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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Gwailar
Doomheim
#5921 - 2014-10-03 19:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwailar
Veskrashen wrote:

What if fatigue accumulation and it's impact on jump timers were independent factors?


This is a very good idea. Fatigue should be generated at the same rate regardless of ship, but the effect of that fatigue on cooldown timers should vary across ship types.

This simplifies the maths for the system as a whole in an intelligent way and gives very useful granularity to how cooldowns are applied. There could be all sorts of modifiers used to affect how your fatigue is converted to a cooldown based on ship type, skills, implants, you name it.

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat

Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5922 - 2014-10-03 19:27:34 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:

Wrong wrong and more wrong. If you flew in null you would know better. No one and I mean no real JF pilot will use a gate. Not now, not ever. Those that do are km. Rorquals will not be used now or ever for combat, never. The big alliances are already organized enough to compensate for this, this only effects smaller alliances starting up or coming out. It is not going to happen especially after the dev team pisses off half of null sec. No one, and I mean no one, is going to have a pleasant time getting past what will be a perma gate camp. At 5y range, believe me when I say the big alliances will have plenty of use for their super caps and titans. You have no idea what a can of worms this is going to open. Luckily I wont be here to see the debacle after my subs run out.

Logistics is not easy, that is how I know you are not a logistics pilot. Ask any of the frog guys lurking here, logistics is as dangerous as it has always been. You my friend are not a logistics pilot regardless to what you say. Any real logistics pilot understands the impact on the economy. It will destroy small alliances. Game, set, match.

Flew in null for years before JFs became a thing. We did fine taking billions through gates in slow vulnerable freighters. The fact that ya'll are so risk averse you refuse to even consider the benefit of taking a gate is telling.

The ones with balls will take the gates because it's faster, shorter, and gives them an edge. They'll take appropriate precautions in doing so.

Regarding Rorquals - if you don't see that you get 80% or so of the performance of the current carriers with a lot more mobility than the post nerf carriers, and that SOMEONE will damn sure put that into play... you're remarkably short sighted and blind to the lengths actual EVE players will go to hammer someone. Unless they address the Battle Rorqual issue before this change goes live, I predict you'll see them in action before the end of the year. 1 PLEX?

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5923 - 2014-10-03 19:27:59 UTC
Skydell wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Gregor Basiyev wrote:
So just to make it clear, you (CCP) want me to spent most of my game-time (which is a lot) with traveling and waiting?

A few days ago I just did logistics (shipping stuff from Jita with Freighters, the non-jumpy ones, to a highsec/lowsec system and then going on with JF and Carriers two jumps into our current alliance staging system). This took nearly the whole day.

Now with that changes to come, these two jumps would expand to 5 jumps with even a shorter route (14,457 LY; 6VDT to Vehan), with a total waiting time of about 3 hours. Three hours of sitting on station with one or more chars and nothing to do but spinning ships? What a nice game!

Maybe i could live with this whole jump fatigue stuff, if the wait-time would be lower, but these 5 LY jumps totally kills it.
How many Cynos do you expect me to have?
Do you really expect m to fly a 7bil ship with a lot of stuff in it through a gate or even several? In nullsec?
I wouldn't even do this in highsec!

Think about it.


or just use stargates to mittigate the distance between jumps.


I'm forced to agree with Gregor. Putting a JF on a gate in Null aint happening. Add in the change they just added that force a JF off a POS bubble and you have aren't really even able to wait out the timer properly.

They are making changes that rely on EVE players being stoopid and those EVE players are now playing other games.



Okay if you're too risk adverse to put the ship at risk just use a dst and take more trips

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

davet517
Raata Invicti
#5924 - 2014-10-03 19:28:34 UTC
This is your opening. Step up. Set your neighbors red. Stop paying rent. Purge that blue list.

If you can assemble even a smallish super-cap fleet, you can hold a pocket against some feudal lord coming at you with a cache of dreads that they stashed. If they move their supers at you, just turtle up, make them grind the structures, then take them back when they bounce. Or, you could hire some mercs Blink.

Most of you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Sure, if you insist on maintaining your long list of blues and paying rent, this change will just make doing that a pain in the butt. If enough of you see it as your chance to break free, it gives you a much better shot at doing it than you have now.

Yeah, you're going to have to be a little bit inventive. If you live in deep 0.0 you might have to scout some wormhole routes and take advantage of them when you get them to get stuff from empire until CCP makes it more possible to be self-sufficient. Figuring out how to survive against the odds is where the fun is. Without the risk, it just becomes a grind. Do you really need another grind in your life?

Start theory-crafting a plan for yourself, and take a shot. Or, just take up space.
wohenhao
Watschn Inc.
#5925 - 2014-10-03 19:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: wohenhao
I can only say when this is coming to EvE then im locking to Playing a other GameShocked I dont want Waste my time and my Money at EvE anymore. I like to prefer then playing an other Game. And many of my Corp Mates think so. So CCP you have my Statement too this. Too many Facts are Affectet from this.

- 3 Accounts when the Chance is Coming
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5926 - 2014-10-03 19:32:06 UTC
Toriessian wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:

Can't exempt BLOPS from fatigue, otherwise you'd just have Sins / Redeemers being the Pony Express for stealth bomber fleets of cap pilots to speed across the universe, arriving in the cap staging system with zero fatigue. That's no bueno.


And they wouldn't be able to do anything for 24 hours with my idea. Normal caps can't jump to covert cynos. That literally makes it better for them to use interceptors, which could also get the pilot anywhere he wants in 20-30 minutes relatively risk free.

Interceptor making my idea on the 24 hour limit kinda blah as is.

Interceptors can be smartbombed to hell by well organized fleets with solid intel, though. I suspect that Rooks and Kings among others will be plugged into all the right intel channels just waiting for the right day to ruin some bloc's response to a timer.

Which doesn't totally invalidate your point about interceptors as taxis, but nullbears be crying regardless, so meh.

One of the things I like about the multiple modifiers is that you can do things to tweak the impacts of fatigue accumulation and distance traveled. This gives CCP a lot more flexibility than arbitrary timers, gives players choices to make and tradeoffs to consider, and all the emergent gameplay that comes with it.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5927 - 2014-10-03 19:32:36 UTC
davet517 wrote:
This is your opening. Step up. Set your neighbors red. Stop paying rent. Purge that blue list.

If you can assemble even a smallish super-cap fleet, you can hold a pocket against some feudal lord coming at you with a cache of dreads that they stashed. If they move their supers at you, just turtle up, make them grind the structures, then take them back when they bounce. Or, you could hire some mercs Blink.

Most of you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Sure, if you insist on maintaining your long list of blues and paying rent, this change will just make doing that a pain in the butt. If enough of you see it as your chance to break free, it gives you a much better shot at doing it than you have now.

Yeah, you're going to have to be a little bit inventive. If you live in deep 0.0 you might have to scout some wormhole routes and take advantage of them when you get them to get stuff from empire until CCP makes it more possible to be self-sufficient. Figuring out how to survive against the odds is where the fun is. Without the risk, it just becomes a grind. Do you really need another grind in your life?

Start theory-crafting a plan for yourself, and take a shot. Or, just take up space.



What he said

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5928 - 2014-10-03 19:33:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kun'ii Zenya
Veskrashen wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:

Wrong wrong and more wrong. If you flew in null you would know better. No one and I mean no real JF pilot will use a gate. Not now, not ever. Those that do are km. Rorquals will not be used now or ever for combat, never. The big alliances are already organized enough to compensate for this, this only effects smaller alliances starting up or coming out. It is not going to happen especially after the dev team pisses off half of null sec. No one, and I mean no one, is going to have a pleasant time getting past what will be a perma gate camp. At 5y range, believe me when I say the big alliances will have plenty of use for their super caps and titans. You have no idea what a can of worms this is going to open. Luckily I wont be here to see the debacle after my subs run out.

Logistics is not easy, that is how I know you are not a logistics pilot. Ask any of the frog guys lurking here, logistics is as dangerous as it has always been. You my friend are not a logistics pilot regardless to what you say. Any real logistics pilot understands the impact on the economy. It will destroy small alliances. Game, set, match.

Flew in null for years before JFs became a thing. We did fine taking billions through gates in slow vulnerable freighters. The fact that ya'll are so risk averse you refuse to even consider the benefit of taking a gate is telling.

The ones with balls will take the gates because it's faster, shorter, and gives them an edge. They'll take appropriate precautions in doing so.

Regarding Rorquals - if you don't see that you get 80% or so of the performance of the current carriers with a lot more mobility than the post nerf carriers, and that SOMEONE will damn sure put that into play... you're remarkably short sighted and blind to the lengths actual EVE players will go to hammer someone. Unless they address the Battle Rorqual issue before this change goes live, I predict you'll see them in action before the end of the year. 1 PLEX?


Look we all wish we could be as big and tough as you and get a model girlfriend and learn karate too....but the point is people wont have to do the freighter convoys. JFs will still work. Existing methods may no longer be sufficient, but people can solve that problem.

So you can button up your shirt, we are all impressed by your man boo...errr pecs. Roll
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#5929 - 2014-10-03 19:33:46 UTC
wohenhao wrote:
I can only say when this is coming to EvE then im locking to Playing a other GameShocked I dont want Waste my time and my Money at EvE anymore. I like to prefer then playing an other Game. And many of my Corp Mates think so. So CCP you have my Statement too this. Too many Facts are Affectet from this.



Just shut it down and walk away - Unsubscribing is the only thing CCP understands.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Kalissis
#5930 - 2014-10-03 19:35:04 UTC
Brittney Calm wrote:
Bezdar22 wrote:
playing eve for abt 5 years now... i think its a good time to look for something else .. may be take out that cute girl next door is a good idea..
good bye EVE


8+ years on all my accounts.

1. Moving all assets off those accounts - Check
2. Selling off all capitals before they are worth nothing - Check
3. Sold Capital BPO's - Check
4. chance of un subbing all my accounts after patch 100%

Good job CCP, took 8 years, I guess if we managed to get super capital pilots and ships we have won eve, nothing more to achieve..

btw A+ on the cloaking affect I am sure you spent lots of dev dollars doing that, bravo.


-BC


I know offtopic, please can I have your stuff? Your tears I got already... TwistedTwisted
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5931 - 2014-10-03 19:35:57 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:

Can't exempt BLOPS from fatigue, otherwise you'd just have Sins / Redeemers being the Pony Express for stealth bomber fleets of cap pilots to speed across the universe, arriving in the cap staging system with zero fatigue. That's no bueno.


And they wouldn't be able to do anything for 24 hours with my idea. Normal caps can't jump to covert cynos. That literally makes it better for them to use interceptors, which could also get the pilot anywhere he wants in 20-30 minutes relatively risk free.

Interceptor making my idea on the 24 hour limit kinda blah as is.

Interceptors can be smartbombed to hell by well organized fleets with solid intel, though. I suspect that Rooks and Kings among others will be plugged into all the right intel channels just waiting for the right day to ruin some bloc's response to a timer.

Which doesn't totally invalidate your point about interceptors as taxis, but nullbears be crying regardless, so meh.

One of the things I like about the multiple modifiers is that you can do things to tweak the impacts of fatigue accumulation and distance traveled. This gives CCP a lot more flexibility than arbitrary timers, gives players choices to make and tradeoffs to consider, and all the emergent gameplay that comes with it.



Oh yes, Rooks and Kings will stop ALL ceptor gangs ALL the time and NOBODY will think to send a few scouts. Oh, and nobody ever uses a bounce point when travelling through null, ever. Roll
white male privilege
Doomheim
#5932 - 2014-10-03 19:37:38 UTC
wohenhao wrote:
I can only say when this is coming to EvE then im locking to Playing a other GameShocked I dont want Waste my time and my Money at EvE anymore. I like to prefer then playing an other Game. And many of my Corp Mates think so. So CCP you have my Statement too this. Too many Facts are Affectet from this.

- 3 Accounts when the Chance is Coming

everyone is saddened by the idea of a renter throwing in the towel
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5933 - 2014-10-03 19:38:28 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Look we all wish we could be as big and tough as you and get a model girlfriend and learn karate too....but the point is people wont have to do the freighter convoys. JFs will still work. Existing methods may no longer be sufficient, but people can solve thay problem.

So you can button up your shirt, we are all impressed by your man boo...errr pecs. Roll

Thanks. They got me my model wife. Karate helped too, of course. *zips up*

And you're right - JFs will still work. Point being that if we could take that stuff 40+ jumps into null through gates, surely you masters of the known universe have the ability to secure a couple chokepoints long enough to get your JFs through in order to make their jump routes more efficient.

I mean come on, it ain't THAT hard. I know you all are used to zero risk comfy living out there, but sheesh.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5934 - 2014-10-03 19:38:41 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
davet517 wrote:
This is your opening. Step up. Set your neighbors red. Stop paying rent. Purge that blue list.

If you can assemble even a smallish super-cap fleet, you can hold a pocket against some feudal lord coming at you with a cache of dreads that they stashed. If they move their supers at you, just turtle up, make them grind the structures, then take them back when they bounce. Or, you could hire some mercs Blink.

Most of you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Sure, if you insist on maintaining your long list of blues and paying rent, this change will just make doing that a pain in the butt. If enough of you see it as your chance to break free, it gives you a much better shot at doing it than you have now.

Yeah, you're going to have to be a little bit inventive. If you live in deep 0.0 you might have to scout some wormhole routes and take advantage of them when you get them to get stuff from empire until CCP makes it more possible to be self-sufficient. Figuring out how to survive against the odds is where the fun is. Without the risk, it just becomes a grind. Do you really need another grind in your life?

Start theory-crafting a plan for yourself, and take a shot. Or, just take up space.



What he said


So much win. But alas, that's not the REAL eve.

REAL eve means belonging to a 10k man legion of F1 monkeys.
I'm told that's where the elite and emergent gameplay exists.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5935 - 2014-10-03 19:39:28 UTC
Andski wrote:
Lord Road wrote:
it really was a nice one, however he's wrong IMO, and here's why:

Mittani cried since last year for CCP to nerf N3's wrecking ball (which CFC didn't have the skill nor discipline to copy), and CCP did. They vaporized it with their magic wand, and after patch nobody will stand in front of 35K CFC grunts pressing F1.


nah, we simply disemboweled your wrecking ball and sent you running back home with your tails between your legs


Look at how boring you are.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

twit brent
Never Not AFK
#5936 - 2014-10-03 19:40:23 UTC
I play EVE for fun, Making travel tedious and slow is not fun.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
Viral Society
#5937 - 2014-10-03 19:41:05 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:

Can't exempt BLOPS from fatigue, otherwise you'd just have Sins / Redeemers being the Pony Express for stealth bomber fleets of cap pilots to speed across the universe, arriving in the cap staging system with zero fatigue. That's no bueno.


And they wouldn't be able to do anything for 24 hours with my idea. Normal caps can't jump to covert cynos. That literally makes it better for them to use interceptors, which could also get the pilot anywhere he wants in 20-30 minutes relatively risk free.

Interceptor making my idea on the 24 hour limit kinda blah as is.

Interceptors can be smartbombed to hell by well organized fleets with solid intel, though. I suspect that Rooks and Kings among others will be plugged into all the right intel channels just waiting for the right day to ruin some bloc's response to a timer.

Which doesn't totally invalidate your point about interceptors as taxis, but nullbears be crying regardless, so meh.

One of the things I like about the multiple modifiers is that you can do things to tweak the impacts of fatigue accumulation and distance traveled. This gives CCP a lot more flexibility than arbitrary timers, gives players choices to make and tradeoffs to consider, and all the emergent gameplay that comes with it.



Oh yes, Rooks and Kings will stop ALL ceptor gangs ALL the time and NOBODY will think to send a few scouts. Oh, and nobody ever uses a bounce point when travelling through null, ever. Roll


Of course RnK won't kill them all, and of course smart pilots will get through - that's kind of the point of Eve. The smart and strong prosper, usually at the expense of the weak and foolish.

However, it's worth noting that this now gives people a way to counter the enemy that doesn't involve trying to stop a blob of supers and dreads - you find strategic chokepoints and you hold them with small forces. Even if all you do is delay your opponent, or kill 10% of his force, you're creating a strategic imbalance.

These changes are opening up strategic choices, rather than everyone automatically reaching for the N+1 supercaps solution. That's what makes them worth doing.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5938 - 2014-10-03 19:41:35 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
[Oh yes, Rooks and Kings will stop ALL ceptor gangs ALL the time and NOBODY will think to send a few scouts. Oh, and nobody ever uses a bounce point when travelling through null, ever. Roll

No, they won't stop them all. But when they do... man will it have an impact.

And yes - scouts and bounce points and all that exist and will be used. People also make mistakes, and setting up on chokepoints forces folks to go around. Controlling the interior of that movement space makes it a lot harder to circumvent, and any delay screws those rushing to help.

In short, there are ways to impact even the might interceptor speed taxi of doom. They will be used, and they will have an impact. The magnitude of that impact will depend entirely on the skill of the folks involved.

I have far more faith in the skill and ingenuity of the RnK line member than a nullbear capital line pilot.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

remus wulf
From Our Cold Dead Hands
#5939 - 2014-10-03 19:41:40 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
[quote=wohenhao]
Just shut it down and walk away - Unsubscribing is the only thing CCP understands.



Could not agree more and if enough people unsub from eve maybe just maybe CCP will consider reversing wot is sure to be a major mistake.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#5940 - 2014-10-03 19:41:48 UTC
Sup Nineteen Seventy-Nine....

Your just in time to help get to 300 pages!

Welcome back!

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf