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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5781 - 2014-10-03 17:52:15 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Is a JF a strategic asset? Probably not.
Are stealth bombers strategic assets? No.

Putting JF's on fatigue schedule likely has to do with other in-game objectives.

Limiting JF / Rorqual range is to keep them from being used as battle taxis. In short, if they had longer range, they could be used to haul butt across the map via jump drive, then hop into waiting capitals to dunk someone with minimal fatigue. Keeping the range short makes that less practical, which makes using subcaps (or wormholes) to traverse long distances rapidly the optimal method. Since subcaps can be interdicted and delayed in a variety of ways, this adds to the game.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Resgo
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5782 - 2014-10-03 17:52:58 UTC
Please consider letting carriers and dreadnoughts use the high sec gates. Perhaps with certain module restrictions while they are in high sec such as preventing siege and triage modules from functioning and possibly preventing the launching of fighters. Otherwise purchasing capitals is going to become a very difficult and painful process when you have to worry about how you can get them back anywhere near friendly space. High sec becomes a complete barrier in places.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5783 - 2014-10-03 17:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
smokeydapot wrote:


No hat required you can draw a direct correlation between R&K videos and " new features ".



And because not everyone is Space Awesome RnK (R&K) developed the 'Pipebomb' tactic.

Reference the link if you have know ******* idea what we're talking about. Cause it's like a thing... rly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNUu75fH8Uc

Plus Bad Pirates (as in the awesome ones) BS gate smartbomb all the time.... so totally totally expected to see Titan's blob smartbombing low sec entry gate and DD'ing anything else alive.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5784 - 2014-10-03 17:56:55 UTC
has anyone seen dinsdale? I figured he would be eating this **** up
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5785 - 2014-10-03 17:57:54 UTC
One thing i would like to see for Titan jump portals is to move from "push" to "pull" meaning that when a Titan Jumps it creates a Worm hole which can be accessed by any ship... fleet or non fleet and jump threw as long as there is enough mass for the worm hole...

This is good because it wont put any jump fatigue on the fleet but it will on the Titan.

That way you wont end up with half the fleet unable to jump cuss they have fatigue... and it increases the risk of using a Titan Bridge in the first place as that titan might not be able to jump out of that system for a few hoursTwisted

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5786 - 2014-10-03 17:58:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhul Chembull
Resgo wrote:
Please consider letting carriers and dreadnoughts use the high sec gates. Perhaps with certain module restrictions while they are in high sec such as preventing siege and triage modules from functioning and possibly preventing the launching of fighters. Otherwise purchasing capitals is going to become a very difficult and painful process when you have to worry about how you can get them back anywhere near friendly space. High sec becomes a complete barrier in places.



Again,

Listen your experienced players. This is a deal breaker when it comes to logistics. I still think it is wrong to try to undermine everything the large alliances have made, it is suppose to be an open game after all. This has to be the ugliest purposed mechanic ever.

I have already given some viable solutions. Just let these alliances peter out like they normally do or begin to fight with each other, it is inevitable. Idea
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#5787 - 2014-10-03 17:58:35 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
The major powers in this game have the manpower and capability to get around these changes to jump drive travel so the ONLY people CCP is hurting are the smaller fish at the bottom of the food chain.


right... and how many alts and archons do you think you will need to have the same coverage as today?

keep in mind that ccp said they are going to do a balance of the dominion sov mechanics before years end so i highly down CFC or PL or NC. will be able to hold on to the renter space by 2015


"Didn't want that renterspace anyway"

But i have faith that the secret CSM cabal that is THE SPACE ILLUMINATI will make the new sov system work for the most glorious CFC. This change makes the west of the map a near impenatrable fortress, so every other change will undoubtly favor the heroic forces of the CFC and will shine on the power and might of the beloved leader.

But you can fight for a isolated place in the wilderness of the south and east, far away from everything, setting up your own meager economy much like an isolated island state in the pacific while we of the united space communist might of the CFC keep swimming in ISK. And we wish you good luck with it, because we love everybody in EVE! Twisted

Holy cow! Almost to 300 pages! :)
flakeys
Doomheim
#5788 - 2014-10-03 17:58:45 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
smokeydapot wrote:
flakeys wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
I have a solution:

1. Remove concord and every other NPC combatant
2. Remove sec status of systems
3. evenly distribute resources like moon goo, ore, ice and so on
4. Make every system the same true sec
5. remove WH's
6. profit

ADAPT OR DIE........................



Ow i am sure you won't be playing the game with such changes , as you are allready freaking out like a little kid over one change .


I would play it more as you will ALL be valid targets with no NPC super weapon to protect you or hide down your little rabbit holes.



Yup because everyone who agrees with this change MUST be an empire dweller.I outdo you in : amount of isk killed, amount of ships killed and especially more important solokills and nope they where not in high-sec.

But please keep on being so naive as to think the only ones who can agree with this change are people who spend their time mining veldspar in empire , you're not the only naysayer making that assumption.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

flakeys
Doomheim
#5789 - 2014-10-03 18:02:40 UTC
davet517 wrote:
I literally bought a Titan the day before this was announced. I have black-ops trained to 5 and love flying it. I own a jump freighter and use it quite a bit. I'm not raging about these changes.

I see what they are trying to do, and I like what they are trying to do. I lived in the deep south before titans, before caps, when logistics were hard and required many jumps. You learned to build your own stuff, and when we had to do the 30+ jumps to Jita, it was a BFD, and only done when we really really had to have something that we couldn't build ourselves. Some people specialized in logistics because it was hard and dangerous and they were proud of being good at it.

Our corp at the time had a standing rule for newbies that if you couldn't get yourself to our home system, you weren't ready to join yet. Most folks spent their first months in empire, gaining skills and learning to play before even trying.

We need to get back to an eve were most fights are local, and fought and decided by and between local entities without the loser being able to appeal for immediate aid from half of Eve.

These changes are intended to go in that direction. By themselves, though, they're only changes to mechanics. What will actually have to change is player behavior. Will scrappy little guys spring up all over the map, set their neighbors red, refuse to pay rent, and start tearing away at the borders of the coalitions? If they do, the coalitions won't survive. They won't be able to project power everywhere at once.

If the players are really determined to maintain the current sea of blue standings, and hold the coalitions together, and pay tribute to their feudal lords for permission to exist, they'll figure out a way to do that. No change in mechanics will change that. Changes in mechanics can only make things possible, not mandatory.

CCP just made some stuff possible. Now its up to us.




Indeed , it will need more changes as this one change on it's own is meaningless but at least it is a start.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#5790 - 2014-10-03 18:03:21 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:


No hat required you can draw a direct correlation between R&K videos and " new features ".



And because not everyone is Space Awesome RnK (R&K) developed the 'Pipebomb' tactic.

Reference the link if you have know ******* idea what we're talking about. Cause it's like a thing... rly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNUu75fH8Uc


I got the honour to say " I've been there " not in that video ( although I would have to query how old some of the footage is ) and been involved in some quite interesting and news worth stuff.

Now I guess videos are the best way to remember eve when it was good instead of meh...

Return to topic obey

Yes sir mr ISD sir.

So if we are getting low sec DD's how about the use of bombs you know the stealth bomber kind or is that more OP than titans using gates and DD in low sec ?????????????

The final solution
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5791 - 2014-10-03 18:03:51 UTC
Higgs Foton wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
The major powers in this game have the manpower and capability to get around these changes to jump drive travel so the ONLY people CCP is hurting are the smaller fish at the bottom of the food chain.


right... and how many alts and archons do you think you will need to have the same coverage as today?

keep in mind that ccp said they are going to do a balance of the dominion sov mechanics before years end so i highly down CFC or PL or NC. will be able to hold on to the renter space by 2015


"Didn't want that renterspace anyway"

But i have faith that the secret CSM cabal that is THE SPACE ILLUMINATI will make the new sov system work for the most glorious CFC. This change makes the west of the map a near impenatrable fortress, so every other change will undoubtly favor the heroic forces of the CFC and will shine on the power and might of the beloved leader.

But you can fight for a isolated place in the wilderness of the south and east, far away from everything, setting up your own meager economy much like an isolated island state in the pacific while we of the united space communist might of the CFC keep swimming in ISK. And we wish you good luck with it, because we love everybody in EVE! Twisted

Holy cow! Almost to 300 pages! :)



THIS ^^^ Is the future. Congratulations Yar! Captain Neckbeard and fanboi's welcome to your Brave New World!

(CFC is gonna get a lot more applicants soon I think?)

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#5792 - 2014-10-03 18:04:01 UTC
2/10
remus wulf wrote:
The major powers in this game have the manpower and capability to get around these changes to jump drive travel so the ONLY people CCP is hurting are the smaller fish at the bottom of the food chain.

nom nom

Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5793 - 2014-10-03 18:04:41 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
The major powers in this game have the manpower and capability to get around these changes to jump drive travel so the ONLY people CCP is hurting are the smaller fish at the bottom of the food chain.


right... and how many alts and archons do you think you will need to have the same coverage as today?

keep in mind that ccp said they are going to do a balance of the dominion sov mechanics before years end so i highly down CFC or PL or NC. will be able to hold on to the renter space by 2015

I've been clamoring for CCP to unfuck their sov system for more than 3 years, and I have been pretty vocal about it in all that time (granted, mainly on kugu, but still). It literally can't come soon enough.

So what if we were to lose some space over it, as long as it changes the wars from 1 huge fight pr war to multiple small fights pr day.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5794 - 2014-10-03 18:05:32 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Is a JF a strategic asset? Probably not.
Are stealth bombers strategic assets? No.

Putting JF's on fatigue schedule likely has to do with other in-game objectives.

Limiting JF / Rorqual range is to keep them from being used as battle taxis. In short, if they had longer range, they could be used to haul butt across the map via jump drive, then hop into waiting capitals to dunk someone with minimal fatigue. Keeping the range short makes that less practical, which makes using subcaps (or wormholes) to traverse long distances rapidly the optimal method. Since subcaps can be interdicted and delayed in a variety of ways, this adds to the game.
Ban JF from hauling ships and there's no need to kill the eve economy by nerfing the trade ships into oblivion.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5795 - 2014-10-03 18:06:03 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:


No hat required you can draw a direct correlation between R&K videos and " new features ".



And because not everyone is Space Awesome RnK (R&K) developed the 'Pipebomb' tactic.

Reference the link if you have know ******* idea what we're talking about. Cause it's like a thing... rly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNUu75fH8Uc


I got the honour to say " I've been there " not in that video ( although I would have to query how old some of the footage is ) and been involved in some quite interesting and news worth stuff.

Now I guess videos are the best way to remember eve when it was good instead of meh...

Return to topic obey

Yes sir mr ISD sir.

So if we are getting low sec DD's how about the use of bombs you know the stealth bomber kind or is that more OP than titans using gates and DD in low sec ?????????????

The final solution



Much OP ... Bombs will totally imbalance the game you see?

You see right?

No??!! Well GTFO we "didn't want your subscription anyway."

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5796 - 2014-10-03 18:07:00 UTC
Resgo wrote:
Please consider letting carriers and dreadnoughts use the high sec gates. Perhaps with certain module restrictions while they are in high sec such as preventing siege and triage modules from functioning and possibly preventing the launching of fighters. Otherwise purchasing capitals is going to become a very difficult and painful process when you have to worry about how you can get them back anywhere near friendly space. High sec becomes a complete barrier in places.


move the manufacturing of carriers to npc 0.0 near your space... or risk it and make them at home...

if you want to cheap out and buy them in low sec then you should have to take the risk to get them home

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#5797 - 2014-10-03 18:07:23 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:

right... and how many alts and archons do you think you will need to have the same coverage as today?

keep in mind that ccp said they are going to do a balance of the dominion sov mechanics before years end so i highly down CFC or PL or NC. will be able to hold on to the renter space by 2015


Actually, they said the sov changes would be coming next year (the implication was early next year, but not before end-of-year).

Also, the answer to your question is: 3-4 jump clones, w/an archon at each cache site.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5798 - 2014-10-03 18:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhul Chembull
Niobea Aenir wrote:
Demeter Corinth wrote:
It's interesting that a large corporation is stating (in the painfully dry dissertation quoted below) 'This will make us even stronger, therefore I'm in complete disagreement.' The truth is that this will shatter the power blocs that exist. If there is only one attack, on one front, at one time, then yes caches of ships will work as an effective defense.

But multiple attacks, on all fronts, all of the time, and well, a fleet can't be everywhere at once. FCs are not a dime a dozen, and competent FCs will be slim pickens for multiple theaters of war. Smaller fleets, inexperienced FCs, different enemies on all sides and there is a word for that...surrounded.

Small corps and alliances WILL be able to carve out a segment of null as their own, and battles like Akashi (or whatever the system was) will be replaced by small, constant, skirmish warfare, with the occasional constellation grab. Blue donut, enjoy the reign while it lasts.

-D


Your statement 'This will make us even stronger, therefore I'm in complete disagreement.' is wrong.

I agree with the JF changes, only encouraging CCP to provide resources to finish their intention about not importing stuff. Also the cost and time of running large empire will increase, I like that.

I agree with the projection of force limitations, because I want more crowded nullsec with more fights, possibly some trusec changes would be great to make more systems valuable, not forcing coalitions to hold large territories to be able to pay the SRP and caps+. Adding more tasty moons would also help.

I just don't think this update will solve it and I'd like to see the whole concept, not one devblog -> it is impossible to determine how the final picture will look like.

And even more: I want us to have smaller territories with more occupied system. I want smaller alliances get to null sec. It will create more enjoyable content. If the whole CFC will have only a few regions, I'd be happy. More crowded systems - now we really use like 1/6 of the region, the rest of it is just wasteland. But a lot of changes need to be done when we will get there.


Like you said this wont do it. Just make then hug low sec closer and rent out more space. I use the analogy its like they build a castle now and few assassins can get in after patch. Whatever small alliance comes in will get "reoded" for something for them to do. There are other things they will do to make sure no one gets a foot hold out there, believe me. The way they will erode is how they usually do, internal conflict and strife. Luckily I wont be here to watch the universe once more become a mud pit to tredge through to get anywhere. Years of that earlier, uggg just cant do it again. Too much freedom for movement has already been given just cant go back to slow crap. Also for those of you that think an economy can become localized without steady JFs coming in, think again. There are not the right material for certain regions to produce their own T2 stuff. Jita will live on or some other trading hub located in low or high sec.
Necro Cat
Oh Dear God...
#5799 - 2014-10-03 18:07:43 UTC
Hello,
Just my two cents

I've been in the game since 2008, I flew small ships, cruisers and battlecruisers and enjoyed them much, I have spent my career mostly in null and low, been a pirate, now I've found a really good capital fielding alliance. They took me in for training and...

....I am now a carrier/ dreadnaught/ freighter pilot, have been for 3 years (and I'm training for a Super Carrier)

Since then, I have flown alongside a few other capitals in sooooo much combat, it was glorious, it was fun, exciting, really exciting, but...... it was easier than I had thought. Really, really easy.

My capital fleet was crushing absolutely everyone in its path, we hotdropped on everyone we could with impunity, literally everything; one time we even went to low-sec and hotdropped 17 dreadnaughts and 12 carriers on a mining frigate, yes a mining frigate, but that's a tale for another thread. Where we went, it didn't take too long to setup a hotdrop either, there were plenty of targets to drop on, and they wouldn't be able to do anything!.

Over time, I was slowly changing my mind, it was less and less fun to knock down on the home space of the little guys with my capital fleet, taking over their sovereignty, their stations, their space business all the while they couldn't do anything, but look on as their POS's were sacked and the assets in them were seized. It paid, my god did it pay, but it was no longer fun.
What was fun was when they would fight or at least bring a fight.

So today, reading through all this I realized, thinking back on my combat experiences, records and victories in nullsec/lowsec, this is what EvE needs, its something it needs rather desperately; a challenge, a new way of thinking for capital ships, no one should have it easy as I did in my early capital days, its just not right, its not fun for either side of the fight, I know this now, it is why Eve is dying :( so you must implement this.

This really is the step in the right way and does not need any rethinking, so please implement as soon as possible CCP Greyscale, I fully endorse this update!



PS Much Love Greyscale,

From An Alt xx
Arrendis
TK Corp
#5800 - 2014-10-03 18:08:41 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Resgo wrote:
Please consider letting carriers and dreadnoughts use the high sec gates. Perhaps with certain module restrictions while they are in high sec such as preventing siege and triage modules from functioning and possibly preventing the launching of fighters. Otherwise purchasing capitals is going to become a very difficult and painful process when you have to worry about how you can get them back anywhere near friendly space. High sec becomes a complete barrier in places.


move the manufacturing of carriers to npc 0.0 near your space... or risk it and make them at home...

if you want to cheap out and buy them in low sec then you should have to take the risk to get them home


Alternately, they can just wait, since ccp's verbiage on capitals still not using highsec gates was 'yet'.