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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#5961 - 2014-10-03 19:53:08 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
[Oh yes, Rooks and Kings will stop ALL ceptor gangs ALL the time and NOBODY will think to send a few scouts. Oh, and nobody ever uses a bounce point when travelling through null, ever. Roll

No, they won't stop them all. But when they do... man will it have an impact.

And yes - scouts and bounce points and all that exist and will be used. People also make mistakes, and setting up on chokepoints forces folks to go around. Controlling the interior of that movement space makes it a lot harder to circumvent, and any delay screws those rushing to help.

In short, there are ways to impact even the might interceptor speed taxi of doom. They will be used, and they will have an impact. The magnitude of that impact will depend entirely on the skill of the folks involved.

I have far more faith in the skill and ingenuity of the RnK line member than a nullbear capital line pilot.


Perhaps you missed it....people can set up jump clones strategically...to help mitigate the issue of chocke points. And capital pilots in ceptors using a bridge isn't that big a deal to get by one choke point at least so I don't think the pipe bombing is going to be a significant deterrent.


I didn't miss it. And you basically acknodledged my key point. Yes, they can bypass the choke points with jump clones. Yes they can take advantage of other things to get them to the fight. But taking advantage of those things takes planning, and it takes coordination. And it leaves you vulerable in other areas, unless you're wiling to split your forces. It's a trade off - CCP isn't limiting us, they're forcing us to have to make significant choices about what's valuable to our space tribes.

If we choose to defend X, we may not be able to get back in time to defend Y, unlike today where we can defend X, Y, and Z in a matter of minutes.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5962 - 2014-10-03 19:53:37 UTC
Miyammato Musashi wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Lets get into reality here real quick. This update is going through, we mostly know that. Some of us are just hoping, small hope, there is some reason on board with the dev group. there is no reason to wager, it will not be needed. However, I do wager this will reduce subs by at least 10 percent. That is a bet we can make.

I'll take that action. What do you want to bet? I think it'll be a lot less... I wonder if 10% of the player base can even fly jump capable ships. Regardless, caps are still very powerful. They will have new rolls, that's all. I think flying a cap will be more interesting after the change, since the probability of getting hot dropped will be significantly lower. Pods will be more inclined to use caps for smaller skirmishes.


Reduction in modules and ships all across the board will bring a more stale game atmosphere. There was a time you had to jump all over the place to get supplies. It was boring, some of their best ideas was making jump capable ships that could travel a long distance, it really cut down on the tedious and very boring aspect of the game. What is being purposed is a devolution of current modes of supplies. It is an extremely bad idea on so many levels.

My beef isn't so much with the cap fighting ships, although I think its complete BS to punish a group for being better than another. Not sure what the logic is there. My main beef is with destroying the convenience of markets spread all around New Eden.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5963 - 2014-10-03 19:54:13 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:


Flew in null for years before JFs became a thing. We did fine taking billions through gates in slow vulnerable freighters. The fact that ya'll are so risk averse you refuse to even consider the benefit of taking a gate is telling.

The ones with balls will take the gates because it's faster, shorter, and gives them an edge. They'll take appropriate precautions in doing so.

Regarding Rorquals - if you don't see that you get 80% or so of the performance of the current carriers with a lot more mobility than the post nerf carriers, and that SOMEONE will damn sure put that into play... you're remarkably short sighted and blind to the lengths actual EVE players will go to hammer someone. Unless they address the Battle Rorqual issue before this change goes live, I predict you'll see them in action before the end of the year. 1 PLEX?

ok ok, i understand you are a reall man,
what you faill to understand is that eve have evolved since you last time left the safetty of empire; hell, freighters where really fast back then compared with today;
also you did not have bubble immune ships back then,(a good sabre pilot was able to do allot of trouble for any chasing fleet), you didn't have insta locking bombers, or cover cynos, or 3k titans or 50k ppl in the game, and so on...
so yea, the fact that you where able to do it few years ago means exactllly nothing, since allot of the game has changed; any small corp doing a freighter convoy will just take a huge risk; will they be abble to do it once? maibe, but i think just the increased time that a freighter now require to warp from gate to gate do more that triple the risk
for the larger coalitions moving freighters using titan briges will be just a piece oh cake Blink
Hicksimus
Torgue
#5964 - 2014-10-03 19:54:28 UTC
IMO It's a good time to manufacture anything with a jump drive.

Step 1) Get maximum clones
Step 2) Place them around EvE
Step 3) Use all that ISK CCP has thrown at you for years to get as many capitals as you have clones
Step 4) Use(exploit?) NPC Nullsec/Lowsec stations to store capitals in strategic locations.
Step 5) ?????????
Step 6) Profit/ Maintain Status Quo

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
Gwailar
Doomheim
#5965 - 2014-10-03 19:54:52 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Now if you think big power blocks are going to suddenly shrivel up to occupy much smaller areas....think again. Whatever constraints these changes will put on the defenders will most likely constrain the attackers just as much if NOT MORE. When it comes to the current political landscape, this change has not pony in it.


Rome was Rome because Rome had roads.

History is a model here. Many times in the past, the lost of a cohesive force has caused large entities to fracture. I think you may underestimate the effect that these changes may have. Coordination will be more difficult, as will punishing dissent. What benefit do ambitious renters get from going through the hassle of forming up and running around to dread caches when they could just start punching their neighbors with relative impunity?

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5966 - 2014-10-03 19:55:00 UTC
The cooldown timers on poasting won't stop page 300.


I can't wait for these changes.

They're going to end up being the best thing to happen to this game in many years.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#5967 - 2014-10-03 19:55:02 UTC
JohnPaulJones wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:


I would rather reverse your idea and make jita 4 - 4 conquerable the tears would kill the forums in seconds about people loosing stuff bwahahaha


Who's to say the idea isn't to one day make all space conquerable and CONCORD work contract under our control? Outrageous for sure but long term...meh anything is possible. Seeing as how I've been living under a rock for a few years where exactly will stargates come to play? Replace the NPC gates? Wormhole? Whats the deal?


Replace concord with PMC's

Kill off the factions ( keep FW as a hay they used to exist but look at them now ).

Give star gates the ability to be reinforced or at least develop problems like failures.

Screw wormholes they should be aborted instead stabilize these connections making W-space more static ( this could be linked with gate failures or interruptions if you will).

Abort jita and I mean burn that place and never incarnate it again it's only full of bots as it is anyway ( yeah CCP why are the bots still there ??? ).

Allow ownership of star gates with applied Taxes paid to the owners

Allow Corps ( not alliances or holding corps of alliances ) to own them

Introduce maintenance fees for the gates.

I could go on but I don't have time to quell the rage of short sighted people but there are a few ideas I would love to see since we are ripping up the free ways in favour of dirt roads.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5968 - 2014-10-03 19:55:02 UTC
twit brent wrote:
I play EVE for fun, Making travel tedious and slow is not fun.



I say its the journey not the destination

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Shadowed Blackhole
Les Loyalistes
#5969 - 2014-10-03 19:56:32 UTC
Am I 300 ? :D
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5970 - 2014-10-03 19:56:37 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
[quote=wohenhao]
Just shut it down and walk away - Unsubscribing is the only thing CCP understands.



Could not agree more and if enough people unsub from eve maybe just maybe CCP will consider reversing wot is sure to be a major mistake.


I do very much hope so... I think we're long over due for a proper apology from CCP.

I mean how many unsubb spikes and Burn Jita's do you need as a company to GET THE ******* MESSAGE!







They should definitely apologize.

....For taking so long to do what is necessary with projection and travel.

These changes will go a long way towards making that up until they do.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Naoru Kozan
Perkone
Caldari State
#5971 - 2014-10-03 19:56:42 UTC
Page 300?

All the people crying about living in Stain being impossible after the Jump Drive changes have clearly never interacted with our Rusrus brethren Smile
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5972 - 2014-10-03 19:56:49 UTC
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
[Oh yes, Rooks and Kings will stop ALL ceptor gangs ALL the time and NOBODY will think to send a few scouts. Oh, and nobody ever uses a bounce point when travelling through null, ever. Roll

No, they won't stop them all. But when they do... man will it have an impact.

And yes - scouts and bounce points and all that exist and will be used. People also make mistakes, and setting up on chokepoints forces folks to go around. Controlling the interior of that movement space makes it a lot harder to circumvent, and any delay screws those rushing to help.

In short, there are ways to impact even the might interceptor speed taxi of doom. They will be used, and they will have an impact. The magnitude of that impact will depend entirely on the skill of the folks involved.

I have far more faith in the skill and ingenuity of the RnK line member than a nullbear capital line pilot.


Perhaps you missed it....people can set up jump clones strategically...to help mitigate the issue of chocke points. And capital pilots in ceptors using a bridge isn't that big a deal to get by one choke point at least so I don't think the pipe bombing is going to be a significant deterrent.


I didn't miss it. And you basically acknodledged my key point. Yes, they can bypass the choke points with jump clones. Yes they can take advantage of other things to get them to the fight. But taking advantage of those things takes planning, and it takes coordination. And it leaves you vulerable in other areas, unless you're wiling to split your forces. It's a trade off - CCP isn't limiting us, they're forcing us to have to make significant choices about what's valuable to our space tribes.

If we choose to defend X, we may not be able to get back in time to defend Y, unlike today where we can defend X, Y, and Z in a matter of minutes.


Look, null right now has 2 big blocks for the most part. This idea of one entity being attacked on multiple fronts is unlikley. And if a single block tries it, that is going to most likley mean these power projection problems hurt them even more. This change is probably a buff to defenders.

Get it?

As for breaking things up in Null, this is not going to do it.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5973 - 2014-10-03 19:57:12 UTC
Jethro Winchester wrote:
Wait..you're in Justified Chaos? The GalMil corp that docked up to hide with the rest of GalMil when RDF brought a Rorqual and a 15 man frigate gang to Nennamaila station?

Considering how cowardly you guys were I think you should probably be quiet and go sit in the corner.

We're waving killboards around?

Ok. I've got about 3.5x as many kills as you.

JUSTK has about 7x as many kills at CYNOU.

...guess that means you ought to go sit in a corner and let the menfolk handle things, yeah?

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5974 - 2014-10-03 19:57:22 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
twit brent wrote:
I play EVE for fun, Making travel tedious and slow is not fun.



I say its the journey not the destination


It is, it really is.

Gameplay is at the gates, not at jump beacons.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#5975 - 2014-10-03 19:58:01 UTC

A link to the new Oceanus Trailer:


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5976 - 2014-10-03 19:58:15 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:


Look, null right now has 2 big blocks for the most part. This idea of one entity being attacked on multiple fronts is unlikley. And if a single block tries it, that is going to most likley mean these power projection problems hurt them even more. This change is probably a buff to defenders.

Get it?

As for breaking things up in Null, this is not going to do it.


Yes it will.

This provides exactly the opportunities someone will need to stab a blue in the back.

And it removes the incentives for people on opposite sides of the game to be blue with each other.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5977 - 2014-10-03 19:58:20 UTC
300 YES!



THIS IS EVE!!!

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5978 - 2014-10-03 19:58:53 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Lets get into reality here real quick. This update is going through, we mostly know that. Some of us are just hoping, small hope, there is some reason on board with the dev group. there is no reason to wager, it will not be needed. However, I do wager this will reduce subs by at least 10 percent. That is a bet we can make.

If we got subscription numbers I'd be down for that bet.

Something based on ACU Higher average concurrent users 4-6 weeks after Phoebe than before?

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Gwailar
Doomheim
#5979 - 2014-10-03 19:59:10 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
This change is probably a buff to defenders.

Get it?

As for breaking things up in Null, this is not going to do it.


But what happens when the defender is the renter who doesn't want to pay rent any more?

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5980 - 2014-10-03 19:59:14 UTC
Naoru Kozan wrote:
Page 300?

All the people crying about living in Stain being impossible after the Jump Drive changes have clearly never interacted with our Rusrus brethren Smile


Actually, I have lived in Stain, and no yes we did interact with the sov holders down there back then....usually to **** on them whenever we could.

Now, anyone wantint to live in Stain will be de facto vassals of the local Sov holders. Personally I see that as a bit of a loss.