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So CCP, following this logically if Super carriers are able to jump gates should they not also be able to Dock?



I my view i think Titans should still be blocked from docking but supers should be allowed.

DOCK ALL SUPERS!

Hilarious.

Thinking that these changes will allow the "Little Guys" ™ to take and hold bits of the Blue Donut ™ by hitting the donut in multiple places at once is like thinking that Canada and Mexico could grab chunks of the US simply by hitting Texas, New Mexico, Oregon, and Wyoming at the same time.

The big guys don't need to commit any more than a comparatively small percentage of their resources to obliterate anyone other than another big guy.

Anyone who thinks this will play out in a way that allows the Little Guys to partake of the donut, or the renters to suddenly revolt, thereby causing Content™ is, at best, indulging in some wishful thinking.

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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I literally bought a Titan the day before this was announced. I have black-ops trained to 5 and love flying it. I own a jump freighter and use it quite a bit. I'm not raging about these changes.

I see what they are trying to do, and I like what they are trying to do. I lived in the deep south before titans, before caps, when logistics were hard and required many jumps. You learned to build your own stuff, and when we had to do the 30+ jumps to Jita, it was a BFD, and only done when we really really had to have something that we couldn't build ourselves. Some people specialized in logistics because it was hard and dangerous and they were proud of being good at it.

Our corp at the time had a standing rule for newbies that if you couldn't get yourself to our home system, you weren't ready to join yet. Most folks spent their first months in empire, gaining skills and learning to play before even trying.

We need to get back to an eve were most fights are local, and fought and decided by and between local entities without the loser being able to appeal for immediate aid from half of Eve.

These changes are intended to go in that direction. By themselves, though, they're only changes to mechanics. What will actually have to change is player behavior. Will scrappy little guys spring up all over the map, set their neighbors red, refuse to pay rent, and start tearing away at the borders of the coalitions? If they do, the coalitions won't survive. They won't be able to project power everywhere at once.

If the players are really determined to maintain the current sea of blue standings, and hold the coalitions together, and pay tribute to their feudal lords for permission to exist, they'll figure out a way to do that. No change in mechanics will change that. Changes in mechanics can only make things possible, not mandatory.

CCP just made some stuff possible. Now its up to us.

LOL

In light of the flavor of the current changes, this may not be the ideal day to bring up docking your super.

CCP doesn't seem 'in the mood' to cater to large alliances OR folks flying caps. As your eve legal council I urge you to redact quickly and quietly.

"snicker"

It's easy if I'm honest, let's look at twitch...... how many people stream eve online ? Maybe 50/60 people. Ok 18 months ago 100+ eve is on its last legs . You hold CSM's what do they really achieve? You even have ex players on your staff! kill2(CCP rise) and Ravi an ex PL member come on...... At least talk to them and listen to the rest of the community....l

Before deploying updates like this, the whole concept (including the basic information about planned changes) should have been discussed with CSM.

Then this concept should be presented on forums and then discussed with players to update some minor things before even thinking about releasing the first update.

What I'm really afraid of - I don't think even CCP has this concept ready and they will just release updates in a way "well, it will maybe work, maybe not, who cares.... in worst scenario we will balance it somehow in the next update with nerfing sth else".



The projection of force
I agree it is something which needs to be solved. But in many ways this was probably not the best idea. I hear a lot of voices screaming:

• CFC/PL/{whatever big enough} tears, cry more! etc
• This has to be awesome, if so many nullsec coalitions are so pissed! We will kill them all and take their space.

Well, at least the last point - that's not going to happen. Why? A lot of ppl probably don't realize this is boosting the defending site even more. Now has the defender the upper hand, after this release.. a lot of null sec regions will turn into fortresses extremely hard to conquer...

Because of the nerf of the jump range, it will be much easier to get defending cap fleets to the battle. While the attackers will need to travel large distance in most of the cases.

The attacking side will need much more effort to bring their fleet into the fight. They will probably need to stage closer exposing themselves to the defending site, which can annoy them more conveniently their staging system:

Example: CFC is now under attack. Attackers are staged in Tartoken. They can pick time when to bridge to our territories and they are safe at Tartoken, because it is low sec, it is quite far away and it would be extremely boring to camp nearby system and it would take significant effort to do that.

After the update, they will need to go closer to get to our home system quickly enough to not give us time to do the large formup preventing them to do their job. And then they will need to travel by gates in our territory WO ability to hit us instantly where it hurts.

... but... but ... It will be harder to keep your large empires running!
Yes, this is true. The logistics is already boring... because we need to transfer huge amounts of stuff. But we will do it, it will be just "Extremely annoying 101". Probably more JF alts will be required -> more accounts. It could be CCPs intention to boost their income from subscription fees.

But your capitals will be limited considering the distance they can jump!
Yes, it is again true. But there are many options for nullsec coalitions with huge income to bypass that simply by creating caches of ships... more jump clones... etc. In fact, this update is significantly increasing their importance. We don't need to be afraid of getting hotdropped so we can safely deploy caps to the fights while having an eternity to get them safe if needed - before the enemy cap fleet will get even half the way to us.


I think that this change will only help to preserve the current status quo. Large coalitions won't attack themselves in the full scale war because the attacking side would risk losing its regions when staged on the other end of the map - or they will need much more effort to keep them safe while being staged.

The small guys will be just beaten to death when trying to attack.


It takes really a long time to train character to fly them effectively, so a lot of guys will be mad about it. Some SP reassignment after all planned changes will be announced would be probably handy. So this pilots would have an option to get rid of their cap skills and use them as they wish. - - It would be fair if presenting so significant nerf.

We can expect even more cap and supcap usage for the everyday matters like ratting, plexing etc. The fear of being hotdropped will be really lowered - for the coalitions with the large territories. The small guy will be here beaten again. While holding only small space next to someones borders you will be likely hotdropped while all the ratting supers/caps in the deep blue territories will be near to completely safe.


I really agree with intention behind this change. I really support manufacturing things locally and not transporting them from jita making milk runs - and this will get really harder, more time consuming -> discouraging ppl to do it.

Yes! But please first think about providing us with resources so we can do it WO need to import them from jita.



A lot of small groups living in null sec will be unable to supply their towers or ppl because of the JF (and carrier) 5LY jump range. In many cases they will need to go through enemy territories and even worse - in some cases through territories held by one of the large coalitions, making themselves a juicy target to kill. Again, the small guy takes one for the team. Large coalitions can provide easily 100+ protection fleets for the milk runs, small guy can't.

How to help them:
It could be interesting to provide new rigs allowing carriers jump to original distances WO fatigue, but with really significant impact in the carrier abilities -> tiny dps, significantly lowered HP, no remote reps, not removable for at least 48hours - it will prevent to project force and carriers have too small cargo for the needs of large coalitions.

What you think they are doing this for your benefit? It's nice being able to talk to no end about things you haven't a clue about and don't directly effect you isn't it?

Many tears from null-bears like PL, GS, and NC: high quality of proposed changes is confirmed!

I'm sure there will minor tweaks along the way, but the outlines of this change are fantastic. Exactly what needs to happen.