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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5481 - 2014-10-03 13:26:57 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:



Lies. Buy a clue from logistics experts before mouthing off again please.



Logistic expert? you call yourself a logistic expert for undockign, clickign Jump dockign imediately, lighting another cyno and clickign JUmp again?


LOL then my dog is a logistic expert as well.
yes, the hundreds of millions of m3 I have delivered halfway across the galaxy decidedly make me an expert. Nice Sperg though, you are truly the essence of eve's quality player base.
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#5482 - 2014-10-03 13:29:56 UTC
Jake Rivers wrote:
For all those quitting why sell your ****? It is not like you are going to have a use for that ISK so just contract your **** to me and be done with it and make sure to biomass your characters afterwords EVE has no place for the likes of you.

I welcome this change and all the rest that will spice up SOV space and once again make it a challenge.

SOV has stagnated and become a cesspool of boredom and needs a good shake up.

For all those chicken little's yes the sky is crashing down on you and may even flatten your sorry ass, but EVE will still be a sandbox and EVE players are very tenacious in finding new ways to make the most of any system CCP toss's out to us.

I will of course be training up all my alts to fly carriers and dreads just so I can take full advantage of long range hot drops. ^_^


The present day SOV system is only 5 years or less old there are more stagnated things in the game that have been waiting a lot longer to be touched upon just they never do.

I hope your an alt and remember the days where SOV was determined by how many moons your alliance had POS's on if not never mind your still young and new to the ride.
Anthar Thebess
#5483 - 2014-10-03 13:30:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
I love those changes , as they will stop eve being isk/h but effort/outcome.


Isk/hr will never go away.


No it will not, but it will not be only way to do it.
I really hope that eve will become localized, and after some time in north people will be using almost only caldari ships in their fleets.
In south people will be raiding amarr hulls.
And you will not always will be able to get every thing every where in any amount.

I hope that at some point CFC come to senses and stop renting , and tell - we have more systems than we need , we cut every thing below fountain.

( i know you have ships, you have people .... Roll )

Simply in order to get fights , place to roam, someone to shoot at close at home - releasing some of the unused space.

I don't want NC to fall apart, or PL to go away.
They are players , they need to simply understand that this is a game.
Game , that needs diversity , multiple small groups , without it it will again degrade in a way we see it now.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#5484 - 2014-10-03 13:32:18 UTC
Rollaz wrote:
CCP Greyscale
CCP Logibro
CCP Fozzie

If it hasn't been said before...

A char that's been sold should either:

A. Have it's jump timer reset
or
B. The Character Bazaar char disclosures needs to be updated to require the disclosure of a timer greater then "x" days.


Also, can we these two values added to the API so we can see them out of game?

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Morphias
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#5485 - 2014-10-03 13:32:43 UTC
I think the timer after using a jump drive is a good idea... at the moment cap fleet movements are too easy, bridging at blops also very easy.

I don't think the distance needs to be changed, the cool down timer would be enough to change these.

I also think that this change will have a negative impact on logistics, which will not do very much for creating content within 0.0.

Freighters / Jump Freighters / Requrals should keep their travel distance at the very least.

I also think that there are several entities within the game that will just stage large number of carriers / dreads close to their front lines and be able to move between these in sub-cap ship or jump clones with relative ease. This would reduce the amount of jumps they are doing so negate the impact of these changes while still being able to quickly move between different fronts.

If this does come to light then again the biggest impact will be felt within the smaller entities within the game.

Balance is hard, but required.

My Two Cents
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5486 - 2014-10-03 13:32:48 UTC
Terraniel Aurelius wrote:
With the maximum jump range being 5 Lightyears, this will no longer be the case for several regions. With the proposed jump fatigue mechanic "very quickly" turns to painfully slowly. Gate camps will become the new standard for "Sov PvP".

I feel as though you have forgotten that we do not play this game in a vacuum. This will reduce the maneuverability of fleets and make them much more predictable. Spies will now eliminate any surprise factors that could have been had. If you think that spies are not a factor, then you have not played this game enough to understand how it works.


Yes, the geography is going to make a lot of difference. Yes, getting the upper hand over the enemy fleet is going to be hard. These are both things that we see as broadly positive.

Letrange wrote:
@greyscale @anyFC

Sudden though, could FC's chime in on this?

Would it be possible to add some form of jump fatigue indicator of a fleet and not just the individual pilots? I think that FC's would like to know what the max jump timer and max fatigue (and possible average jump timer and average fatigue with a x/y indicator indicating how many pilots are still part of the average) for a fleet without having to manually ask the pilots in the fleet to yell out how much jump cooldown they have left.

New tab on the fleet panel, some other indicator. Since there's now a cool-down after a jump and it's influenced by fatigue, it may be different for various members of a fleet. Also knowing if anyone still has fatigue going INTO a fleet since this means that parts of the fleet may take longer before they're able to jump than the rest of the fleet.

Also good for normal fleets using bridges since fc's may want to keep "sudden movement" capability of using jump bridges in reserve and knowing how much fatigue is in the fleet as a whole and how much that'll hang up their ability to use the next jump bridge may need to factor into their decision making.


Added this to my "to discuss" list.




OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5487 - 2014-10-03 13:33:10 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
hezie99 wrote:
As has been said a number of times... I dont believe the issue is with the combat aspect of it, we welcome some of the changes. its more the logistical issues.

CCP: be smart take JFs etc out of this re balance and leave them as are, there is no reason why they should change, especially since you have stopped death clones.




Nerf JF further. Take the knees out from under the large empires. Make logistics impossible to manage for LAAARGE alliances. Once folks start taking care of themselves, they will realize they don't need big daddy to give them handouts.

The loud cry to let up on JF nerfs is the absolute reason the cut should be just a little bit deeper to them.

Honestly, if (as in someone's example) the price of a covert ops cloak goes from 5 mil back to 100 mil.... Sweet, little start up corps/alliances will be able to fund their efforts bringing them to market. A task that is too difficult for a large lazy bloated oversized..... (you get the picture) alliance will be a welcome opportunity for agile and nimble groups.

The covert ops cloaks will get built and prices will stabalize. If they stabalize at really high levels then isk will recoup some of it's value. I recall the days when I paid 14 mil for a fleeting webber because the T2 variant was too expensive. If the best option for a webber is a 14 mill fleeting, then npc loot will again have value and folks will stop to collect it. OMG... this would cause folks to go out an play the game to make isk. They would hang in belts/anoms longer promoting pvp.

My point is that if someones argument is that it's too difficult to XXXXX, those claims are on a personal level. There will always be 1,000s of guys lower on the food chain willing to step up and feast on another's scraps. If you're too rich to be bothered picking up that 14 mill isk webber from the wreck, it's probably time to go lose some ships in pvp.


Again, you are invoking your personal nostalgia from a distant time that EVE had less subscribers and concurrent logins. Also you are ignoring the fact that a small and a nimble group still will not have a chance at getting those goods to production centers and getting the final goods to the markets without incurring greater risk that they will have to pass onto the final consumers, thus making them noncompetitive versus larger, resourceful and more organized entities which will be able to do all of that with less risk.

If it is your intent to go back to these days, by all means, continue to hold onto your nostalgia. But I'm afraid your nostalgia has never been a fiscal environment that CCP would like to see themselves in. I'm pretty sure CCP does not want the subscription numbers and concurrent number of logins to the days that you seem to be so keen to remember.
Please Turn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5488 - 2014-10-03 13:34:20 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Please Turn wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Please Turn wrote:
To all people claiming that Eve is a game and not a second job!

You're perfectly right, the problem is that you don't act like Eve is a game. You (most of you anyway) hide in a sea of blues and build pixel empires and fortunes why exactly? Waiting for pings to hot-drop some scrub is what, to me, feels exactly like a second job. With these changes, hopefully, at least partially, this kind of behavior will be seen less and less.

Oh, but the economy!

Since, we agreed that Eve is a game(did we, right?) were did come this idea that all Eve(null-sec included) must be "FarmVille" online? Let Null-Sec be the wild west, and play Eve as you claim that it needs to be: a game, not your virtual empire that leads to your second job that you seem to hate so much.


Not sure why you think it is bad behavior for them to defend and destroy others near their territory. That is part of holding taking sov. They build "pixel empires" because it is fun to create something in a concentrated group effort, although it may be for other reasons and I am purely speculating. So working together to make a tight community is bad ? Perhaps you are not in the right game but need to go play a single player game, it might be a better fit. Your other comments on the virtual empire and second job make no sense. Until you have clear facts and good arguments to why this is going to work, might just want to sit on the side line a bit.


Short answer. Community != Empire. When two entities control all the Eve universe and they make an agreement to not ever attack each other in any meaningful way that may harm one or the other, than we're past the point of a community working together for some common goal ( that is, unless the goal has nothing to do with the game itself). Genuinely curious, do you disagree on this?


Yes because its an open game, if that is the direction it goes so be it. Also history of Eve shows that no one Alliance or empire last forever. They eventually implode and turn on each other, it is human nature after all to be destructive. Just because the rest can not oust them doesn't mean the devs need to step in, it sets a bad precedence. They implode on their own most the time as many are pretty egotistical asshats. Let nature take care of itself. If the devs want to fix stuff, fix supers from hitting with their drones while inside the shields of a POS. It is stuff like that, that needs to be fixed, not making a boring mechanic which makes it a hellish nightmare to move stuff around.


Well, is not much to talk in this case. Nerfing supers ok, nerfing logistic not ok 'cause you say so. Lets agree to disagree. Big smile

Join TheTuskers, travel to exotic distant lands, meet exciting unusual people and ... kill them!
Anthar Thebess
#5489 - 2014-10-03 13:34:24 UTC
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:

Also, can we these two values added to the API so we can see them out of game?


Sorry but this is bad idea.
This way again big blobs will find a way how to easily plan their big operations.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Kyalla Ahashion
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5490 - 2014-10-03 13:35:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyalla Ahashion
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Can supers use gates after this change?
Yes.

Is the balance for Black Ops final?
No. Please give feedback!


A possible way that you could support Black Ops (and other hotdropping activities for that matter) would be to add a mechanic where the starting system plays a special role:

- When at 0 jump fatigue, the first time you jump (drive/bridge) out of a system, that system is recorded as an origin point.
- An origin point persists until jump fatigue reaches 0.
- The current "point of origin" is displayed in the tooltip for the jump fatigue indicator.
- A jump back to your point of origin incurs no additional jump fatigue - it's essentially "free"


This supports hotdropping activities well - you can go back to where you came from easily WHILE still waiting our your jump fatigue, and it avoids having to give another hull a reduction to jump fatigue.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#5491 - 2014-10-03 13:37:54 UTC
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:
Rollaz wrote:
CCP Greyscale
CCP Logibro
CCP Fozzie

If it hasn't been said before...

A char that's been sold should either:

A. Have it's jump timer reset
or
B. The Character Bazaar char disclosures needs to be updated to require the disclosure of a timer greater then "x" days.


Also, can we these two values added to the API so we can see them out of game?


No you shouldn't be able to see them out of game.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5492 - 2014-10-03 13:38:24 UTC
As a Naglfar holdout, I'm happy to see the King-of-brawl-DPS Moros, despite its cap problems, reclaiming its FOTM status now that their predominant use doesn't include getting cyno-capped.

I had a great time testing exactly what I'd need to 100mn microwarp-cycle a moros on Sisi. Who knew?

Until caps are touched in the warp speed to stretch them out, it looks like they're in great shape.

I guess they could be rigged to keep up with Orcas but that's just silly

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
BuddyKnife
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5493 - 2014-10-03 13:39:59 UTC  |  Edited by: BuddyKnife
To all the people who say that large scale logistics is not needed or that it should be nerfed more to break up the large blocks. I am sorry to inform you this is an empire building game a large portion of the players play this game for that exact reason. If you take away our empire you take away our reason to play.

Please change back the JF and Rorqual jump range till you have fixed the T1 mineral distribution and made a meaningful attempt at making all T2 materials available in all parts of space. Maybe ring mining?

@CCPgreyscale @CCPdev
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5494 - 2014-10-03 13:40:04 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
gascanu wrote:
Kalissis wrote:
gascanu wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:


Honestly HTFU. Your post ills me on how soft the players of this game have gotten. The value if time has returned, the value of organizing has returned, the value of ships have return, the onta action dog piling is being gutted, the kits cash cow is being sliced open and spread out all around high sec, ship replacement program have more value. These changes return eve to the day of the lone wolf butterfly effect and move us away from the embarassment of B-R. You need to embrace the cliff and get your lips off of the tit of easy mode. If your are a eve player you will look at these changes and except the challange, if you are a insta action log in when convient fly by mmo wow child you will quit and the over all IQ of if will be better for it. I personally hope the people crying in this thread and threatening to quit do so the vets who miss the game that made eve great will return and set the universe on fire.

oh are you a vet then?
set the universe on fire? how will you do that with cruisers?


You dont have a clue what you are talking about, DNSBlack is one of the oldest and "respected" individuals in EVE, he knows what he is talking about:

http://evenews24.com/2014/10/01/re-post-a-letter-to-the-csm7-back-to-the-gates/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNXqsxz8V50

And to be hontest, he is on point AGAIN!

ps. DNSBlack will use ARAZUS, not "cruisers".

you still don't answer to my question;
i like you some "vets" here are all joy getting theyr 2004 eve back, buy you faill to consider that in fact this chenge will not bring back that eve; you didn't have bubble immune intys back then, no nullified t3, no bombers, to name just a few; you did not have CAPS all around the universe back then; also, let's not forget batleships where able to actually do 20 jumps in a resonable amount of time back then, and even the freighters(yea, i know) where able to do an 100AU war in less that a evening;
so yea, keep asking for 2004 eve back, don't be surprised when all you get will be 250 dreads in the face Cool


Yes indeed, they seem to be thinking that with the combat projection gone, large entities with numbers and ISK are simply going to vanish overnight. It's a mixture of naivety and useless nostalgia.


most of all, they fail to understand that for a small entity to get sov in a deep space corner, they need to get there first; you don't really jump a carrier there and just start taking space; you need ALLOT of stuff, allot of big stuff, and well, your jfs will be too" fatiguet " after one way trip;
but hey, they can can do some "freighter convoy ops" i guess....
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5495 - 2014-10-03 13:40:32 UTC
Please Turn wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Please Turn wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Please Turn wrote:
To all people claiming that Eve is a game and not a second job!

You're perfectly right, the problem is that you don't act like Eve is a game. You (most of you anyway) hide in a sea of blues and build pixel empires and fortunes why exactly? Waiting for pings to hot-drop some scrub is what, to me, feels exactly like a second job. With these changes, hopefully, at least partially, this kind of behavior will be seen less and less.

Oh, but the economy!

Since, we agreed that Eve is a game(did we, right?) were did come this idea that all Eve(null-sec included) must be "FarmVille" online? Let Null-Sec be the wild west, and play Eve as you claim that it needs to be: a game, not your virtual empire that leads to your second job that you seem to hate so much.


Not sure why you think it is bad behavior for them to defend and destroy others near their territory. That is part of holding taking sov. They build "pixel empires" because it is fun to create something in a concentrated group effort, although it may be for other reasons and I am purely speculating. So working together to make a tight community is bad ? Perhaps you are not in the right game but need to go play a single player game, it might be a better fit. Your other comments on the virtual empire and second job make no sense. Until you have clear facts and good arguments to why this is going to work, might just want to sit on the side line a bit.


Short answer. Community != Empire. When two entities control all the Eve universe and they make an agreement to not ever attack each other in any meaningful way that may harm one or the other, than we're past the point of a community working together for some common goal ( that is, unless the goal has nothing to do with the game itself). Genuinely curious, do you disagree on this?


Yes because its an open game, if that is the direction it goes so be it. Also history of Eve shows that no one Alliance or empire last forever. They eventually implode and turn on each other, it is human nature after all to be destructive. Just because the rest can not oust them doesn't mean the devs need to step in, it sets a bad precedence. They implode on their own most the time as many are pretty egotistical asshats. Let nature take care of itself. If the devs want to fix stuff, fix supers from hitting with their drones while inside the shields of a POS. It is stuff like that, that needs to be fixed, not making a boring mechanic which makes it a hellish nightmare to move stuff around.


Well, is not much to talk in this case. Nerfing supers ok, nerfing logistic not ok 'cause you say so. Lets agree to disagree. Big smile



Do you really think that you can change the basic human inclination to cooperate and collude with others when there are mutually beneficial gains to be had by adding artificial restrictions on game mechanics? If your answer is yes, you are naive.
Grave Digger Eriker
Doomheim
#5496 - 2014-10-03 13:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Grave Digger Eriker
Alp Khan wrote:
Nerf JF further. Take the knees out from under the large empires. Make logistics impossible to manage for LAAARGE alliances. Once folks start taking care of themselves,
So nerf JF so far that large alliances cannot use them. Then how is the lone or small group supposed to operate.
Nelly Ooze
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5497 - 2014-10-03 13:42:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nelly Ooze
Kyalla Ahashion wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Can supers use gates after this change?
Yes.

Is the balance for Black Ops final?
No. Please give feedback!


A possible way that you could support Black Ops (and other hotdropping activities for that matter) would be to add a mechanic where the starting system plays a special role:

- When at 0 jump fatigue, the first time you jump (drive/bridge) out of a system, that system is recorded as an origin point.
- An origin point persists until jump fatigue reaches 0.
- The current "point of origin" is displayed in the tooltip for the jump fatigue indicator.
- A jump back to your point of origin incurs no additional jump fatigue - it's essentially "free"


This supports hotdropping activities well - you can go back to where you came from easily WHILE still waiting our your jump fatigue, and it avoids having to give another hull a reduction to jump fatigue.


I like this idea.
This will allow blops fleet to still be a thing :)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5498 - 2014-10-03 13:43:00 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)

ok, yeah. guilty.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Fret Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5499 - 2014-10-03 13:43:06 UTC
Grave Digger Eriker wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Nerf JF further. Take the knees out from under the large empires. Make logistics impossible to manage for LAAARGE alliances. Once folks start taking care of themselves,
So nerf JF so far that large alliances cannot use them. Then how is the lone or small group supposed to operate.


In deep null you aren't honestly.

That's what NPC/lowsec/border space is for.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5500 - 2014-10-03 13:43:14 UTC
Grave Digger Eriker wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Nerf JF further. Take the knees out from under the large empires. Make logistics impossible to manage for LAAARGE alliances. Once folks start taking care of themselves,
So nerf JF so far that large alliances cannot use them. Then how is the lone or small group supposed to operate.


I did not say that, it was someone else that said that, which I quoted. I think you messed up the quotation markers. Smile