These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#5801 - 2014-10-03 18:08:57 UTC
Toriessian wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:

We wake up the day after tomorrow. That's the moral of the story. We wake up. It's not over. The world doesn't end. We just keep going w/out football. A lot of folks really care about and love football, but we can all live without it.

It's the same w/ null power blocks. At the end of the day we don't need them to play eve. If they all instantly vanish there is still a good (many would argue better) game left behind.


My small alliance's operations are effected severely by this change. We're going to have to give up moons (we do have a few moons of lesser value in NPC space) since our JF pilots are going to have a tough time reaching them. Our capitals can't jump like they used to. We're a small alliance this isn't the end of our world. We can adapt to this.

The problem is there are aspects to this change that simply aren't thought through and those are what is hurting my alliance the worst. We're a Black Ops based Alliance. We use Black Ops for both PvE (Prospects are amazing null sec gas miners) and PvP. Personally I've trained 8 characters across 4 accounts to light Covert Cynos. We have max skill black ops bridging characters. Other players have altered training paths to do black ops work and fly recons and light covert cynos themselves.

Its taken a significant amount of time for our small alliance to get to this point, and now we're essentially being told that you should do something else. We're not N3 or the CFC or even the CVA. We don't have the numbers to adapt on a dime.

If these changes stay as is for Black Ops, the fleet can only bridge out and back once with 0 fatigue before delays. I can't tell if anyone in the fleet has more than 0 fatigue to even try to manage it as the FC. This change removes our entire play style. It'd be like CODE losing HS ganking or Marmite finding out they can only wardec one alliance at a time for us. My alliance has to completely re-specialize and at this point personally I'm not certain I'm willing to.

Tears or not, with no changes what is the role of the black ops BS and black ops fleet ships (bombers/recons) after this change? Are we getting SP reimbursement for Cyno 5? Jump Portal Operation on non titan trained characters? Are black ops going to get other unique abilities to make up for the nerf, or are we getting a tank upgrade so they can stand toe to toe with T1 line battleships? This is what I mean about changes not being thought through. Theres no role for an entire class of ships now.

With changes how many bridges/jumps can I expect to make in a day? a week? I'm not against stricter planning on ops but right now its more planning my Black OP (singular) for the week/month.


Totally agree. Another guy mentioned give black ops a free pass on this one. I agreed with him and you. Black ops are PVP ships and should not be limited. A lot of folks derive a lot of PVP fun from them. I'm hoping black ops are not included in this change.

Here's the problem I see though. BLOPs have the ability to become the taxi for fleets of pilots to zip across new eden and nullify the fatigue issue. There would have to be a mechanism that prevents one of the big power blocks from just moving around eve in BLOPs to their cache of boringmobiles that have been pre staged.

I don't see any simple way to give a BLOPs fatigue immunity AND keep it from being the new shuttle to get cap pilots across the map. The cost of a BLOPs hull isn't really that much for the larger groups and fatigue immunity would far outweigh the isk. So I agree, but there are complications.
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#5802 - 2014-10-03 18:08:59 UTC
flakeys wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
flakeys wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
I have a solution:

1. Remove concord and every other NPC combatant
2. Remove sec status of systems
3. evenly distribute resources like moon goo, ore, ice and so on
4. Make every system the same true sec
5. remove WH's
6. profit

ADAPT OR DIE........................



Ow i am sure you won't be playing the game with such changes , as you are allready freaking out like a little kid over one change .


I would play it more as you will ALL be valid targets with no NPC super weapon to protect you or hide down your little rabbit holes.



Yup because everyone who agrees with this change MUST be an empire dweller.I outdo you in : amount of isk killed, amount of ships killed and especially more important solokills and nope they where not in high-sec.

But please keep on being so naive as to think the only ones who can agree with this change are people who spend their time mining veldspar in empire , you're not the only naysayer making that assumption.


Congratulation now factor in the at least 3 years of PURE triage logistical game play that is with logistic ships you know them without guns, factor in the fact that these pixles have been failing to keep my attention for the past year at the lease.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5803 - 2014-10-03 18:09:20 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
The major powers in this game have the manpower and capability to get around these changes to jump drive travel so the ONLY people CCP is hurting are the smaller fish at the bottom of the food chain.


right... and how many alts and archons do you think you will need to have the same coverage as today?

keep in mind that ccp said they are going to do a balance of the dominion sov mechanics before years end so i highly down CFC or PL or NC. will be able to hold on to the renter space by 2015

I've been clamoring for CCP to unfuck their sov system for more than 3 years, and I have been pretty vocal about it in all that time (granted, mainly on kugu, but still). It literally can't come soon enough.

So what if we were to lose some space over it, as long as it changes the wars from 1 huge fight pr war to multiple small fights pr day.


agreed and supported it shall be so awesome

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5804 - 2014-10-03 18:11:40 UTC

for all those that still think there is some hope this changes won't go live, allow me to quote myself

gascanu wrote:
Quote:
The harder we can make logistics, the better for the game viewed as an abstract system. It would be much better for the game if we got rid of freighters, but we have to balance what is good for the game at a higher systemic level with making the player's lives a living hell. Forcing people to do convoys with lots of industrials would, from a higher level systemic view, be awesome. But for the individual players, it would suck balls.

--CCP Greyscale - CSM Minutes, December 2010


HALP!
Emrys Alf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5805 - 2014-10-03 18:11:43 UTC
This is a very sad time indeed.

Many folks are hurt, concerned and lost by this announcement. Changing the jump mechanics has huge ramifications and it has been done all so casually as if the change would be just a minor inconvenience. What is the point of the game when your long term strategy is nerfed by “management” on a whim.

Jumping ships is a huge deal. Took months to plan, train, set up and buy/build. Now it is pretty much an expensive hanger ornament. My heart goes out to all those people, you have been robbed of your time, your dedication and isk. Extreme training but who cares about your tears? It is in the name of looking after the few that you will be limited.

Quote:
We expect the impact of these changes to be emergent, and as a consequence are unpredictable and will take a while to develop on TQ.


Seems from the above statement this is all a "lets see what happens when we pull this"....

Core mechanics are the backbone to how we plan and evolve. To change these mechanics in such an offhand way effecting the thousands of people who were enjoying the game, is just short sighted and sets the president that change will be always and come from the strangest direction with out any real thought. Don’t bother planning/training for anything it will change.

One of the CCP management in the last keynote stated that all would be destroyable. So who knows if that gate will be there. We going to see tolls on the gates? Maybe the destruction of the industry system all together so that we are forced to buy from NPCs so CCP earnings go up? Who knows. Who can trust anything anymore?

The removing of the death clone made sense. Was wrong that one could create a clone where you had never been and then death your way there. But hold the phone they put it back with limits in next to no time.. I wonder which connected person got that change because it did not represent the will of the players in this forum or elsewhere. That was one part all seemed to understand and accept.

So CCP is listening to someone, just not us.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5806 - 2014-10-03 18:12:04 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Resgo wrote:
Please consider letting carriers and dreadnoughts use the high sec gates. Perhaps with certain module restrictions while they are in high sec such as preventing siege and triage modules from functioning and possibly preventing the launching of fighters. Otherwise purchasing capitals is going to become a very difficult and painful process when you have to worry about how you can get them back anywhere near friendly space. High sec becomes a complete barrier in places.


move the manufacturing of carriers to npc 0.0 near your space... or risk it and make them at home...

if you want to cheap out and buy them in low sec then you should have to take the risk to get them home


Alternately, they can just wait, since ccp's verbiage on capitals still not using highsec gates was 'yet'.



tbh i was hopping that only dreads would be able to go in high sec and thats just for cleaning up posses and such for war decs.

as dreads are fairly balanced against sub caps but carriers are not at all.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5807 - 2014-10-03 18:12:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Veskrashen
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Ban JF from hauling ships and there's no need to kill the eve economy by nerfing the trade ships into oblivion.

It's not the ship the JF is hauling, it's the pilot.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#5808 - 2014-10-03 18:12:37 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:


No hat required you can draw a direct correlation between R&K videos and " new features ".



And because not everyone is Space Awesome RnK (R&K) developed the 'Pipebomb' tactic.

Reference the link if you have know ******* idea what we're talking about. Cause it's like a thing... rly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNUu75fH8Uc


I got the honour to say " I've been there " not in that video ( although I would have to query how old some of the footage is ) and been involved in some quite interesting and news worth stuff.

Now I guess videos are the best way to remember eve when it was good instead of meh...

Return to topic obey

Yes sir mr ISD sir.

So if we are getting low sec DD's how about the use of bombs you know the stealth bomber kind or is that more OP than titans using gates and DD in low sec ?????????????

The final solution



Much OP ... Bombs will totally imbalance the game you see?

You see right?

No??!! Well GTFO we "didn't want your subscription anyway."


Runs away sobbing back to his archon ready to get what use he can out of it before it goes the way of another one time in a million toy.

WWAAAHHHHHHH
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#5809 - 2014-10-03 18:12:40 UTC
Hold on guys i have over 20 pages of tears whining and ragequit to read still before i can post something contructives. So everyone stop posting until i read it all


k thx :D

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5810 - 2014-10-03 18:14:18 UTC
Selfdestructing your pod with an alpha clone should reset your timer.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5811 - 2014-10-03 18:14:29 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Is a JF a strategic asset? Probably not.
Are stealth bombers strategic assets? No.

Putting JF's on fatigue schedule likely has to do with other in-game objectives.

Limiting JF / Rorqual range is to keep them from being used as battle taxis. In short, if they had longer range, they could be used to haul butt across the map via jump drive, then hop into waiting capitals to dunk someone with minimal fatigue. Keeping the range short makes that less practical, which makes using subcaps (or wormholes) to traverse long distances rapidly the optimal method. Since subcaps can be interdicted and delayed in a variety of ways, this adds to the game.
Ban JF from hauling ships and there's no need to kill the eve economy by nerfing the trade ships into oblivion.


Sorry bud this will not work. Most the markets you buy from are from players that haul the smaller ships around in JF. These are essential if you expect to fly tech 2 ships around the New Eden. JF are crucial to providing goods that EVERYONE, big and small, enjoy. Spend some time doing it and you realize how much the game relies on logistics.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#5812 - 2014-10-03 18:15:09 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Higgs Foton wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
The major powers in this game have the manpower and capability to get around these changes to jump drive travel so the ONLY people CCP is hurting are the smaller fish at the bottom of the food chain.


right... and how many alts and archons do you think you will need to have the same coverage as today?

keep in mind that ccp said they are going to do a balance of the dominion sov mechanics before years end so i highly down CFC or PL or NC. will be able to hold on to the renter space by 2015


"Didn't want that renterspace anyway"

But i have faith that the secret CSM cabal that is THE SPACE ILLUMINATI will make the new sov system work for the most glorious CFC. This change makes the west of the map a near impenatrable fortress, so every other change will undoubtly favor the heroic forces of the CFC and will shine on the power and might of the beloved leader.

But you can fight for a isolated place in the wilderness of the south and east, far away from everything, setting up your own meager economy much like an isolated island state in the pacific while we of the united space communist might of the CFC keep swimming in ISK. And we wish you good luck with it, because we love everybody in EVE! Twisted

Holy cow! Almost to 300 pages! :)



THIS ^^^ Is the future. Congratulations Yar! Captain Neckbeard and fanboi's welcome to your Brave New World!

(CFC is gonna get a lot more applicants soon I think?)


Oh believe you me we will definitely be applying to CFC. In the flavours of Cal Nav Antimatter I imagine.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5813 - 2014-10-03 18:15:16 UTC
Necro Cat wrote:
Hello,
Just my two cents

I've been in the game since 2008, I flew small ships, cruisers and battlecruisers and enjoyed them much, I have spent my career mostly in null and low, been a pirate, now I've found a really good capital fielding alliance. They took me in for training and...

....I am now a carrier/ dreadnaught/ freighter pilot, have been for 3 years (and I'm training for a Super Carrier)

Since then, I have flown alongside a few other capitals in sooooo much combat, it was glorious, it was fun, exciting, really exciting, but...... it was easier than I had thought. Really, really easy.

My capital fleet was crushing absolutely everyone in its path, we hotdropped on everyone we could with impunity, literally everything; one time we even went to low-sec and hotdropped 17 dreadnaughts and 12 carriers on a mining frigate, yes a mining frigate, but that's a tale for another thread. Where we went, it didn't take too long to setup a hotdrop either, there were plenty of targets to drop on, and they wouldn't be able to do anything!.

Over time, I was slowly changing my mind, it was less and less fun to knock down on the home space of the little guys with my capital fleet, taking over their sovereignty, their stations, their space business all the while they couldn't do anything, but look on as their POS's were sacked and the assets in them were seized. It paid, my god did it pay, but it was no longer fun.
What was fun was when they would fight or at least bring a fight.

So today, reading through all this I realized, thinking back on my combat experiences, records and victories in nullsec/lowsec, this is what EvE needs, its something it needs rather desperately; a challenge, a new way of thinking for capital ships, no one should have it easy as I did in my early capital days, its just not right, its not fun for either side of the fight, I know this now, it is why Eve is dying :( so you must implement this.

This really is the step in the right way and does not need any rethinking, so please implement as soon as possible CCP Greyscale, I fully endorse this update!



PS Much Love Greyscale,

From An Alt xx

+1. This Cat gets it.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5814 - 2014-10-03 18:15:40 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Hold on guys i have over 20 pages of tears whining and ragequit to read still before i can post something contructives. So everyone stop posting until i read it all


k thx :D


Then quit posting unconstructive nonsense like this right ? Your power of reasoning has humbled me.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5815 - 2014-10-03 18:16:35 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:


No hat required you can draw a direct correlation between R&K videos and " new features ".



And because not everyone is Space Awesome RnK (R&K) developed the 'Pipebomb' tactic.

Reference the link if you have know ******* idea what we're talking about. Cause it's like a thing... rly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNUu75fH8Uc


I got the honour to say " I've been there " not in that video ( although I would have to query how old some of the footage is ) and been involved in some quite interesting and news worth stuff.

Now I guess videos are the best way to remember eve when it was good instead of meh...

Return to topic obey

Yes sir mr ISD sir.

So if we are getting low sec DD's how about the use of bombs you know the stealth bomber kind or is that more OP than titans using gates and DD in low sec ?????????????

The final solution



Much OP ... Bombs will totally imbalance the game you see?

You see right?

No??!! Well GTFO we "didn't want your subscription anyway."


Runs away sobbing back to his archon ready to get what use he can out of it before it goes the way of another one time in a million toy.

WWAAAHHHHHHH



Ah @#$@.... don't cry... really I was just upset....

I didn't mean it... I really do like your subscription... in fact here I'll make some wonderful theory crafting changes that will make you increase your subscriptions.

And! I'll happily accept them all!!!

Now... who needs a hug?! Hmmmm????

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5816 - 2014-10-03 18:17:42 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:

right... and how many alts and archons do you think you will need to have the same coverage as today?

keep in mind that ccp said they are going to do a balance of the dominion sov mechanics before years end so i highly down CFC or PL or NC. will be able to hold on to the renter space by 2015


Actually, they said the sov changes would be coming next year (the implication was early next year, but not before end-of-year).

Also, the answer to your question is: 3-4 jump clones, w/an archon at each cache site.



from the dev blog
Quote:
•Hitpoints and resistances on various sovereignty-related structures will be revisited, to balance out the reduced ability to use Supercarriers against them. Stay tuned for a follow-up blog on this.


and you guys are going to go to all that trouble and confusion just so you dont have to take a single star gate... you do know there are many places where taking that gate will be much faster... and also with fatigue shouldnt the jump drive be used as gtfo or a quick enterence to the system from an adjacent system to avoid long LY travel?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Xutel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5817 - 2014-10-03 18:18:25 UTC
Just as I thought I was getting back into Eve, POW!

My response to this is: This is a terrible idea, I will quite happily start PLEXing & ganking new members for the rest of my Eve days if this is implemented.

Bye bye my post in this swimming pool of negative responses to this.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5818 - 2014-10-03 18:19:50 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Higgs Foton wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
The major powers in this game have the manpower and capability to get around these changes to jump drive travel so the ONLY people CCP is hurting are the smaller fish at the bottom of the food chain.


right... and how many alts and archons do you think you will need to have the same coverage as today?

keep in mind that ccp said they are going to do a balance of the dominion sov mechanics before years end so i highly down CFC or PL or NC. will be able to hold on to the renter space by 2015


"Didn't want that renterspace anyway"

But i have faith that the secret CSM cabal that is THE SPACE ILLUMINATI will make the new sov system work for the most glorious CFC. This change makes the west of the map a near impenatrable fortress, so every other change will undoubtly favor the heroic forces of the CFC and will shine on the power and might of the beloved leader.

But you can fight for a isolated place in the wilderness of the south and east, far away from everything, setting up your own meager economy much like an isolated island state in the pacific while we of the united space communist might of the CFC keep swimming in ISK. And we wish you good luck with it, because we love everybody in EVE! Twisted

Holy cow! Almost to 300 pages! :)



THIS ^^^ Is the future. Congratulations Yar! Captain Neckbeard and fanboi's welcome to your Brave New World!

(CFC is gonna get a lot more applicants soon I think?)


Oh believe you me we will definitely be applying to CFC. In the flavours of Cal Nav Antimatter I imagine.


Nice! Thats a HAWT response...

Ya gonna do it with Ishtars? Cause I dig your Ishtar doctrine srsly.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#5819 - 2014-10-03 18:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: smokeydapot
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
Runs away sobbing back to his archon ready to get what use he can out of it before it goes the way of another one time in a million toy.

WWAAAHHHHHHH



Ah @#$@.... don't cry... really I was just upset....

I didn't mean it... I really do like your subscription... in fact here I'll make some wonderful theory crafting changes that will make you increase your subscriptions.

And! I'll happily accept them all!!!

Now... who needs a hug?! Hmmmm????


Really I can have as many pointless accounts as I want and pay you for the privilege of WIS ( waiting in station ).

Awwhh thanks.

*GROUP HUG*
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5820 - 2014-10-03 18:21:45 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Higgs Foton wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
The major powers in this game have the manpower and capability to get around these changes to jump drive travel so the ONLY people CCP is hurting are the smaller fish at the bottom of the food chain.


right... and how many alts and archons do you think you will need to have the same coverage as today?

keep in mind that ccp said they are going to do a balance of the dominion sov mechanics before years end so i highly down CFC or PL or NC. will be able to hold on to the renter space by 2015


"Didn't want that renterspace anyway"

But i have faith that the secret CSM cabal that is THE SPACE ILLUMINATI will make the new sov system work for the most glorious CFC. This change makes the west of the map a near impenatrable fortress, so every other change will undoubtly favor the heroic forces of the CFC and will shine on the power and might of the beloved leader.

But you can fight for a isolated place in the wilderness of the south and east, far away from everything, setting up your own meager economy much like an isolated island state in the pacific while we of the united space communist might of the CFC keep swimming in ISK. And we wish you good luck with it, because we love everybody in EVE! Twisted

Holy cow! Almost to 300 pages! :)



THIS ^^^ Is the future. Congratulations Yar! Captain Neckbeard and fanboi's welcome to your Brave New World!

(CFC is gonna get a lot more applicants soon I think?)


Oh believe you me we will definitely be applying to CFC. In the flavours of Cal Nav Antimatter I imagine.


heck i dont care if you loose the renter space and move to your home regions... I hope that ccp adds "freeport" npc stations to all 0.0 regions so I can base out of them and hunt your mission runners and annom guys.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.