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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5881 - 2014-10-03 18:56:05 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
gascanu wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
For combat do what you will. For logistics lets think it through a bit better.


I predict the bigger null sec alliances will move close to high sec like goons will move to ec-par in cloud ring and base out of there and then leave the deep space so small fish like me


and you will get to deep space...how?


use a scout to setup a cyno past the gate camps at regional gates...

it can and will be done all you have to do is be patient and sneaky


dude :-)))
there is only a small problem with your plan: the regional gates are >5LY
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5882 - 2014-10-03 18:56:18 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
I am totally fine with this as long as ccp puts "freeport" stations across 0.0... that way i can base out of anywhere in space as it was NPC space


I would rather reverse your idea and make jita 4 - 4 conquerable the tears would kill the forums in seconds about people loosing stuff bwahahaha



HEHEHEH... DO IT...

but yeah the idea of free port stations is they would be non conquerable... and they would be the only stations to have NPC missions... They would act like the old 10/10 complexes of old...

that way if you are an industry guy you can setup in a freeport station and undermine the local market with goods...

or you can base out of the freeport to harass the locals... plus since the freeport stations are the only mission stations in 0.0 space they will be full of people doing pve and people doing pvp in hunting them... i would make them all the gal kick out stations.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Gregor Basiyev
Titans of Doom
#5883 - 2014-10-03 18:56:50 UTC
So just to make it clear, you (CCP) want me to spent most of my game-time (which is a lot) with traveling and waiting?

A few days ago I just did logistics (shipping stuff from Jita with Freighters, the non-jumpy ones, to a highsec/lowsec system and then going on with JF and Carriers two jumps into our current alliance staging system). This took nearly the whole day.

Now with that changes to come, these two jumps would expand to 5 jumps with even a shorter route (14,457 LY; 6VDT to Vehan), with a total waiting time of about 3 hours. Three hours of sitting on station with one or more chars and nothing to do but spinning ships? What a nice game!

Maybe i could live with this whole jump fatigue stuff, if the wait-time would be lower, but these 5 LY jumps totally kills it.
How many Cynos do you expect me to have?
Do you really expect m to fly a 7bil ship with a lot of stuff in it through a gate or even several? In nullsec?
I wouldn't even do this in highsec!

Think about it.
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#5884 - 2014-10-03 18:56:57 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:

I don't see any simple way to give a BLOPs fatigue immunity AND keep it from being the new shuttle to get cap pilots across the map. The cost of a BLOPs hull isn't really that much for the larger groups and fatigue immunity would far outweigh the isk. So I agree, but there are complications.


Just make anyone whos used a black ops bridge/jump unable to make a regular bridge/jump during a given 24 hour period.

This way even if you can get back to your capitals, you're not jumping anywhere with them.



There is already a new shuttle, and it's both interdiction nullified and untouchable on gates due to being able enter warp under two seconds with a travel fit. It's also the fastest ship in terms of warp speed in EVE, with the exception of Leopard, the special edition Minmatar shuttle.

With this new shuttle, it only takes around 25 minutes to make a round trip around the entire outlying borderline of New Eden, without taking any Jump Bridges or Titans, while only taking gates.

It's called an interceptor.

So tell us more about how CCP will be able to limit pilot travel by limiting medical clones to the stations you are in, friends!


This is an excellent point Alp ^^^

Given the amount of time an interceptor takes to get from point A to point B is the capital pilot taxi a realistic concern? It would take me about 20 minutes to move a fleet a few bridges anyways between pilot derping, re-fueling the BLOPS BS, cap recharging for jumps, etc.

Every day I'm wafflin!
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5885 - 2014-10-03 18:57:11 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Aliza Cosma Chupinskowa wrote:

Fix our game on the way that promotes and generate teamplay and
involved more players to make a goal (that means in this case a long jump route).
CCP think at least once about, it is not always the easiest way for you, that is the best for your customers, whose money you want to have.
We want play, forming teams and fleets with much different roles inside, complexity and we want use our brain (from time to time) not simply reduction of jumprange with a stupid timer... risk vs reward... all i see is the easiest way for ccp and less fun for us.


Teamplay, escort a freighter through null. Done. Risk vs reward, done.

They need to remove jumps altogether. Then you'll really have teamwork.


There is no teamwork without a team. Small entities won't be able to absolutely secure logistical lines to be able to fly multi billion freighters through. Large entities will be able to, since they have vast numbers.

Why are you insisting on not seeing that your romantic, adorable fantasies of freighters taking gates in null to empire is never going to happen?

Do you really think anybody would be willing to risk BILLIONS in a freighter without absolutely knowing that the route they intend to take through null is secure without any doubt?

Short of absolute certainty, these freighters will not be taking gates from null to empire any time soon.

"...robust economies require institutions that keep the means of production and transportation secure. CCP did not provide those institutions to nullsec, so the players have evolved them over time. Despite the insecure nature of nullsec, a player can move with relative safety within the boundaries of space with which his alliance has a non-aggression pact. Dangers are there, but the coalition works together to minimize them. This makes some nullsec coalitions a good place to do business. In fact an ongoing concern with lowsec is the tendency of non-PvP players to leap over lowsec, where space is nominally less dangerous but harder to control, directly to nullsec.

Take away the ability of nullsec players to provide those institutions and the producers and traders will leave nullsec for places where they can ply their trades. This is what happens when businesses can no longer operate in safety. Some brave souls will remain as high risk can result in high profits, however the local economies will become largely non-functional."
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#5886 - 2014-10-03 18:58:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Skydell wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Aliza Cosma Chupinskowa wrote:

Fix our game on the way that promotes and generate teamplay and
involved more players to make a goal (that means in this case a long jump route).
CCP think at least once about, it is not always the easiest way for you, that is the best for your customers, whose money you want to have.
We want play, forming teams and fleets with much different roles inside, complexity and we want use our brain (from time to time) not simply reduction of jumprange with a stupid timer... risk vs reward... all i see is the easiest way for ccp and less fun for us.


Teamplay, escort a freighter through null. Done. Risk vs reward, done.

They need to remove jumps altogether. Then you'll really have teamwork.



I laughed when I saw 'escort a freighter'.

I've seen several escorted freighters with Outpost pods. I saw them because they were killmails. It doesn't work. This is where the flaws of this whole thing fall apart.


I guess all those successful freighter escorts everyone used to have to do before jump freighters were introduced were just everyone's collective imagination.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5887 - 2014-10-03 18:58:47 UTC
gascanu wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
gascanu wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
For combat do what you will. For logistics lets think it through a bit better.


I predict the bigger null sec alliances will move close to high sec like goons will move to ec-par in cloud ring and base out of there and then leave the deep space so small fish like me


and you will get to deep space...how?


use a scout to setup a cyno past the gate camps at regional gates...

it can and will be done all you have to do is be patient and sneaky


dude :-)))
there is only a small problem with your plan: the regional gates are >5LY



****... well happy hunting i guess... perhaps i will higher a merc corp to distract the camp so i can sneak past it...

or are there not systems that are not connected by regional gates but are in different system that are less then 5ly? ill just use those.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
flakeys
Doomheim
#5888 - 2014-10-03 19:00:05 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
flakeys wrote:
This char is from 2003 as evewho will also show or look ingame as there must be something wrong with your eyes or the charhistory through the forum.Zkillboard has most of the stats for this character as it is my main so feel free to go look there just as i did for your character , i say most as this char has had a namechange halfway so my record for the first 3 years is under a different name yet the same character as again my corphistory will show.


And yes this character currently is in an npc corp because of a few things , rl is verry busy so not much time the last 2 months to log in but mostly because my heart lies with nullsec but seeing how that is currently i rather await the new changes before i head back there.I've been in the last great war and i have enjoyed frigskirmishes in fw space more then that whole war including B-R.


I actually shouldn't even reply though as this is the third time you fail to see that a lot of people who are for this change have the same or more experience in nullsec warfare then you , and yet you just keep thinking that that is IMPOSSIBLE.Just as you assumed that someone with ann npc tag MUST be a forumalt.Your so full of prejudices it is blocking you from thinking straight.

Yet another perfect example of why my sig even though it's an old one keeps it's value.


All I got from that was blah blah blah I'm so pro your so noob and if that's the case why pad your board with RVB fleets surely a pro such as yourself has no end of experience killing people.

Wait a min maybe not I don't pad my board with RVB so I don't give two fucks about your kill board don't let the threadnaught hit you too hard when you leave.


Yup a whole whooping week in RvB must have given me 1.3 T in isk destroyed ....

If you want to talk about padding killboards then we can talk about you having less solo kills in 2 years then i did in one month this year?

Threadnaught ain't hitting me as i am having a blast here with these changes coming , but i'm starting to get concerned about your ragequit coming soon.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5889 - 2014-10-03 19:00:42 UTC
Gregor Basiyev wrote:
So just to make it clear, you (CCP) want me to spent most of my game-time (which is a lot) with traveling and waiting?

A few days ago I just did logistics (shipping stuff from Jita with Freighters, the non-jumpy ones, to a highsec/lowsec system and then going on with JF and Carriers two jumps into our current alliance staging system). This took nearly the whole day.

Now with that changes to come, these two jumps would expand to 5 jumps with even a shorter route (14,457 LY; 6VDT to Vehan), with a total waiting time of about 3 hours. Three hours of sitting on station with one or more chars and nothing to do but spinning ships? What a nice game!

Maybe i could live with this whole jump fatigue stuff, if the wait-time would be lower, but these 5 LY jumps totally kills it.
How many Cynos do you expect me to have?
Do you really expect m to fly a 7bil ship with a lot of stuff in it through a gate or even several? In nullsec?
I wouldn't even do this in highsec!

Think about it.


or just use stargates to mittigate the distance between jumps.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#5890 - 2014-10-03 19:01:08 UTC
I was born by the river in a little tent
Oh, and just like the river I've been running ever since

It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gon' come, oh yes it will

It's been too hard living, but I'm afraid to die
Cause I don't know what's up there beyond the sky

It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gon' come, oh yes it will

I go to the movie and I go down town
Somebody keep telling me don't hang around

Its been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gon' come, oh yes it will

Then I go to my brother
And I say, "Brother, help me please."
But he winds up knockin' me
Back down on my knees

There been times when I thought I couldn't last for long
But now I think I'm able to carry on

It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gon' come, oh yes it will


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Nua5klb4Os

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5891 - 2014-10-03 19:01:11 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Aliza Cosma Chupinskowa wrote:

Fix our game on the way that promotes and generate teamplay and
involved more players to make a goal (that means in this case a long jump route).
CCP think at least once about, it is not always the easiest way for you, that is the best for your customers, whose money you want to have.
We want play, forming teams and fleets with much different roles inside, complexity and we want use our brain (from time to time) not simply reduction of jumprange with a stupid timer... risk vs reward... all i see is the easiest way for ccp and less fun for us.


Teamplay, escort a freighter through null. Done. Risk vs reward, done.

They need to remove jumps altogether. Then you'll really have teamwork.



I laughed when I saw 'escort a freighter'.

I've seen several escorted freighters with Outpost pods. I saw them because they were killmails. It doesn't work. This is where the flaws of this whole thing fall apart.


I guess all those successful freighter escorts everyone used to have to do before jump freighters were introduced were everyone's imagination.



Chronologically, before Jump Freighters, people were hauling goods on industrials, stuffed into carrier hangars...
flakeys
Doomheim
#5892 - 2014-10-03 19:02:13 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Aliza Cosma Chupinskowa wrote:

Fix our game on the way that promotes and generate teamplay and
involved more players to make a goal (that means in this case a long jump route).
CCP think at least once about, it is not always the easiest way for you, that is the best for your customers, whose money you want to have.
We want play, forming teams and fleets with much different roles inside, complexity and we want use our brain (from time to time) not simply reduction of jumprange with a stupid timer... risk vs reward... all i see is the easiest way for ccp and less fun for us.


Teamplay, escort a freighter through null. Done. Risk vs reward, done.

They need to remove jumps altogether. Then you'll really have teamwork.



I laughed when I saw 'escort a freighter'.

I've seen several escorted freighters with Outpost pods. I saw them because they were killmails. It doesn't work. This is where the flaws of this whole thing fall apart.


I guess all those successful freighter escorts everyone used to have to do before jump freighters were introduced were just everyone's collective imagination.



Appearantly we're too old in eve to play on ''hardmode'' doc ....

/me coughs

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5893 - 2014-10-03 19:02:59 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Aliza Cosma Chupinskowa wrote:

Fix our game on the way that promotes and generate teamplay and
involved more players to make a goal (that means in this case a long jump route).
CCP think at least once about, it is not always the easiest way for you, that is the best for your customers, whose money you want to have.
We want play, forming teams and fleets with much different roles inside, complexity and we want use our brain (from time to time) not simply reduction of jumprange with a stupid timer... risk vs reward... all i see is the easiest way for ccp and less fun for us.


Teamplay, escort a freighter through null. Done. Risk vs reward, done.

They need to remove jumps altogether. Then you'll really have teamwork.



I laughed when I saw 'escort a freighter'.

I've seen several escorted freighters with Outpost pods. I saw them because they were killmails. It doesn't work. This is where the flaws of this whole thing fall apart.


I guess all those successful freighter escorts everyone used to have to do before jump freighters were introduced were everyone's imagination.



I have been one of those freighter pilots from way way back - Charon (still have it too!) It is possible to scout and/or even fleet escort a freighter.

BUT.... I don't like the whole, now you see it now you don't space magiks - changes are too much and go too far too quickly.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5894 - 2014-10-03 19:03:22 UTC
Jethro Winchester wrote:

You still really don't understand the ramifications of these changes on the little guy.

To quote Rorschach. "I'm not locked in here with you, you're all locked in here with me."

Enjoy the never-ending gatecamps Mr.Galmil. Snuff can't save you anymore. ;)

I think I do understand the ramifications on the little guy, since we're making changes to adapt to them now. And no, I doubt we'll see never ending gatecamps.

Besides, Snuff Box wouldn't save us after all the damage we've been doing to their static assets since CalMil hasn't been up to... snuff... lately.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#5895 - 2014-10-03 19:03:25 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:

Here's the problem I see though. BLOPs have the ability to become the taxi for fleets of pilots to zip across new eden and nullify the fatigue issue. There would have to be a mechanism that prevents one of the big power blocks from just moving around eve in BLOPs to their cache of boringmobiles that have been pre staged.

That's the issue with giving JFs longer range, too.

Anything with offensive capability needs to have a Jump Fatigue modifier higher than the 0.1 that JFs currently have.

IMO, this includes Rorquals, since there's far too many folks out there gaming out Battle Rorq fits that throw 1k dps, have 2.2k spider tank and are cap stable. Basically more expensive versions of existing carriers, that will be far more mobile than any other combat capital post-nerf. Increasing their fatigue modifier to something like .25-.4 would probably allow them to continue to be solid support platforms with more mobility than carriers, while not becoming combat replacements in the same way.

BLOPS need a fatigue modifier, that's clear. Their use doesn't have the same Apex Force Unstoppable Blob issues that Supercaps and Titans (or capital blobs in general) have. Primarily because of the lack of effective logistics support. They are still jump capable combat boats though, and their increased range is definitely an advantage in this New Order. They can outpace any other teleportation based pursuer in the game under the new rules.

Something like a 0.4-0.7ish modifier would probably work? That would let them drop in, gank stuff, extract without having to wait obscene amounts of time. That or jump in, gank something, roam for a bit, gank something else, hop over the pursuers, gank something else, jump over there, gank something, then extract.

I love the idea of BLOPS forces being the true harrassment tools they should have been all along, until LOLCapsOnline and jump bridge networks made countering them too easy.


Wait...let me see if I got this straight....people are going to use the BLOPs to move their capital pilots to their cache thus circumventing fatigue...?

Well...okay I guess, but considering that people can use things like ceptors and strategically placed jump clones I'm not sure that is really that big a problem. Especially for defensive purposes.

As for the notion of using JFs to do this that strikes me as even more ludicrous. Using a 6 billion ship so one can get to a cache of ships each one worth 2-3 billion? Yeah, right.
Lord Road
People's Democratic Republic of Gatecamping
Muh Zkill...
#5896 - 2014-10-03 19:03:36 UTC
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
To all the goons and CFC still crying over this:

CCP is not trying to ruin the game, they are trying to ruin your game.


I just spit pepsi all over my screen.

Well played, Doc.


it really was a nice one, however he's wrong IMO, and here's why:

Mittani cried since last year for CCP to nerf N3's wrecking ball (which CFC didn't have the skill nor discipline to copy), and CCP did. They vaporized it with their magic wand, and after patch nobody will stand in front of 35K CFC grunts pressing F1.
Jethro Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5897 - 2014-10-03 19:04:31 UTC
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
To all the goons and CFC still crying over this:

CCP is not trying to ruin the game, they are trying to ruin your game.


I just spit pepsi all over my screen.

Well played, Doc.


They may intend to ruin the game for Goons. But in reality they will be one of the least affected groups.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#5898 - 2014-10-03 19:05:16 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Aliza Cosma Chupinskowa wrote:

Fix our game on the way that promotes and generate teamplay and
involved more players to make a goal (that means in this case a long jump route).
CCP think at least once about, it is not always the easiest way for you, that is the best for your customers, whose money you want to have.
We want play, forming teams and fleets with much different roles inside, complexity and we want use our brain (from time to time) not simply reduction of jumprange with a stupid timer... risk vs reward... all i see is the easiest way for ccp and less fun for us.


Teamplay, escort a freighter through null. Done. Risk vs reward, done.

They need to remove jumps altogether. Then you'll really have teamwork.



I laughed when I saw 'escort a freighter'.

I've seen several escorted freighters with Outpost pods. I saw them because they were killmails. It doesn't work. This is where the flaws of this whole thing fall apart.


I guess all those successful freighter escorts everyone used to have to do before jump freighters were introduced were everyone's imagination.



Chronologically, before Jump Freighters, people were hauling goods on industrials, stuffed into carrier hangars...


Indeed, we did that as well for smaller loads.




☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
JohnPaulJones
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5899 - 2014-10-03 19:05:28 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Skydell wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
For combat do what you will. For logistics lets think it through a bit better.


I predict the bigger null sec alliances will move close to high sec like goons will move to ec-par in cloud ring and base out of there and then leave the deep space so small fish like me


Considering the nature of EVE gates and the whole 'you must pay a toll' concept of getting from deep Null to High Sec, this is a reasonable conclusion. I would predict another scenario. HQ on the High Sec rim, Renters on the crusty outside of the blue donut.


I am totally fine with this as long as ccp puts "freeport" stations across 0.0... that way i can base out of anywhere in space as it was NPC space


I would rather reverse your idea and make jita 4 - 4 conquerable the tears would kill the forums in seconds about people loosing stuff bwahahaha


Who's to say the idea isn't to one day make all space conquerable and CONCORD work contract under our control? Outrageous for sure but long term...meh anything is possible. Seeing as how I've been living under a rock for a few years where exactly will stargates come to play? Replace the NPC gates? Wormhole? Whats the deal?
flakeys
Doomheim
#5900 - 2014-10-03 19:05:29 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
I was born by the river in a little tent
Oh, and just like the river I've been running ever since

It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gon' come, oh yes it will

It's been too hard living, but I'm afraid to die
Cause I don't know what's up there beyond the sky

It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gon' come, oh yes it will

I go to the movie and I go down town
Somebody keep telling me don't hang around

Its been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gon' come, oh yes it will

Then I go to my brother
And I say, "Brother, help me please."
But he winds up knockin' me
Back down on my knees

There been times when I thought I couldn't last for long
But now I think I'm able to carry on

It's been a long, a long time coming
But I know a change gon' come, oh yes it will


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Nua5klb4Os



Besides it being an awsome song , i think there also wouldn't be a more appropriate one right nowBlink .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.