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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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FU 2
Perkone
Caldari State
#5421 - 2014-10-03 12:50:02 UTC
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Perhaps another idea:

- Instead of making Eve "smaller" - make eve bigger. The eve universe is crowded, add another dimension, perhaps only accessible by wh's or something


How is it crowded? Sometimes I am so god damn bored going through low and nullsec and not seeing a soul.

You want some? Come get some!
Andrabella
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5422 - 2014-10-03 12:50:56 UTC
kill the game - great!

give us new content and new nerfs!
Please Turn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5423 - 2014-10-03 12:51:39 UTC
To all people claiming that Eve is a game and not a second job!

You're perfectly right, the problem is that you don't act like Eve is a game. You (most of you anyway) hide in a sea of blues and build pixel empires and fortunes why exactly? Waiting for pings to hot-drop some scrub is what, to me, feels exactly like a second job. With these changes, hopefully, at least partially, this kind of behavior will be seen less and less.

Oh, but the economy!

Since, we agreed that Eve is a game(did we, right?) were did come this idea that all Eve(null-sec included) must be "FarmVille" online? Let Null-Sec be the wild west, and play Eve as you claim that it needs to be: a game, not your virtual empire that leads to your second job that you seem to hate so much.

Join TheTuskers, travel to exotic distant lands, meet exciting unusual people and ... kill them!
Edwin Wyatt
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5424 - 2014-10-03 12:51:50 UTC
gascanu wrote:

i live in venal, and with the new 5ly on jump drive, you cannot reach low sec; so you need at least a mid in someone else sov(CFC). Imagine how long a tower will last there...
or i can get in a hauler and try my luck ... i can adapt to this, ofc, but i'm not sure i want to; you see, i can spend hours cloaked trying to get tru camps on my way to/from empire, or i can play some other fun game..hmm... hard choice Blink


So what you're saying is either make the game easy or Ill quit, LOL
SEE YA!
Ochiniwa
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#5425 - 2014-10-03 12:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ochiniwa
Guys,

This is just the beginning of the change.

To all the "rage-quitters"... this is a game you buy, you do not like it, well do not pay for it. As easy as that.

If the game dies, so what, go out there and play something else. We are all here to have fun and if you no longer have fun, move on.

To all those predicting what this change will bring, do not forget what CCP states in the dev blog, this is the first of many changes. They want us to have fun and make money out of this, well help them, make constructive criticism and we will have more fun and they will have more money. WIN-WIN :)

Easy said but not so easy done.

In the meantime I trust they will keep on challenging us and bring us change and upgrades in the next years...

Enjoy
Misha Hartmann
Tribal Mist
#5426 - 2014-10-03 12:53:55 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Not that i plan to ever fly a cap.


Seriously, you have never flown a cap, yet you deem yourself knowledgeable to say its a good patch. All cap pilots fly subcaps, but certainly not all sub cap pilots fly caps. Perhaps this discussion should be left to null/low sec and cap pilots alone, since its truly only them who it primarily and significantly affects.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5427 - 2014-10-03 12:55:15 UTC
Edwin Wyatt wrote:
gascanu wrote:

i live in venal, and with the new 5ly on jump drive, you cannot reach low sec; so you need at least a mid in someone else sov(CFC). Imagine how long a tower will last there...
or i can get in a hauler and try my luck ... i can adapt to this, ofc, but i'm not sure i want to; you see, i can spend hours cloaked trying to get tru camps on my way to/from empire, or i can play some other fun game..hmm... hard choice Blink


So what you're saying is either make the game easy or Ill quit, LOL
SEE YA!




Or he might jump to his cyno that has scouted the system. Logout.. wait 6 minutes. Log back and do the secodn jump. If he has 1 friend is even easier.

YEs playign will require you to do more stucff AFTER you hit the undock button.. in space.. god forbid peopel using the space in eve.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Big Lynx
#5428 - 2014-10-03 12:55:22 UTC
Edwin Wyatt wrote:
gascanu wrote:

i live in venal, and with the new 5ly on jump drive, you cannot reach low sec; so you need at least a mid in someone else sov(CFC). Imagine how long a tower will last there...
or i can get in a hauler and try my luck ... i can adapt to this, ofc, but i'm not sure i want to; you see, i can spend hours cloaked trying to get tru camps on my way to/from empire, or i can play some other fun game..hmm... hard choice Blink


So what you're saying is either make the game easy or Ill quit, LOL
SEE YA!



So much tears... cause I can't stop laughing...Big smile
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5429 - 2014-10-03 12:55:39 UTC
s bromz wrote:
you want more players in 0.0 your taking the wrong path
you want more players in eve your doing it wrong

Right...LOL... says who?

Quote:
... but ill find a new game if i have to !!!!!!!!!

Well hurry up and get it done...
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5430 - 2014-10-03 12:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhul Chembull
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
The Slayer wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
xanderr wrote:
WTS 1 Nyx and 1 Nomad **** this game, Good luck CCP hope you enjoy another 10 years of continual growth and year on year profit Roll



You mean they shoudl stay on the current capital online that since stablished CONTINUOUSLY decreased subscriptions?


Where are your figures on the subscription levels coming from? Because the last time I saw any official numbers out of CCP they were increasing year on year. I haven't seen any figures released that suggest a decline in subscribers.


There are a lot of emotional outcries but very few statistics to backup many that support this change. I unsubbed all my accounts and I do the industry thing. Again, it was not a fit throwing, but like someone said earlier, I am not spending many days doing something that use to take me a day or so to do. Doing logistics is not fun as is, but it is very essential to the health of the game, they are breaking this mechanic. Again, why go back to transports in horse and carriage when we have had a jet. I just cant go back to a mechanic that creates a ton of boredom.



overreactive childish response. You will NOT spend days. You will take about 1 hour to go jita to ANYWHERE, that if you do nto want to make gate jumps at all. Ifyou are not that sttuborn you can do it in half an hour with the changes.


Not at all. Like I said numbers don't lie and I am laughing at your naïve conception of what will happen. You can not move expensive goods through low sec gates in a consistent fashion without losing all of it. I can tell you have never done logistics or you would not be spouting off what you have no idea about. You think you are going to get a piece of the pie somehow but the big alliances will make sure you don't get a crumb. You think when this goes into effect that they wont camp all the choke points to make a point to the devs ? I have 11 years to back up what I am saying which has been put forth logically. Like I said the number of subs vs unsubbs after this goes into effect will back up what I am saying. I HOPE I am wrong.
Misha Hartmann
Tribal Mist
#5431 - 2014-10-03 12:56:25 UTC
Another thing:

- As I understand it, there is not fun in eve anymore - how on earth is making eve MORE WORK going to make that better? I mean seriously. The jump changes make eve more work. That sort of effort sucks!!!!! More effort, less playing AND LESS FUN!!!!

- I suggest again, instead of making eve 3-4 times smaller, make eve 3-4 times bigger.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5432 - 2014-10-03 12:57:23 UTC
Edwin Wyatt wrote:
gascanu wrote:

i live in venal, and with the new 5ly on jump drive, you cannot reach low sec; so you need at least a mid in someone else sov(CFC). Imagine how long a tower will last there...
or i can get in a hauler and try my luck ... i can adapt to this, ofc, but i'm not sure i want to; you see, i can spend hours cloaked trying to get tru camps on my way to/from empire, or i can play some other fun game..hmm... hard choice Blink


So what you're saying is either make the game easy or Ill quit, LOL
SEE YA!


can you read? where did i say "make the game easy?" are you what, 10 years old?
i sayd "don't make the game worse", it's not the same thing, but yea i think you need to be a bit older that 10 to realise the difference
Misha Hartmann
Tribal Mist
#5433 - 2014-10-03 12:57:26 UTC
hezie99 wrote:
As has been said a number of times... I dont believe the issue is with the combat aspect of it, we welcome some of the changes. its more the logistical issues.

CCP: be smart take JFs etc out of this re balance and leave them as are, there is no reason why they should change, especially since you have stopped death clones.



This may be the most reasonable alternative I have heard so far
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#5434 - 2014-10-03 12:57:40 UTC
This change is a buff to carebearing in deep nullsec and eliminates a lot of ways to create content there. There will be no magical roaming land over the rainbow just endless hordes of ratters, probably renters.

You can have this content right now in the drones, try it and tell us how much fun you had.
Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
#5435 - 2014-10-03 12:58:17 UTC
Ochiniwa wrote:
Guys,

This is just the beginning of the change.

To all the "rage-quitters"... this is a game you buy, you do not like it, well do not pay for it. As easy as that.

If the game dies, so what, go out there and play something else. We are all here to have fun and if you no longer have fun, move on.

To all those predicting what this change will bring, do not forget what CCP states in the dev blog, this is the first of many changes. They want us to have fun and make money out of this, well help them, make constructive criticism and we will have more fun and they will have more money. WIN-WIN :)

Easy said but not so easy done.

In the meantime I trust they will keep on challenging us and bring us change and upgrades in the next years...

Enjoy


I think we can end the thread with this. Close it down please
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#5436 - 2014-10-03 12:58:31 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:


Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.

Uproar of the few that do JF work alone. They want JF work to involve more people. make more peopel play the game.

There are MANY MANY TIMES more peopel interested in the chance to pirate and HUNT freighters than there are Jump frighter pilots in eve. SO YOUR JF pilot group is a minority as well.


With the low concurrent logins, please tell me how this will make increased group work involving JFs possible. No one is going to risk a loot pinata that's hauling billions taking gates without the knowledge that the route is completely safe.

Industrialists are more likely to just relocate to empire than having to deal with the nightmare you seem to be having a wet dream about. Or worse, they'll just quit playing.

You are exceptionally naive if you seriously think that forcing logistics to face risk even from a small gang is going to make them smile and push them into offering multi billion haulers as sacrificial lamb for you.

Your overtly simplistic expectations are adorable, but unrealistic. Economics, production and logistics do not work like that.



So your solution is to let the game die the way it is going? great businness man you are.

These changes have a good chance. Not changing has zero chance.


My solutions is to try to fix a problem that actually exists (force projection of carriers etc) while not breaking something that is not broken - ability to jump a JF across a regional border from an adjacent region) . The math says that the effective range of a JF does not substantially increase if you increase its jump range from 5LY to 10LY. - Doing this makes it go from 120LY until fatigue maxes out at 30 days to 140 LY. With it almost substantively maxed at 130LY.

Doubling the range of the JF from 5LY to 10LY means it can go 60LY in 1 hour instead of the current proposal of 50LY. Basically the arguments about what this is meant to do to - do not apply to the JF - because the 0.1x multiplier means you can jump it far over short periods of time - The issue is all about accessibility of parts of regions. CCP Greyscale stated that it is not the intention to make Jita <-> [somewhere] longer. Well - this change does that. Plan the route with JDC > 0 and then reset it to zero- distance increases.

There are plenty of things you can do to improve these changes - like doubling the JF's range and increasing their jump timer and the rate at which the JF burns off fatigue. Looking at the effects of the math it seems to me that numbers have been chosen arbitrarily. If they are tweaked then JFs for one become usable over variable routes and if they are tweaked more then dedicated logicians remain viable.

Easiest solution is new cyno alts. But starting new toons has to suck as a solution.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5437 - 2014-10-03 12:58:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:


Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.

Ah yes, "uproar."

Well let's look at the "uproar."

Endie, one of your leaders, seems to support it.
So does le reddit.
So too does the bulk of this day 0 straw poll on the subject.

I could go on, but I don't think it's necessary.


They agree with the nerf on combat projection capabilities. If we are to take into account self-interest, they agree, because the changes further strengthen big and organized entities which possess numbers. Large entities will further strengthen their hold on good parts of null, which are in close range to empire markets. They will be able to amass their combat numbers, will securely operate capitals in the regions they would like to hold, and practically make these regions unconquerable and very difficult to disrupt. Null warfare is a game of ISK and numbers. We, as GSF, already have subcap and capital superiority in where we live. We already have numbers and members to put into fighting ships. We already have the money, on both personal and organizational levels.

In short, on a strategic level, taking into account where we live, changes only make us stronger. We already control some of the best (if not the best) regions in EVE in regards to their value and close proximity to empire space.

Combat projection was a separate problem that needed to be dealt with, and with abundant ISK and members, we will be in a much better position after any combat projection nerf. You seem to be ignoring the fact that our approach to the combat superiority always have been different than, say, PL.

Under this thread, I've been talking about logistics and economy, which the Greyscale & Co does not seem to be able to comprehend and take into account. They needed to address the combat projection capabilties, instead, they came up with a change that is going to have negative impacts on every consumer in EVE, regardless of where they live.

By all means, please go on after adequately understanding how these changes will affect for instance, GSF and your organization and realize what I have been trying to highlight here, among with other people who are rightly taking an uproar over the logistical implications.
FU 2
Perkone
Caldari State
#5438 - 2014-10-03 12:58:44 UTC
Jethro Winchester wrote:
FU 2 wrote:
Jethro Winchester wrote:
FU 2 wrote:
I can foresee Jita covered in supercaps :D


Don't forget that Snuff Box, Shadow Cartel, etc, etc will be camping every lowsec entry point with supers, titans, and insta-locking Loki's since nobody will be able to hotdrop them.


Some may pay up for the right to pass.

I wonder where this leads? Will dreads see more PVE? Incursions? In all out rare RvB fights - I would 100% bring dreadnought rather than a Vindicator for example - just for fun.

I also wonder whether they will make the gates bigger? It's silly enough seeing a dread undock. How about a titan going through a gate :D


You seem to think we lowsec folk want or need isk out of our PVP. I won't take a dime from anybody to let them through and I doubt many of the other groups will either.

As for where this leads, it's pretty simple.

Nullsec won't change one bit. Some systems will get shuffled around to make things easier, some tactics will change, the same people will be in charge of the same empires enjoying the same income because they're big enough to work around the new problems. The difference is that they won't move outside their sphere of influence anymore, at least not in numbers. So more stagnation there and it will likely be even worse than before.


You are naive to think people will not want money. Everyone has a price and you will be surprised what people do for money and for how little. Why won't you take money? I know plenty of people who will.

You want some? Come get some!
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#5439 - 2014-10-03 12:59:40 UTC
Misha Hartmann wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Not that i plan to ever fly a cap.


Seriously, you have never flown a cap, yet you deem yourself knowledgeable to say its a good patch. All cap pilots fly subcaps, but certainly not all sub cap pilots fly caps. Perhaps this discussion should be left to null/low sec and cap pilots alone, since its truly only them who it primarily and significantly affects.

I can judge allright. As someone who can get dropped on by caps. As someone who hunts caps, as someone who plays the fiken game i am allowed to have a say and make a judgment. What is your qualification of higher importance? How are you even permitted to make that judgment that you even matter to this game at all?

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
flakeys
Doomheim
#5440 - 2014-10-03 13:00:26 UTC
remus wulf wrote:
Problem : Less and less players are logging in and playing eve.

Solution : Implement your current proposed changes.

Result : You annoy even more players causing them to un-sub multiple dozen accounts each !

Brilliant plan CCP if you want to kill off this game and move onto other projects because
seriously at the rate your going the only ones playing your game will be Dev's.
Oh wait NO players NO need for Dev's job's complete !

Seriously CCP please STOP listening to the CSM and start listening to your players an exercise
some better thinking and problem solving while you still have a player base at all.

That is if you still want to see this game around in another 10 years !

Changes are needed to keep things fresh and interesting but your plans are a nerf bat too far.


264 pages of comments in 3 days and that number will rise significantly by the time you implement these changes.
That speaks volumes at the amount of disgruntled players your about to cause to quit.



No , that speaks volumes about how nullsec inhabitants have become afraid of changes.

What you suggest will let the game die off in X years , what CCP suggests is giving the game a good kick wich may result in a short term player drop but in the long run a more attractive game for new people to get into.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.