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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#5441 - 2014-10-03 13:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Another 2 things:

1. This hole change in effect renders caps (as logistic) more or less unusable in the grand scheme, CCP, what on earth do you think that will do to nullsec and some low sec PVP? How on earth are sub-cap ships going to get there? Are we going to fly them there 1 by one? I mean honestly? The more I think about it the dummer this change gets!

2. With the current distribution of ice belts, nearly all caps will be mostly grounded. No one can jump their caps because there are not isotopes and no one can get isotopes to the caps because its near impossible (depending where you are ofc)

The patch will make things interesting, but only for a few weeks maybe months. After that it will just be a pain because nothing can be moved. The game will become work, not fun. I do not know the exact percentage of total eve players that live in null, but I am sure its a significant. This patch will make it tough to live in null, and with that alot of null players will stop.

I really support the idea of trying to make capitals being used more on their own, but there must be an intelligent way of doing it, because the current one, as is, is just stupid.


Honestly HTFU. Your post ills me on how soft the players of this game have gotten. The value of time has returned, the value of organizing has returned, the value of ships have return, the insta action dog piling is being gutted, the jita cash cow is being sliced open and spread out all around high sec, ship replacement program have more value. These changes return eve to the day of the lone wolf butterfly effect and move us away from the embarassment of B-R. You need to embrace the cliff and get your lips off of the tit of easy mode. If your are a eve player you will look at these changes and except the challange, if you are a insta action log in when convient fly by mmo wow child you will quit and the over all IQ of if will be better for it. I personally hope the people crying in this thread and threatening to quit do so the vets who miss the game that made eve great will return and set the universe on fire. It isgoing to take us 2 years to make eve what it once was but eve players will make it happen.
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#5442 - 2014-10-03 13:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Davionia Vanshel
Redwyne Vyruk wrote:
FraXy wrote:
The Slayer wrote:
Sym Biotic wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea?
Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something.



At what length of time does a game stop being a game? With the timer capping at a month will we see people unsub to wait the month, since you have said that it will keep counting down while unsubbed? Jump/capital skills have already taken months/years to train only to then have potential month long cds. I think you guys should really look at a skill refund if players want it, this is a really radical change that trashed some peoples entire enjoyment of the game. To then spit in their face and tell them well just train something else then is just adding insult to injury.

On a completely different note, the continuous comments pointing out player stargates being implemented seems super silly as they nerf jump bridges (player stargates 1.0). Rename it how ever you want, it just seems like poor management to add the same mechanic twice only call it something else.


It baffles me that anyone would think that a system whereby you cannot engage in fleet combat in your vessel for a MONTH is acceptable or warranted. Supercapital pilots are going to be resubbed for fights and left to stagnate otherwise, moreso than they are right now.


Nooo. Not the supercap pilots!
Them not being thrown around willy wonka will be the ruin of Good Fights™.

On a less serious note when can we expect ECM to be buffed, because it is seriously underpowered when there's a chance single targets can get lock against 5 EC-300's.


drones sucks but modules are nto bad at all imo



Math says that at max fatigue you get to make 1 jump per 2.72 days until you go a month (well 29 days and lots of hours) without jumping. Math also says if you go a week without jumping you are SOL if you jump. This is because fatigue takes 10x longer to burn than the jump clock does.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5443 - 2014-10-03 13:03:07 UTC
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Another thing:

- As I understand it, there is not fun in eve anymore - how on earth is making eve MORE WORK going to make that better? I mean seriously. The jump changes make eve more work. That sort of effort sucks!!!!! More effort, less playing AND LESS FUN!!!!

- I suggest again, instead of making eve 3-4 times smaller, make eve 3-4 times bigger.

you don't understand:
there will be ALLOT of new ppl that will do convoy escorts all day; that's where all the fun will be; ppl doing convoy ops and protecting freighters...till they got dropped by 100 caps, lose the freighters and then repeat;
man those convoy ops will be pure fun, they'll have MERCENARYS and all Blink
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5444 - 2014-10-03 13:03:16 UTC
Please Turn wrote:
To all people claiming that Eve is a game and not a second job!

You're perfectly right, the problem is that you don't act like Eve is a game. You (most of you anyway) hide in a sea of blues and build pixel empires and fortunes why exactly? Waiting for pings to hot-drop some scrub is what, to me, feels exactly like a second job. With these changes, hopefully, at least partially, this kind of behavior will be seen less and less.

Oh, but the economy!

Since, we agreed that Eve is a game(did we, right?) were did come this idea that all Eve(null-sec included) must be "FarmVille" online? Let Null-Sec be the wild west, and play Eve as you claim that it needs to be: a game, not your virtual empire that leads to your second job that you seem to hate so much.


Not sure why you think it is bad behavior for them to defend and destroy others near their territory. That is part of holding taking sov. They build "pixel empires" because it is fun to create something in a concentrated group effort, although it may be for other reasons and I am purely speculating. So working together to make a tight community is bad ? Perhaps you are not in the right game but need to go play a single player game, it might be a better fit. Your other comments on the virtual empire and second job make no sense. Until you have clear facts and good arguments to why this is going to work, might just want to sit on the side line a bit.
Koz Katral
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#5445 - 2014-10-03 13:04:40 UTC
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Not that i plan to ever fly a cap.


Seriously, you have never flown a cap, yet you deem yourself knowledgeable to say its a good patch. All cap pilots fly subcaps, but certainly not all sub cap pilots fly caps. Perhaps this discussion should be left to null/low sec and cap pilots alone, since its truly only them who it primarily and significantly affects.


Well, I can safely say that I do fly caps, therefore I fall into your tier of higher class citizens, and you sir need to HTFU

(the kadeshi is one of those disastrous blue dependant alliances that will likely be torn asunder as a result of this :D )
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5446 - 2014-10-03 13:06:25 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Another 2 things:

1. This hole change in effect renders caps (as logistic) more or less unusable in the grand scheme, CCP, what on earth do you think that will do to nullsec and some low sec PVP? How on earth are sub-cap ships going to get there? Are we going to fly them there 1 by one? I mean honestly? The more I think about it the dummer this change gets!

2. With the current distribution of ice belts, nearly all caps will be mostly grounded. No one can jump their caps because there are not isotopes and no one can get isotopes to the caps because its near impossible (depending where you are ofc)

The patch will make things interesting, but only for a few weeks maybe months. After that it will just be a pain because nothing can be moved. The game will become work, not fun. I do not know the exact percentage of total eve players that live in null, but I am sure its a significant. This patch will make it tough to live in null, and with that alot of null players will stop.

I really support the idea of trying to make capitals being used more on their own, but there must be an intelligent way of doing it, because the current one, as is, is just stupid.


Honestly HTFU. Your post ills me on how soft the players of this game have gotten. The value if time has returned, the value of organizing has returned, the value of ships have return, the onta action dog piling is being gutted, the kits cash cow is being sliced open and spread out all around high sec, ship replacement program have more value. These changes return eve to the day of the lone wolf butterfly effect and move us away from the embarassment of B-R. You need to embrace the cliff and get your lips off of the tit of easy mode. If your are a eve player you will look at these changes and except the challange, if you are a insta action log in when convient fly by mmo wow child you will quit and the over all IQ of if will be better for it. I personally hope the people crying in this thread and threatening to quit do so the vets who miss the game that made eve great will return and set the universe on fire.

oh are you a vet then?
set the universe on fire? how will you do that with cruisers?
dhunpael
#5447 - 2014-10-03 13:07:38 UTC
the delicious tears Twisted
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#5448 - 2014-10-03 13:07:50 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Could always just ad moon goo to WH Twisted



NO and I live in one. Just NO
Jethro Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5449 - 2014-10-03 13:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jethro Winchester
Ochiniwa wrote:
Guys,

This is just the beginning of the change.

To all the "rage-quitters"... this is a game you buy, you do not like it, well do not pay for it. As easy as that.

If the game dies, so what, go out there and play something else. We are all here to have fun and if you no longer have fun, move on.

To all those predicting what this change will bring, do not forget what CCP states in the dev blog, this is the first of many changes. They want us to have fun and make money out of this, well help them, make constructive criticism and we will have more fun and they will have more money. WIN-WIN :)

Easy said but not so easy done.

In the meantime I trust they will keep on challenging us and bring us change and upgrades in the next years...

Enjoy


This is not an acceptable change to make on it's own with only the vague promise of "We'll probably be making more changes of some kind at some point in the future." Especially given CCP's track record of severe ADHD.
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#5450 - 2014-10-03 13:08:27 UTC
Came, expecting bags of tears from nullsec overlords theEveisRealLife after to have read the blog, leave satisfied.
Anthar Thebess
#5451 - 2014-10-03 13:09:10 UTC
I love those changes , as they will stop eve being isk/h but effort/outcome.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#5452 - 2014-10-03 13:09:46 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
[

Not at all. Like I said numbers don't lie and I am laughing at your naïve conception of what will happen. You can not move expensive goods through low sec gates in a consistent fashion without losing all of it. I can tell you have never done logistics or you would not be spouting off what you have no idea about. You think you are going to get a piece of the pie somehow but the big alliances will make sure you don't get a crumb. You think when this goes into effect that they wont camp all the choke points to make a point to the devs ? I have 11 years to back up what I am saying which has been put forth logically. Like I said the number of subs vs unsubbs after this goes into effect will back up what I am saying. I HOPE I am wrong.



Provided you can get a cyno;
Provided you have a station or a POS;
Then you can literally go Hisec -> 50LY into null within 1 hour and
Coming out again within 1.4 days ;)
You also need a home station in your cyno locations in case they get killed.

So fvcked due to the fact it takes :effort: and isk to workaround and the workaround is effective and avoids the entire point of why the changes have been said they exist.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#5453 - 2014-10-03 13:09:47 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Another 2 things:

1. This hole change in effect renders caps (as logistic) more or less unusable in the grand scheme, CCP, what on earth do you think that will do to nullsec and some low sec PVP? How on earth are sub-cap ships going to get there? Are we going to fly them there 1 by one? I mean honestly? The more I think about it the dummer this change gets!

2. With the current distribution of ice belts, nearly all caps will be mostly grounded. No one can jump their caps because there are not isotopes and no one can get isotopes to the caps because its near impossible (depending where you are ofc)

The patch will make things interesting, but only for a few weeks maybe months. After that it will just be a pain because nothing can be moved. The game will become work, not fun. I do not know the exact percentage of total eve players that live in null, but I am sure its a significant. This patch will make it tough to live in null, and with that alot of null players will stop.

I really support the idea of trying to make capitals being used more on their own, but there must be an intelligent way of doing it, because the current one, as is, is just stupid.


Honestly HTFU. Your post ills me on how soft the players of this game have gotten. The value of time has returned, the value of organizing has returned, the value of ships have return, the insta action dog piling is being gutted, the jita cash cow is being sliced open and spread out all around high sec, ship replacement program have more value. These changes return eve to the day of the lone wolf butterfly effect and move us away from the embarassment of B-R. You need to embrace the cliff and get your lips off of the tit of easy mode. If your are a eve player you will look at these changes and except the challange, if you are a insta action log in when convient fly by mmo wow child you will quit and the over all IQ of if will be better for it. I personally hope the people crying in this thread and threatening to quit do so the vets who miss the game that made eve great will return and set the universe on fire. It isgoing to take us 2 years to make eve what it once was but eve players will make it happen.


Exactly, and bio or it didn't happen.
FraXy
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#5454 - 2014-10-03 13:09:50 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
FraXy wrote:
On a less serious note when can we expect ECM to be buffed, because it is seriously underpowered when there's a chance single targets can get lock against 5 EC-300's.

Dafuq?
You expect to permajam people with only 5 small EC drones?


I suggest you carefully read the phrasing of my previous post.

One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5455 - 2014-10-03 13:09:51 UTC
flakeys wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
Problem : Less and less players are logging in and playing eve.

Solution : Implement your current proposed changes.

Result : You annoy even more players causing them to un-sub multiple dozen accounts each !

Brilliant plan CCP if you want to kill off this game and move onto other projects because
seriously at the rate your going the only ones playing your game will be Dev's.
Oh wait NO players NO need for Dev's job's complete !

Seriously CCP please STOP listening to the CSM and start listening to your players an exercise
some better thinking and problem solving while you still have a player base at all.

That is if you still want to see this game around in another 10 years !

Changes are needed to keep things fresh and interesting but your plans are a nerf bat too far.


264 pages of comments in 3 days and that number will rise significantly by the time you implement these changes.
That speaks volumes at the amount of disgruntled players your about to cause to quit.



No , that speaks volumes about how nullsec inhabitants have become afraid of changes.

What you suggest will let the game die off in X years , what CCP suggests is giving the game a good kick wich may result in a short term player drop but in the long run a more attractive game for new people to get into.


We are afraid of bad change, you are correct. Not being able to seed markets and move goods to high sec in any reasonable fashion is unacceptable after we have had acceptable means for doing it for years.
Please Turn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5456 - 2014-10-03 13:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Please Turn
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Please Turn wrote:
To all people claiming that Eve is a game and not a second job!

You're perfectly right, the problem is that you don't act like Eve is a game. You (most of you anyway) hide in a sea of blues and build pixel empires and fortunes why exactly? Waiting for pings to hot-drop some scrub is what, to me, feels exactly like a second job. With these changes, hopefully, at least partially, this kind of behavior will be seen less and less.

Oh, but the economy!

Since, we agreed that Eve is a game(did we, right?) were did come this idea that all Eve(null-sec included) must be "FarmVille" online? Let Null-Sec be the wild west, and play Eve as you claim that it needs to be: a game, not your virtual empire that leads to your second job that you seem to hate so much.


Not sure why you think it is bad behavior for them to defend and destroy others near their territory. That is part of holding taking sov. They build "pixel empires" because it is fun to create something in a concentrated group effort, although it may be for other reasons and I am purely speculating. So working together to make a tight community is bad ? Perhaps you are not in the right game but need to go play a single player game, it might be a better fit. Your other comments on the virtual empire and second job make no sense. Until you have clear facts and good arguments to why this is going to work, might just want to sit on the side line a bit.


Short answer. Community != Empire. When two entities control all the Eve universe and they make an agreement to not ever attack each other in any meaningful way that may harm one or the other, then we're past the point of a community working together for some common goal ( that is, unless the goal has nothing to do with the game itself). Genuinely curious, do you disagree on this?

Join TheTuskers, travel to exotic distant lands, meet exciting unusual people and ... kill them!
Kalissis
#5457 - 2014-10-03 13:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalissis
gascanu wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Another 2 things:

1. This hole change in effect renders caps (as logistic) more or less unusable in the grand scheme, CCP, what on earth do you think that will do to nullsec and some low sec PVP? How on earth are sub-cap ships going to get there? Are we going to fly them there 1 by one? I mean honestly? The more I think about it the dummer this change gets!

2. With the current distribution of ice belts, nearly all caps will be mostly grounded. No one can jump their caps because there are not isotopes and no one can get isotopes to the caps because its near impossible (depending where you are ofc)

The patch will make things interesting, but only for a few weeks maybe months. After that it will just be a pain because nothing can be moved. The game will become work, not fun. I do not know the exact percentage of total eve players that live in null, but I am sure its a significant. This patch will make it tough to live in null, and with that alot of null players will stop.

I really support the idea of trying to make capitals being used more on their own, but there must be an intelligent way of doing it, because the current one, as is, is just stupid.


Honestly HTFU. Your post ills me on how soft the players of this game have gotten. The value if time has returned, the value of organizing has returned, the value of ships have return, the onta action dog piling is being gutted, the kits cash cow is being sliced open and spread out all around high sec, ship replacement program have more value. These changes return eve to the day of the lone wolf butterfly effect and move us away from the embarassment of B-R. You need to embrace the cliff and get your lips off of the tit of easy mode. If your are a eve player you will look at these changes and except the challange, if you are a insta action log in when convient fly by mmo wow child you will quit and the over all IQ of if will be better for it. I personally hope the people crying in this thread and threatening to quit do so the vets who miss the game that made eve great will return and set the universe on fire.

oh are you a vet then?
set the universe on fire? how will you do that with cruisers?


You dont have a clue what you are talking about, DNSBlack is one of the oldest and "respected" individuals in EVE, he knows what he is talking about:

http://evenews24.com/2014/10/01/re-post-a-letter-to-the-csm7-back-to-the-gates/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNXqsxz8V50

And to be hontest, he is on point AGAIN!

ps. DNSBlack will use ARAZUS, not "cruisers".
Misha Hartmann
Tribal Mist
#5458 - 2014-10-03 13:11:36 UTC
FU 2 wrote:
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Perhaps another idea:

- Instead of making Eve "smaller" - make eve bigger. The eve universe is crowded, add another dimension, perhaps only accessible by wh's or something


How is it crowded? Sometimes I am so god damn bored going through low and nullsec and not seeing a soul.


The ****** systems no one want are obviously not crowded, but a godo deal of the systems, that make it worth wile staying in are crowded. I retract a previous statement, perhaps not OVERcrowded, but well inhabited.

All I am saying, that perhaps a better solution is adding new space in a interesting way, rather than making existing eve smaller. On a realism argument, the changes are actually not so bad, on a mechanic argument they are a utter shocker. Logistics cannot change that drastically without everyone loosing their footing which most of us have spent alot of hours gaining.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5459 - 2014-10-03 13:11:41 UTC
I am all for a POS mod where you can sit outside the shield and jug isotopes to grind down your jump fatigue quicker than normal.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5460 - 2014-10-03 13:13:00 UTC
Davionia Vanshel wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
[

Not at all. Like I said numbers don't lie and I am laughing at your naïve conception of what will happen. You can not move expensive goods through low sec gates in a consistent fashion without losing all of it. I can tell you have never done logistics or you would not be spouting off what you have no idea about. You think you are going to get a piece of the pie somehow but the big alliances will make sure you don't get a crumb. You think when this goes into effect that they wont camp all the choke points to make a point to the devs ? I have 11 years to back up what I am saying which has been put forth logically. Like I said the number of subs vs unsubbs after this goes into effect will back up what I am saying. I HOPE I am wrong.



Provided you can get a cyno;
Provided you have a station or a POS;
Then you can literally go Hisec -> 50LY into null within 1 hour and
Coming out again within 1.4 days ;)
You also need a home station in your cyno locations in case they get killed.

So fvcked due to the fact it takes :effort: and isk to workaround and the workaround is effective and avoids the entire point of why the changes have been said they exist.


I hope I am wrong, I really am. The other problem I have is the devs stepping in to try to break up what many have worked long and hard to attain, its an open game for a reason and these alliances tend to implode due to their high neurotic behavior patterns. For the record I am an industrialist. You still can not jump around the choke points with a 5ly range, just not possible.