough to admit when ur wrong.

perhapse learning to read wud help !
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6004 - 2014-10-03 20:12:12 UTC
You know if you turn the number 300 vertically it kinda does look like a ASCII version of poopsocking.... which you fanboi's should be expecting do a lot of if your still planning on flying Capitals!

300


YOu see it too right? Lol

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6005 - 2014-10-03 20:12:40 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:


Look, null right now has 2 big blocks for the most part. This idea of one entity being attacked on multiple fronts is unlikley. And if a single block tries it, that is going to most likley mean these power projection problems hurt them even more. This change is probably a buff to defenders.

Get it?

As for breaking things up in Null, this is not going to do it.


Yes it will.

This provides exactly the opportunities someone will need to stab a blue in the back.

And it removes the incentives for people on opposite sides of the game to be blue with each other.


I think you are a bit out of touch with the current state of null politics. While various null entities have various treaties/agreements they are not all blue to each other.


Way to go avoid the entire point of the post.

This will result in a massive shakeup of whatever agreements and standings exist. New blues will be made, olds will go away, new agreements will be established and old ones will go away.

It's all about opportunity.
There is none with magic capships instantly everywhere online.
There is with these changes. Period.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

Joachim Weiss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6006 - 2014-10-03 20:12:47 UTC
While the end result seems to be promising in terms of shaking things up, I feel as if the timers and ranges need to be addressed. I couldn't possibly pretend to figure the proper math, but my general ideas would be that jumping within a constellation is penalty free, changing constellations within a region can incur some penalty, but nothing that would impact local travel significantly, while changing regions would incur a great penalty, thus deterring rapid movement across the galaxy, but letting local inhabitants do the logistics needed within the region without any great worry of burn out or timers.

This would also even the playing field with capitals when it comes to fighting/invasions in single region combat. As once you move capitals to the target region, with plenty of delays to get there, both the home and defenders would have the same range and freedom of movement.

If this has been suggested already, I apologize, nobody can be expected to keep up with this thread.
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#6007 - 2014-10-03 20:13:29 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
300 YES!



THIS IS EVE!!!


FREE BROKEN TITANS FOR AALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6008 - 2014-10-03 20:15:57 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
300 YES!



THIS IS EVE!!!


FREE BROKEN TITANS FOR AALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL



AND REPROCESS!!


*But don't RMT... cause that will get you banned - and ofc always do as CCP says (not as they do) Blink

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6009 - 2014-10-03 20:16:42 UTC
Gwailar wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
This change is probably a buff to defenders.

Get it?


That's what nerfing force projection means.

The more I think about it, the more excited I get. I don't think anyone--nullbears or otherwise--knows where this will lead, and that fact itself is a plus in my book.

Time to shake up the sandbox.


No you think it means that. You have not shown how it has to lead to a break up of the big coalitions.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6010 - 2014-10-03 20:16:54 UTC
Joachim Weiss wrote:
While the end result seems to be promising in terms of shaking things up, I feel as if the timers and ranges need to be addressed. I couldn't possibly pretend to figure the proper math, but my general ideas would be that jumping within a constellation is penalty free, changing constellations within a region can incur some penalty, but nothing that would impact local travel significantly, while changing regions would incur a great penalty, thus deterring rapid movement across the galaxy, but letting local inhabitants do the logistics needed within the region without any great worry of burn out or timers.

This would also even the playing field with capitals when it comes to fighting/invasions in single region combat. As once you move capitals to the target region, with plenty of delays to get there, both the home and defenders would have the same range and freedom of movement.

If this has been suggested already, I apologize, nobody can be expected to keep up with this thread.


That's pretty much it.

And if you do want to move your caps to a neighboring region. Make the dozen or so gate hops to do it past whatever the edge of your initial jump is.

45min after that's made you're going to be ready to rock again with another jump with no lingering effects.

It really is no big deal. It slows things down just enough for strategy to emerge. Not that the allegedly unsubbed doomsayers here can wrap their heads around that.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6011 - 2014-10-03 20:17:58 UTC
davet517 wrote:
This is your opening. Step up. Set your neighbors red. Stop paying rent. Purge that blue list.

If you can assemble even a smallish super-cap fleet, you can hold a pocket against some feudal lord coming at you with a cache of dreads that they stashed. If they move their supers at you, just turtle up, make them grind the structures, then take them back when they bounce. Or, you could hire some mercs Blink.

Most of you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Sure, if you insist on maintaining your long list of blues and paying rent, this change will just make doing that a pain in the butt. If enough of you see it as your chance to break free, it gives you a much better shot at doing it than you have now.

Yeah, you're going to have to be a little bit inventive. If you live in deep 0.0 you might have to scout some wormhole routes and take advantage of them when you get them to get stuff from empire until CCP makes it more possible to be self-sufficient. Figuring out how to survive against the odds is where the fun is. Without the risk, it just becomes a grind. Do you really need another grind in your life?

Start theory-crafting a plan for yourself, and take a shot. Or, just take up space.

... said the PL spider to the fly >:D
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6012 - 2014-10-03 20:18:18 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:


Look, null right now has 2 big blocks for the most part. This idea of one entity being attacked on multiple fronts is unlikley. And if a single block tries it, that is going to most likley mean these power projection problems hurt them even more. This change is probably a buff to defenders.

Get it?

As for breaking things up in Null, this is not going to do it.


Yes it will.

This provides exactly the opportunities someone will need to stab a blue in the back.

And it removes the incentives for people on opposite sides of the game to be blue with each other.


I think you are a bit out of touch with the current state of null politics. While various null entities have various treaties/agreements they are not all blue to each other.


Way to go avoid the entire point of the post.

This will result in a massive shakeup of whatever agreements and standings exist. New blues will be made, olds will go away, new agreements will be established and old ones will go away.

It's all about opportunity.
There is none with magic capships instantly everywhere online.
There is with these changes. Period.


Asserting that something has to happen is far from a reaonable or logical argument...but then again this is the Eve O forums where things like, "Your tears are delicious" counts as a post of the highest calibre. v0v
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#6013 - 2014-10-03 20:20:08 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
300 YES!



THIS IS EVE!!!


FREE BROKEN TITANS FOR AALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL



AND REPROCESS!!


*But don't RMT... cause that will get you banned - and ofc always do as CCP says (not as they do) Blink


Bah don't want them accounts anyway.

Time to sort out my carriers and just pack them with strontium jump fuel is redundant now they can use gates.

This just makes them harder to kill not easier since 70% odd capacitor is not wasted getting to the fight.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#6014 - 2014-10-03 20:20:19 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:

So again. This might promote some more roaming (undoubtedly a good thing) but I don't see it really changing things much, at least on the western side of the map.
Agreed. Western side of the map is going to be locked down pretty hard. There are only two entrances to Cloud Ring from low sec - both over 5 AU away. VERY easy to lock down. You can jump to Cloud Ring from Alparena, but it will be impossible to set up any sort of supply lines needed to win an "occupancy war" with your alliance.

Maybe they change sov to "Actity Based" in which case at least your guys will log in every day and pew rather than not log in at all for months at a time. That's a good thing, right?
Kalissis
#6015 - 2014-10-03 20:20:26 UTC
Joachim Weiss wrote:
While the end result seems to be promising in terms of shaking things up, I feel as if the timers and ranges need to be addressed. I couldn't possibly pretend to figure the proper math, but my general ideas would be that jumping within a constellation is penalty free, changing constellations within a region can incur some penalty, but nothing that would impact local travel significantly, while changing regions would incur a great penalty, thus deterring rapid movement across the galaxy, but letting local inhabitants do the logistics needed within the region without any great worry of burn out or timers.

This would also even the playing field with capitals when it comes to fighting/invasions in single region combat. As once you move capitals to the target region, with plenty of delays to get there, both the home and defenders would have the same range and freedom of movement.

If this has been suggested already, I apologize, nobody can be expected to keep up with this thread.


Do the math please, its exactly how it is now, there is very little fatigue for moving close ranges.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6016 - 2014-10-03 20:20:32 UTC
Kalissis wrote:
YESSAAA! We are 300!



You know Kalissis, I just realized that in addition to cheering the 300 page mark, you were also the #6000 post on this thread (I came #5999 *sigh)

Congrats!

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Gwailar
Doomheim
#6017 - 2014-10-03 20:23:17 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Gwailar wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
This change is probably a buff to defenders.

Get it?


That's what nerfing force projection means.

The more I think about it, the more excited I get. I don't think anyone--nullbears or otherwise--knows where this will lead, and that fact itself is a plus in my book.

Time to shake up the sandbox.


No you think it means that. You have not shown how it has to lead to a break up of the big coalitions.


The whole point of the big coalitions is you join up or get squished--immediately and repeatedly.

Well, the big blocks won't have their galaxy-spanning hammer any more.

I mean, I could be wrong, but in the absence of a control mechanism, something tells me pure loyalty to the man isn't going to be enough to hold things together.

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat

Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6018 - 2014-10-03 20:23:51 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
300 YES!



THIS IS EVE!!!


FREE BROKEN TITANS FOR AALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL



AND REPROCESS!!


*But don't RMT... cause that will get you banned - and ofc always do as CCP says (not as they do) Blink


Bah don't want them accounts anyway.

Time to sort out my carriers and just pack them with strontium jump fuel is redundant now they can use gates.

This just makes them harder to kill not easier since 70% odd capacitor is not wasted getting to the fight.



Yep...


Oh and again: 300

The ASCII version of poopsocking - You see it too right? Ya... I know you do Lol


Also: Total shame that CSM never did really show up to this Threadnaught - even posting a blank post would have been a better message than not showing up at all in protest!

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Six Beavers
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6019 - 2014-10-03 20:23:52 UTC
Mostly here to get in on a 300+ page thread. oh and I think these changes are going to be great for the game!

Thead Enco
Domheimed
#6020 - 2014-10-03 20:24:14 UTC
Elsa Hayes wrote:
Renters quitting but lots of bitter vets re-subbing I wonder what would be the better trade for the game, this or the current status quo???



BITTERVETS INCOMING, TAKE COVER