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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5461 - 2014-10-03 13:14:47 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:

Not at all. Like I said numbers don't lie and I am laughing at your naïve conception of what will happen. You can not move expensive goods through low sec gates in a consistent fashion without losing all of it. I can tell you have never done logistics or you would not be spouting off what you have no idea about. You think you are going to get a piece of the pie somehow but the big alliances will make sure you don't get a crumb. You think when this goes into effect that they wont camp all the choke points to make a point to the devs ? I have 11 years to back up what I am saying which has been put forth logically. Like I said the number of subs vs unsubbs after this goes into effect will back up what I am saying. I HOPE I am wrong.


As i Said, and you were unable to read. I did logistic when there were no jump freighters. And it was NOT as you say it will be. Yes it needed a bit more involvement. I needed you to play the game. I have not 11 year playing, only 9 but is mroe than enough.

No I do not think I am going to get a piece of the pie. I will KILL SHIPS and playe the damm game because there will be more ships flying in the game.


And numbers do not lie? you presented NOT A SINGLE NUMBER!!!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
#5462 - 2014-10-03 13:17:16 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Another 2 things:

1. This hole change in effect renders caps (as logistic) more or less unusable in the grand scheme, CCP, what on earth do you think that will do to nullsec and some low sec PVP? How on earth are sub-cap ships going to get there? Are we going to fly them there 1 by one? I mean honestly? The more I think about it the dummer this change gets!

2. With the current distribution of ice belts, nearly all caps will be mostly grounded. No one can jump their caps because there are not isotopes and no one can get isotopes to the caps because its near impossible (depending where you are ofc)

The patch will make things interesting, but only for a few weeks maybe months. After that it will just be a pain because nothing can be moved. The game will become work, not fun. I do not know the exact percentage of total eve players that live in null, but I am sure its a significant. This patch will make it tough to live in null, and with that alot of null players will stop.

I really support the idea of trying to make capitals being used more on their own, but there must be an intelligent way of doing it, because the current one, as is, is just stupid.


Honestly HTFU. Your post ills me on how soft the players of this game have gotten. The value of time has returned, the value of organizing has returned, the value of ships have return, the insta action dog piling is being gutted, the jita cash cow is being sliced open and spread out all around high sec, ship replacement program have more value. These changes return eve to the day of the lone wolf butterfly effect and move us away from the embarassment of B-R. You need to embrace the cliff and get your lips off of the tit of easy mode. If your are a eve player you will look at these changes and except the challange, if you are a insta action log in when convient fly by mmo wow child you will quit and the over all IQ of if will be better for it. I personally hope the people crying in this thread and threatening to quit do so the vets who miss the game that made eve great will return and set the universe on fire. It isgoing to take us 2 years to make eve what it once was but eve players will make it happen.


Misha owned. Fantastic stuff
Momitsu
Deep Exploration Projects and Programs
#5463 - 2014-10-03 13:17:16 UTC
Finally I understand why people in Jita local are saying: "Have to leave to 0.0 asap, selling all my stuff cheap!" Cool
Fret Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5464 - 2014-10-03 13:17:40 UTC
Low Sec is gonna be so much more interesting Big smile
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5465 - 2014-10-03 13:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhul Chembull
Please Turn wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Please Turn wrote:
To all people claiming that Eve is a game and not a second job!

You're perfectly right, the problem is that you don't act like Eve is a game. You (most of you anyway) hide in a sea of blues and build pixel empires and fortunes why exactly? Waiting for pings to hot-drop some scrub is what, to me, feels exactly like a second job. With these changes, hopefully, at least partially, this kind of behavior will be seen less and less.

Oh, but the economy!

Since, we agreed that Eve is a game(did we, right?) were did come this idea that all Eve(null-sec included) must be "FarmVille" online? Let Null-Sec be the wild west, and play Eve as you claim that it needs to be: a game, not your virtual empire that leads to your second job that you seem to hate so much.


Not sure why you think it is bad behavior for them to defend and destroy others near their territory. That is part of holding taking sov. They build "pixel empires" because it is fun to create something in a concentrated group effort, although it may be for other reasons and I am purely speculating. So working together to make a tight community is bad ? Perhaps you are not in the right game but need to go play a single player game, it might be a better fit. Your other comments on the virtual empire and second job make no sense. Until you have clear facts and good arguments to why this is going to work, might just want to sit on the side line a bit.


Short answer. Community != Empire. When two entities control all the Eve universe and they make an agreement to not ever attack each other in any meaningful way that may harm one or the other, than we're past the point of a community working together for some common goal ( that is, unless the goal has nothing to do with the game itself). Genuinely curious, do you disagree on this?


Yes because its an open game, if that is the direction it goes so be it. Also history of Eve shows that no one Alliance or empire last forever. They eventually implode and turn on each other, it is human nature after all to be destructive. Just because the rest can not oust them doesn't mean the devs need to step in, it sets a bad precedence. They implode on their own most the time as many are pretty egotistical asshats. Let nature take care of itself. If the devs want to fix stuff, fix supers from hitting with their drones while inside the shields of a POS. It is stuff like that, that needs to be fixed, not making a boring mechanic which makes it a hellish nightmare to move stuff around.
Anthar Thebess
#5466 - 2014-10-03 13:18:02 UTC
gascanu wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:

oh are you a vet then?
set the universe on fire? how will you do that with cruisers?


Using guns!
There was never real issue doing something if you really want.
The issue was that AFK empires are controlled by fast moving fleets , without any consequences and even dedication to the stuff they are doing.

You could be surprised how often i was hitting multimilion ehp structure in cruiser or a bomber.
The issue was ( and still is ) that on a final timer 250 capitals arrived, blocked every possible escalation by equal in size subcapital fleet sitting almost in jump range , and 10% TIDI that might occur and then every one even from other side of eve could join.

Annoying fact was that no one was using this system after this fleet left.

How angry you can be when you drop BS fleet , starting to shoot ihub , because of just you shooting ihub you get 10% tidi, and then you get news - enemy went to save friendly titan tackled , on the other side of eve.
So you shoot ... and at 30% of structure you get cyno near ihub and 250 slowcats arrives.

Because of broken mechanic , they managed to travel whole galaxy in both ways before your 250 man fleet managed to kill ihub ... as TIDI kicked in.

Think about it .
Two objectives on the far sides of eve universe achieved by one fleet.
What more they traveled galaxy twice.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Filip Bonn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5467 - 2014-10-03 13:18:51 UTC
Good job CCP
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#5468 - 2014-10-03 13:20:00 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Another 2 things:

1. This hole change in effect renders caps (as logistic) more or less unusable in the grand scheme, CCP, what on earth do you think that will do to nullsec and some low sec PVP? How on earth are sub-cap ships going to get there? Are we going to fly them there 1 by one? I mean honestly? The more I think about it the dummer this change gets!

2. With the current distribution of ice belts, nearly all caps will be mostly grounded. No one can jump their caps because there are not isotopes and no one can get isotopes to the caps because its near impossible (depending where you are ofc)

The patch will make things interesting, but only for a few weeks maybe months. After that it will just be a pain because nothing can be moved. The game will become work, not fun. I do not know the exact percentage of total eve players that live in null, but I am sure its a significant. This patch will make it tough to live in null, and with that alot of null players will stop.

I really support the idea of trying to make capitals being used more on their own, but there must be an intelligent way of doing it, because the current one, as is, is just stupid.


Honestly HTFU. Your post ills me on how soft the players of this game have gotten. The value of time has returned, the value of organizing has returned, the value of ships have return, the insta action dog piling is being gutted, the jita cash cow is being sliced open and spread out all around high sec, ship replacement program have more value. These changes return eve to the day of the lone wolf butterfly effect and move us away from the embarassment of B-R. You need to embrace the cliff and get your lips off of the tit of easy mode. If your are a eve player you will look at these changes and except the challange, if you are a insta action log in when convient fly by mmo wow child you will quit and the over all IQ of if will be better for it. I personally hope the people crying in this thread and threatening to quit do so the vets who miss the game that made eve great will return and set the universe on fire. It isgoing to take us 2 years to make eve what it once was but eve players will make it happen.



*slow clap*

Way to go, Coach.

Ill see you in Iceland again, with another poster
Jethro Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5469 - 2014-10-03 13:20:01 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Jethro Winchester wrote:
FU 2 wrote:
I can foresee Jita covered in supercaps :D


Don't forget that Snuff Box, Shadow Cartel, etc, etc will be camping every lowsec entry point with supers, titans, and insta-locking Loki's since nobody will be able to hotdrop them.



IF they keep that too long they WILL be hotdropped. Nothign will prevent the power from doidng htat. They will just need to plan it on friday and execute on saturday.


With that much time to deploy somebody will notice and the op will be blown. Nobody is going to want to tie up that much game time with such a small chance of success.
Misha Hartmann
Tribal Mist
#5470 - 2014-10-03 13:20:11 UTC
gascanu wrote:
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Another thing:

- As I understand it, there is not fun in eve anymore - how on earth is making eve MORE WORK going to make that better? I mean seriously. The jump changes make eve more work. That sort of effort sucks!!!!! More effort, less playing AND LESS FUN!!!!

- I suggest again, instead of making eve 3-4 times smaller, make eve 3-4 times bigger.

you don't understand:
there will be ALLOT of new ppl that will do convoy escorts all day; that's where all the fun will be; ppl doing convoy ops and protecting freighters...till they got dropped by 100 caps, lose the freighters and then repeat;
man those convoy ops will be pure fun, they'll have MERCENARYS and all Blink


Perhaps you are right, and I guarantee there will be huge amounts of fun, initially. Once the novelty has worn off, logistics will become tough. And some people who get awfully personal about some of the stuff I say; just think a bit. I have said several times, that some changes are nice, but other changes unbalance some areas I quite like (and obviously a lot of others)

Thus, I am saying, change is great, I like change, but change for the good and not change simply because its needed.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5471 - 2014-10-03 13:20:57 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
The Slayer wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
xanderr wrote:
WTS 1 Nyx and 1 Nomad **** this game, Good luck CCP hope you enjoy another 10 years of continual growth and year on year profit Roll



You mean they shoudl stay on the current capital online that since stablished CONTINUOUSLY decreased subscriptions?


Where are your figures on the subscription levels coming from? Because the last time I saw any official numbers out of CCP they were increasing year on year. I haven't seen any figures released that suggest a decline in subscribers.


There are a lot of emotional outcries but very few statistics to backup many that support this change. I unsubbed all my accounts and I do the industry thing. Again, it was not a fit throwing, but like someone said earlier, I am not spending many days doing something that use to take me a day or so to do. Doing logistics is not fun as is, but it is very essential to the health of the game, they are breaking this mechanic. Again, why go back to transports in horse and carriage when we have had a jet. I just cant go back to a mechanic that creates a ton of boredom.



overreactive childish response. You will NOT spend days. You will take about 1 hour to go jita to ANYWHERE, that if you do nto want to make gate jumps at all. Ifyou are not that sttuborn you can do it in half an hour with the changes.

Lies. Buy a clue from logistics experts before mouthing off again please.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5472 - 2014-10-03 13:21:16 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
I love those changes , as they will stop eve being isk/h but effort/outcome.


Isk/hr will never go away.
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#5473 - 2014-10-03 13:21:20 UTC
Kaitlynne Grayson wrote:
DREADNOUGHTS: Allow dreads out of siege to hit sub-capitals again. Scale their tracking and damage enough to be lethal to battleships, but have trouble against anything smaller. They are, after all, supposed to be the anti-battleship battleship. As soon as they enter siege, hit them with a penalty to tracking so that they are reduced to their current levels of effectiveness for structure bashing purposes. This way, they have the option of being effective against sub-capitals, but still be vulnerable to fleets of smaller ships and prone to being shut down by electronic warfare, or a massive tank, but only be effective against structures and other capitals. To be fair, dreadnoughts *do* need a way to defend themselves for now, as with no drone bay, a ridiculous locking time, and very low anti-subcap dps, they're virtually helpless without a support fleet of proper composition or significant size.

CARRIERS: Keep them as they are currently.

TITANS: At least give their guns back the ability to hit small targets again, like the dread weapons. The idea that a titan, this massive behemoth in space, can't even defend itself from a single battleship is a little ridiculous, don't you think?

So, now let's move on to the new ships: the Strike Carrier and the Strike Dreadnought.


While i agree with your idea in principle keeping one group of capitals the way they are and introducing a lighter version with the same bonuses or role is a problem.

Carriers launching 15 sentry drones IS THE PROBLEM. There needs to be MORE capital ships yes but also more defined roles for them.

What is defined in capital ships as a PURE logistical ship ? None.
What is defined in capital ships as a combat ship ? dreads, titans, carriers and super carriers ( cant forget the battle rorq that i know is being EFT’d to death at this moment ).

Do you see the problem CCP you have defined every capital as a combat ship and nothing as a pure logistical ship so you undoubtedly want to nerf bat them all because defining the roles of capitals more ( and by extension introducing more capitals ) is a course of action that I have been trying to push for the last 3 years and you have responded with silence. Now you want to bat them all because your vision is so tunnel focused you can’t or don’t see the fact of an entire class of ships with a sole purpose of shooting as bad.

Archons, thanys, niddy and chimmys have to many bonuses. They are logistical, they are combat.
Create a new carrier by all means but when or if CCP do, define the role for it, Is it logistical, is it for shooting. I personally have used a carrier as a logistical ship a big guardian if you will. This has helped the small corps I have been part of because logistics pilots are a dying bread. There is nothing to aim for after the logistical cruiser for them that like to make the game about keeping people alive under hostile fire, The carrier is supposed to do this as defined by its bonuses and with this proposed crap will not be used as such again.

on your point of titans NO and NO insta blapping EWAR immune multy million EHP ships have already been dealt with and the abortion of them was welcome by all.

I’m playing catch up after getting a fresh supply of strontium to help siege this threadnaught.
Siege green lets grind this down.....
Ynef
Skill Extraction Slavery
#5474 - 2014-10-03 13:22:29 UTC
Change your minds people!
This change is not about "do what you do now, but harder". Don't try to apply these new mechanics to the current game play!

This shall be a brand new exciting game.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5475 - 2014-10-03 13:22:45 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:



Lies. Buy a clue from logistics experts before mouthing off again please.



Logistic expert? you call yourself a logistic expert for undockign, clickign Jump dockign imediately, lighting another cyno and clickign JUmp again?


LOL then my dog is a logistic expert as well.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5476 - 2014-10-03 13:23:05 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:

Not at all. Like I said numbers don't lie and I am laughing at your naïve conception of what will happen. You can not move expensive goods through low sec gates in a consistent fashion without losing all of it. I can tell you have never done logistics or you would not be spouting off what you have no idea about. You think you are going to get a piece of the pie somehow but the big alliances will make sure you don't get a crumb. You think when this goes into effect that they wont camp all the choke points to make a point to the devs ? I have 11 years to back up what I am saying which has been put forth logically. Like I said the number of subs vs unsubbs after this goes into effect will back up what I am saying. I HOPE I am wrong.


As i Said, and you were unable to read. I did logistic when there were no jump freighters. And it was NOT as you say it will be. Yes it needed a bit more involvement. I needed you to play the game. I have not 11 year playing, only 9 but is mroe than enough.

No I do not think I am going to get a piece of the pie. I will KILL SHIPS and playe the damm game because there will be more ships flying in the game.


And numbers do not lie? you presented NOT A SINGLE NUMBER!!!!!


I unsubbed all my accounts, do you have some that have added to that number ? That is a fact so there is a number of accounts less because of this upcoming upgrade. I know if I don't support a product I don't pay for it. I hope it changes but I doubt it. For the first time in a long time my mining fleet is not up. Shrug.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5477 - 2014-10-03 13:23:18 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
Kalissis wrote:
gascanu wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Another 2 things:

1. This hole change in effect renders caps (as logistic) more or less unusable in the grand scheme, CCP, what on earth do you think that will do to nullsec and some low sec PVP? How on earth are sub-cap ships going to get there? Are we going to fly them there 1 by one? I mean honestly? The more I think about it the dummer this change gets!

2. With the current distribution of ice belts, nearly all caps will be mostly grounded. No one can jump their caps because there are not isotopes and no one can get isotopes to the caps because its near impossible (depending where you are ofc)

The patch will make things interesting, but only for a few weeks maybe months. After that it will just be a pain because nothing can be moved. The game will become work, not fun. I do not know the exact percentage of total eve players that live in null, but I am sure its a significant. This patch will make it tough to live in null, and with that alot of null players will stop.

I really support the idea of trying to make capitals being used more on their own, but there must be an intelligent way of doing it, because the current one, as is, is just stupid.


Honestly HTFU. Your post ills me on how soft the players of this game have gotten. The value if time has returned, the value of organizing has returned, the value of ships have return, the onta action dog piling is being gutted, the kits cash cow is being sliced open and spread out all around high sec, ship replacement program have more value. These changes return eve to the day of the lone wolf butterfly effect and move us away from the embarassment of B-R. You need to embrace the cliff and get your lips off of the tit of easy mode. If your are a eve player you will look at these changes and except the challange, if you are a insta action log in when convient fly by mmo wow child you will quit and the over all IQ of if will be better for it. I personally hope the people crying in this thread and threatening to quit do so the vets who miss the game that made eve great will return and set the universe on fire.

oh are you a vet then?
set the universe on fire? how will you do that with cruisers?


You dont have a clue what you are talking about, DNSBlack is one of the oldest and "respected" individuals in EVE, he knows what he is talking about:

http://evenews24.com/2014/10/01/re-post-a-letter-to-the-csm7-back-to-the-gates/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNXqsxz8V50

And to be hontest, he is on point AGAIN!

ps. DNSBlack will use ARAZUS, not "cruisers".

you still don't answer to my question;
i like how some "vets" here are all joy getting their 2004 eve back, but you faill to consider that in fact this change will not bring back that eve; you didn't have bubble immune intys back then, no nullified t3, no bombers, to name just a few; you did not have CAPS all around the universe back then; also, let's not forget batleships where able to actually do 20 jumps in a resonable amount of time back then, and even the freighters(yea, i know) where able to do an 100AU warp in less that a evening;
so yea, keep asking for 2004 eve back, don't be surprised when all you get will be 250 dreads in the face Cool

ps; i will be curios how will be anyone able to take and keep sov in arazus Shocked
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#5478 - 2014-10-03 13:25:08 UTC
hezie99 wrote:
As has been said a number of times... I dont believe the issue is with the combat aspect of it, we welcome some of the changes. its more the logistical issues.

CCP: be smart take JFs etc out of this re balance and leave them as are, there is no reason why they should change, especially since you have stopped death clones.




Nerf JF further. Take the knees out from under the large empires. Make logistics impossible to manage for LAAARGE alliances. Once folks start taking care of themselves, they will realize they don't need big daddy to give them handouts.

The loud cry to let up on JF nerfs is the absolute reason the cut should be just a little bit deeper to them.

Honestly, if (as in someone's example) the price of a covert ops cloak goes from 5 mil back to 100 mil.... Sweet, little start up corps/alliances will be able to fund their efforts bringing them to market. A task that is too difficult for a large lazy bloated oversized..... (you get the picture) alliance will be a welcome opportunity for agile and nimble groups.

The covert ops cloaks will get built and prices will stabalize. If they stabalize at really high levels then isk will recoup some of it's value. I recall the days when I paid 14 mil for a fleeting webber because the T2 variant was too expensive. If the best option for a webber is a 14 mill fleeting, then npc loot will again have value and folks will stop to collect it. OMG... this would cause folks to go out an play the game to make isk. They would hang in belts/anoms longer promoting pvp.

My point is that if someones argument is that it's too difficult to XXXXX, those claims are on a personal level. There will always be 1,000s of guys lower on the food chain willing to step up and feast on another's scraps. If you're too rich to be bothered picking up that 14 mill isk webber from the wreck, it's probably time to go lose some ships in pvp.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5479 - 2014-10-03 13:25:22 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:



Lies. Buy a clue from logistics experts before mouthing off again please.



Logistic expert? you call yourself a logistic expert for undockign, clickign Jump dockign imediately, lighting another cyno and clickign JUmp again?


LOL then my dog is a logistic expert as well.


At this point you need to leave the discussion as you just made yourself look incredible silly and somewhat daft.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5480 - 2014-10-03 13:25:56 UTC
gascanu wrote:
Kalissis wrote:
gascanu wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Another 2 things:

1. This hole change in effect renders caps (as logistic) more or less unusable in the grand scheme, CCP, what on earth do you think that will do to nullsec and some low sec PVP? How on earth are sub-cap ships going to get there? Are we going to fly them there 1 by one? I mean honestly? The more I think about it the dummer this change gets!

2. With the current distribution of ice belts, nearly all caps will be mostly grounded. No one can jump their caps because there are not isotopes and no one can get isotopes to the caps because its near impossible (depending where you are ofc)

The patch will make things interesting, but only for a few weeks maybe months. After that it will just be a pain because nothing can be moved. The game will become work, not fun. I do not know the exact percentage of total eve players that live in null, but I am sure its a significant. This patch will make it tough to live in null, and with that alot of null players will stop.

I really support the idea of trying to make capitals being used more on their own, but there must be an intelligent way of doing it, because the current one, as is, is just stupid.


Honestly HTFU. Your post ills me on how soft the players of this game have gotten. The value if time has returned, the value of organizing has returned, the value of ships have return, the onta action dog piling is being gutted, the kits cash cow is being sliced open and spread out all around high sec, ship replacement program have more value. These changes return eve to the day of the lone wolf butterfly effect and move us away from the embarassment of B-R. You need to embrace the cliff and get your lips off of the tit of easy mode. If your are a eve player you will look at these changes and except the challange, if you are a insta action log in when convient fly by mmo wow child you will quit and the over all IQ of if will be better for it. I personally hope the people crying in this thread and threatening to quit do so the vets who miss the game that made eve great will return and set the universe on fire.

oh are you a vet then?
set the universe on fire? how will you do that with cruisers?


You dont have a clue what you are talking about, DNSBlack is one of the oldest and "respected" individuals in EVE, he knows what he is talking about:

http://evenews24.com/2014/10/01/re-post-a-letter-to-the-csm7-back-to-the-gates/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNXqsxz8V50

And to be hontest, he is on point AGAIN!

ps. DNSBlack will use ARAZUS, not "cruisers".

you still don't answer to my question;
i like you some "vets" here are all joy getting theyr 2004 eve back, buy you faill to consider that in fact this chenge will not bring back that eve; you didn't have bubble immune intys back then, no nullified t3, no bombers, to name just a few; you did not have CAPS all around the universe back then; also, let's not forget batleships where able to actually do 20 jumps in a resonable amount of time back then, and even the freighters(yea, i know) where able to do an 100AU war in less that a evening;
so yea, keep asking for 2004 eve back, don't be surprised when all you get will be 250 dreads in the face Cool


Yes indeed, they seem to be thinking that with the combat projection gone, large entities with numbers and ISK are simply going to vanish overnight. It's a mixture of naivety and useless nostalgia.