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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5281 - 2014-10-03 11:31:59 UTC
Figotka wrote:
Does a titan providing a bridge gain fatigue when people jump through it?
No. Only if the titan itself jumps.


Make it Fatigue becouse you can make chains with titans and teleport 1000 megas with 0 fatigue. This making changes not matter.

The Mega's gain fatigue & jump timers however, so your problem is already solved by them
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5282 - 2014-10-03 11:33:16 UTC
Yugo Reventlov wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yugo Reventlov wrote:
As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live.

I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233

What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination.



I think you fail to grasp why they made that. They want you to NOT JUMP all your way. They want you to make only 1 or 2 jumps to avoid long detours and make the rest by gate.

I do understand. I just wanted to give people an example of what a different world it will be, and to give them the opportunity to check out for themselves how much different their logistics will be.



I still think limit shoudl be 6ly altough. Some specific geographic barriers are too hard to go around with 5ly.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Lugh Crow-Slave
#5283 - 2014-10-03 11:34:34 UTC
Prt Scr wrote:
Having sobered up, reread the original blog and given it some thought, i am OK with the proposed changes. True i would like to see Jump Freighters having a longer range , but can understand the devs. ideas and can live with them. I look forward to my first freighter escort run. A few freighters, 200 cap ships and 1000 support, all jumping gate to gate. ( Going to need to upgrade the servers). Might as well **** everything non blue along the route while travelling. It is going to make life interesting in the blue do-nut.

My major reservation about the changes is the limiting supplies of ice isotopes in the deeper regions of null sec. Its always been a problem, but with logistics getting much harder i'd suggest that all racial ice types become available in all null sec. ice belts.


You may need to change your doctrines to use more of the local caps rather then having ice re-distributed
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5284 - 2014-10-03 11:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
(Hint: T2 materials are tied into null moons)

Hint: there's plenty of moons in lowsec too, to include R32/64, and plenty of the racial ones laying around. We'll get by.



Adn not s single moon will NOT be mined. They will just be mined by different people.


It doesn't matter who mines the moons. What matters is that the costs of getting that moon goo that is necessary for T2 production is going to skyrocket, and that will be pushed on to the consumer. Ask veterans about T2 module and ship prices before Jump Bridges and Jump Freighters were added to the game. A single T2 cloak, which is priced around ~5M currently, used to cost in the excess of 100M ISK. I'm not even getting into the costs of T2 ships.

Also consider the broken state of low end minerals in null, and the necessity to move those from where they can be gathered to null! Null industry buffs does not account to much in the current state of things. Don't tell anybody about producing goods locally, because they are still dependent on logistics that connect the null outposts to the empire.

And finally, please consider applying for a position within nullsec working group at CCP. Since you fail to take into account basic derivatives, I'm sure you'll fit right in.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#5285 - 2014-10-03 11:34:57 UTC
Grave Digger Eriker wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
So reading a lot of this I've come to a conclusion. JF need to be nerfed a bit more. Shorten their range to 4LY or dial up the fatigue settings a bit. Come up with some additional mechanism to get them out into harms way. The whole force projection thing needs to lose it's financial backing. If CFC or who ever can afford to put archons in every 5th system, then jump fatigue has a much smaller effect.

Basis: It's what all the big boys are crying about the most.... so twist the freaking knife until the game gets fun again.


Cripple the wallet and you cripple the organization. The quick way - CCP just deletes any wallet over some set value. Of course this is rediculous. So they need to come up with reasonable ways to drain them over time. The big picture would be to make it fiscally unreasonable to maintain large empires. That's not easily done w/out screwing over the guys a few wrungs down the ladder working their way up.

OK so how to kick the wallet of a vast empire squarely in the junk. Passive isk has to go. That's things like stationary moon goo. If a large group can (and let's face it totally has) put a strangle hold on a passive resource, then it has to go. Getting rid of the goo isn't practical, so move it around. Make it a difficult to find the needle in a large haystack. Make it deplete and be rediscoverable at some random point in the galaxy. Make it so it has to be found (scanned). Make it a pain in the patoot for any one group to control exclusively.

Of course the big guys will say it's of little consequence. They may be right for where they are sitting. For a smaller to middle size group finding a rare moon deposit in their back yard would be a boon. So look at it as helping the little guys instead on not hurting the big guys.

I know if I had a small corner of null and rare goo popped up on one of my moons.... I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd reap the windfall!
Wallets will be drained alright but they won't be fictional ISK wallets they will be the dusty wallets of CCP employees if this is implemented in this iteration. Enjoy your Christmas it may be CCP's last



So you're saying that if large alliances don't get their passive isk the game will collapse and eve will die?? That's laughable. If large alliances don't get there passive isk and collapse - there are thousands (THOUSANDS) of capable players that will step up on a smaller scale and fight over the scraps. We will all have fun doing this fighting. The blue boredom fog will disperse and the kingdom will rejoice.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5286 - 2014-10-03 11:35:09 UTC
Papa Django wrote:
On the macro scale, your big coalitions must die. You are strangling the game. This game need some fresh air.

Come strangle us, then.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5287 - 2014-10-03 11:36:02 UTC
Again

Just popping in to throw an idea I already have and to state an opinion. The changes are not good, regardless to what anyone says. There is no reason to penalize capital ships, as part of the feature is being able to move large amounts of stuff around the universe.

One of the points of the carriers is being able to move large amount of smaller ships in its bay. Taking away their ability takes away one of the main function that is a carrier, transport of other ships. For many, the carrier is a way they keep their combat ships with them as they travel to null, or low, to do whatever activity they do.

The JF and Rorqual, or mini JF, are the main staple of moving large quantities of items. Removing their capability to do this will not only destroy a vibrant market, it will also cause many smaller alliance / corps to be unable to function in null. If the thought here is to break up the "blue donut", I hate this term, then you will just being doing the opposite by removing jump capability. Suggesting them move through gates in null or low sec is pretty ridiculous. We were born at night, just not last night.

I think the idea I really hate is that game developers think we need to break up alliances, which will naturally occur on its own due to the mental instability I have seen that come from many of them. This game is suppose to be an open experience, coming in and putting mechanics because people are innovative enough to claim large regions is counter productive to this goal. If the rest of us want a piece of the action, you have to get organized and find a way to do it, whether through politics or brute force.

For the record, I dislike PL, goons and the entire cross eyed thing, but at the same time this market thrives off all these that we hate. Without titan, super and capital losses, the economy will not be as lucrative as it is right now. Everything is not too bad right now, from ice mining to mineral compression and hauling. I have enjoyed the game far more over the last few months than I have in a long time. When we think about putting a mechanic in that attempts to hamper a group, it usually has the effect of blowing up in one's face. Also without the smooth larger alliances all the tech 2 items that EVERYONE enjoys will become harder to do and prices will skyrocket.

Solution ? There are a lot suggested by a lot better people than myself, but here is a few ideas. Just remove the rorqual and JF from the whole I get dizzy when I jump, although for years we have jumped more than MC Hammer. This will allow the movement of goods around the universe and keep prices fairly steady. Also, rethink your idea of how sov is done, there are other ways around breaking up alliances, than putting in mechanics that penalize everyone, big and small. Again, I am against the break up of alliances as it always happens on its own. I have been here for 11 years, it ALWAYS happens. I remember the whining about BoB way back, that came to an end did it not ? Again, a good portion of the leadership in larger alliances cause the destruction of their own alliance. No need to put mechanics in that evolution takes care of already.

Lastly, as I am very opposed to the changes as I foresee the larger alliances just moving closer to the edges of low and making more problems than anyone wants. Instead of having the donut it will be a ring of fire that will be hard and very unpleasant to get through. This in effect will stop other alliances from going out to null, or the areas will just become renter, as they are now. In the end this is just an all around bad mechanic. Also, we forget that without capital ship losses as they are now, then one aspect of the economy may come crashing to the ground.

To this this effect I have unsubbed for now, not to be a drama queen, but to be in opposition for changes that are bad for this game all around. I play this game for the open feel of it, but slowly we are trying to put in mechanics that hamper this experience. I think this is such a bad idea that I see a decent percentage of people finding something else to do. I am hopeful that I will continue to enjoy this game, as I have for many years. However, having to spend weeks getting items to high sec will not be acceptable with me or others. The mechanics of free movement have been in the game too long. People have said way back we had to do it in fleets ectr. However, that was before the time where subs are where they are now and large fleets of titans were not present either. Also, there was a time where subs were maxed at 1k on the server and null was nothing but infinite jumps of nothingness where the few pirate corps like MoO dwealt. Lets not lose a bunch of subs because you want to break up an alliance that should not be broken up by a development group as is. This is what really bothers me the most, trying to remove groups of people that worked long and hard to hold their territory. You guys can not imagine the logistics and hours they have spent building up what they have. Don't make it all meaningless.

To the short sighted that say, give me your stuff dude and I love salty tears, I say this: earn my stuff dude and earn the space the rest have. I am sorry you can not get people together to oust the opposition, I truly am. However, you can not throw the chess board across the room before the other player is better than you. I never thought I would have to stick up for the asshats of the game.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5288 - 2014-10-03 11:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Lord TGR wrote:
Papa Django wrote:
On the macro scale, your big coalitions must die. You are strangling the game. This game need some fresh air.

Come strangle us, then.

Soon(tm) ~watch this space~.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5289 - 2014-10-03 11:38:32 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
(Hint: T2 materials are tied into null moons)

Hint: there's plenty of moons in lowsec too, to include R32/64, and plenty of the racial ones laying around. We'll get by.



Adn not s single moon will NOT be mined. They will just be mined by different people.


It doesn't matter who mines the moons. What matters is that the costs of getting that moon goo that is necessary for T2 production is going to skyrocket, and that will be pushed on to the consumer. Ask veterans about T2 module and ship prices before Jump Bridges and Jump Freighters were added to the game. A single T2 cloak, which is priced around ~5M currently, used to cost in the excess of 100M ISK. I'm not even getting into the costs of T2 ships.

Also consider the broken state of low end minerals in null, and the necessity to move those from where they can be gathered to null!



No it will NOT skyrocket. It will increase a bit , but not skyrocket.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Melissa Redoran
#5290 - 2014-10-03 11:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Melissa Redoran
Giving JF and Rorqual a bonus at jump fatigue should maybe switched with a bonus to jumprange.
Every Region should be reachable by them without beeing forced to use gates - so you have a CHOICE.
Jump Fatigue should be implemented here 1:1 with the rate for all the other caps.

Switching to this set: higher jump range but longer waitings between jumps - makes also the gate option for transports more viable. Also our sp for jump range skill and so on are not as wasted anymore.

This would make transportation to some deep null regions possible again, while it slows down the delivery of massive volumes of cargo as it should be. And we have a CHOICE again!!!

Jump fatigue timer itself needs no cap at all, as the expotential growth vs. linear reduction + players choice sets a soft cap itself .
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5291 - 2014-10-03 11:38:56 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yugo Reventlov wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yugo Reventlov wrote:
As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live.

I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233

What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination.



I think you fail to grasp why they made that. They want you to NOT JUMP all your way. They want you to make only 1 or 2 jumps to avoid long detours and make the rest by gate.

I do understand. I just wanted to give people an example of what a different world it will be, and to give them the opportunity to check out for themselves how much different their logistics will be.



I still think limit shoudl be 6ly altough. Some specific geographic barriers are too hard to go around with 5ly.


It is not "Hard" it will just be different and will reward team play.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#5292 - 2014-10-03 11:39:42 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
Maybe instead they could limit the number of supercaps on the same grid, as in if there is more than a few supers within 200km you can't cyno or warp another super there, similar to deployable cynojammers. Could be interesting as battles would get dispersed in the system.

Same limits but higher could be applied to caps separately.


So first team in wins?



How about 1 super per 30km sphere? Could be explained as anti-gravity field around it that pushes other ships away proportional to their mass or some such.

TBH i think superblobs and massive capital/firepower concetration is the cause of blue donut, not so much power projection.

Whoever they are, they are rich and they'll just circumvent these changes by prepositioning 5-6 supers per character where needed and roam in interceptors showing up where needed.

Highly concentrated firepower on the grid is the real problem I think.


Might wanna disperse the regular carriers/dreads as well, just with their own separate repulsion distance (I'm thinking 15km radius?)

Supers and carriers repulsion zones will not interact.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5293 - 2014-10-03 11:41:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Lurifax wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yugo Reventlov wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yugo Reventlov wrote:
As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live.

I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233

What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination.



I think you fail to grasp why they made that. They want you to NOT JUMP all your way. They want you to make only 1 or 2 jumps to avoid long detours and make the rest by gate.

I do understand. I just wanted to give people an example of what a different world it will be, and to give them the opportunity to check out for themselves how much different their logistics will be.



I still think limit shoudl be 6ly altough. Some specific geographic barriers are too hard to go around with 5ly.


It is not "Hard" it will just be different and will reward team play.



I know and I want that. But I think might make some specific places be very bad to live. Well ccp can solve that by adding 1 or 2 gates here and there as well. Or maybe move a bit one or 2 star systems :P Some gaps that are 5.0037 Ly for example, could be slightly moved.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#5294 - 2014-10-03 11:42:20 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Again

Just popping in to throw an idea I already have and to state an opinion. The changes are not good, regardless to what anyone says. There is no reason to penalize capital ships, as part of the feature is being able to move large amounts of stuff around the universe.

One of the points of the carriers is being able to move large amount of smaller ships in its bay. Taking away their ability takes away one of the main function that is a carrier, transport of other ships. For many, the carrier is a way they keep their combat ships with them as they travel to null, or low, to do whatever activity they do.

The JF and Rorqual, or mini JF, are the main staple of moving large quantities of items. Removing their capability to do this will not only destroy a vibrant market, it will also cause many smaller alliance / corps to be unable to function in null. If the thought here is to break up the "blue donut", I hate this term, then you will just being doing the opposite by removing jump capability. Suggesting them move through gates in null or low sec is pretty ridiculous. We were born at night, just not last night.

I think the idea I really hate is that game developers think we need to break up alliances, which will naturally occur on its own due to the mental instability I have seen that come from many of them. This game is suppose to be an open experience, coming in and putting mechanics because people are innovative enough to claim large regions is counter productive to this goal. If the rest of us want a piece of the action, you have to get organized and find a way to do it, whether through politics or brute force.

For the record, I dislike PL, goons and the entire cross eyed thing, but at the same time this market thrives off all these that we hate. Without titan, super and capital losses, the economy will not be as lucrative as it is right now. Everything is not too bad right now, from ice mining to mineral compression and hauling. I have enjoyed the game far more over the last few months than I have in a long time. When we think about putting a mechanic in that attempts to hamper a group, it usually has the effect of blowing up in one's face. Also without the smooth larger alliances all the tech 2 items that EVERYONE enjoys will become harder to do and prices will skyrocket.

Solution ? There are a lot suggested by a lot better people than myself, but here is a few ideas. Just remove the rorqual and JF from the whole I get dizzy when I jump, although for years we have jumped more than MC Hammer. This will allow the movement of goods around the universe and keep prices fairly steady. Also, rethink your idea of how sov is done, there are other ways around breaking up alliances, than putting in mechanics that penalize everyone, big and small. Again, I am against the break up of alliances as it always happens on its own. I have been here for 11 years, it ALWAYS happens. I remember the whining about BoB way back, that came to an end did it not ? Again, a good portion of the leadership in larger alliances cause the destruction of their own alliance. No need to put mechanics in that evolution takes care of already.

Lastly, as I am very opposed to the changes as I foresee the larger alliances just moving closer to the edges of low and making more problems than anyone wants. Instead of having the donut it will be a ring of fire that will be hard and very unpleasant to get through. This in effect will stop other alliances from going out to null, or the areas will just become renter, as they are now. In the end this is just an all around bad mechanic. Also, we forget that without capital ship losses as they are now, then one aspect of the economy may come crashing to the ground.

To this this effect I have unsubbed for now, not to be a drama queen, but to be in opposition for changes that are bad for this game all around. I play this game for the open feel of it, but slowly we are trying to put in mechanics that hamper this experience. I think this is such a bad idea that I see a decent percentage of people finding something else to do. I am hopeful that I will continue to enjoy this game, as I have for many years. However, having to spend weeks getting items to high sec will not be acceptable with me or others. The mechanics of free movement have been in the game too long. People have said way back we had to do it in fleets ectr. However, that was before the time where subs are where they are now and large fleets of titans were not present either. Also, there was a time where subs were maxed at 1k on the server and null was nothing but infinite jumps of nothingness where the few pirate corps like MoO dwealt. Lets not lose a bunch of subs because you want to break up an alliance that should not be broken up by a development group as is. This is what really bothers me the most, trying to remove groups of people that worked long and hard to hold their territory. You guys can not imagine the logistics and hours they have spent building up what they have. Don't make it all meaningless.

To the short sighted that say, give me your stuff dude and I love salty tears, I say this: earn my stuff dude and earn the space the rest have. I am sorry you can not get people together to oust the opposition, I truly am. However, you can not throw the chess board across the room before the other player is better than you. I never thought I would have to stick up for the asshats of the game.


Well done. Check back in 9 months and you'll probably discover that there is a vibrant eve where null is full of players fighting each other for its resources. I only wish I could delay your re-subbing 2 months to make you just watch and want what you were too lazy to help build. Call it pennance.
The Slayer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5295 - 2014-10-03 11:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: The Slayer
I love how the big bad alliances out in null sec are accused of "strangling" the game despite being the only reason CCP are ever mentioned in the News Media as anything more than "that Icelandic company with the space MMO" or "that company doing the *new thing that looks cool but ultimately fails*". The only time EVE gets any real press exposure is when one of the nullsec behemoths does something dumb and loses a bunch of **** or one of the "dishonorable liars" that hisec pubbies despise so much steals the equivalent of a nigerian princes fortune from his alliance before running away and trying to sell it on ebay (although I haven't seen one of these stories in years).
Talvorian Dex
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5296 - 2014-10-03 11:43:30 UTC
Kagura NikoJust liken wrote:
ankerf cram wrote:
Do you really want to kill deep 0.0? How can a small alliance live in deep space, if they are not able to control the whole way from and to there area?

Today they can rely on jumpfreighters to get stuff in (t2 Modules, Isotopes of other regions) and out (moongold).

Same problem with black ops if they can't make hit and run operations because they have to wait for the counter to go to zero then the fun of blackop operations is ruined!

For the people of deep 0.0 space do not nerf Jumpfreighters!

For the fun in the game do not nerf blackops!



Remember that there is strong evidence that ccp will add player made stargates. This changes alone would create some problems. But seesm ccp already had this planed long ago. With player made stargates the back lands can deal with it easily.


Yes, coming soon. Just like wormhole pos code reworks..

Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com

Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5297 - 2014-10-03 11:44:19 UTC
I still think limit shoudl be 6ly altough. Some specific geographic barriers are too hard to go around with 5ly.[/quote]

It is not "Hard" it will just be different and will reward team play. [/quote]


I know and I want that. But I think might make some specific places be very bad to live. Well ccp can solve that by adding 1 or 2 gates here and there as well.[/quote]

Bad or safe? It will be a trade off and you will have to decide. It might be a pain to get there, but on the other hand you dont have to fear for the PL buggy man dropping on your carrier.
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#5298 - 2014-10-03 11:45:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Taram Caldar
Kagura Nikon wrote:

WRONG. All wrong. SHow how the whiny players have NO idea of how is to PLAY the game isstead of a spreadsheet.

Before jump freighters the T2 cloacks costed ...... 12 million isk.... amazing hugh?




Minor correction:
Before Jump Freighters T2 cloaks cost ~100 million isk until enough carriers were in use as haulers by putting goods into haulers which were then placed into ship maintenance arrays. A properly configured carrier could haul well over 200,000m3 of goods to/from 0.0 (much quicker then jump freighters now do). Once that started happening T2 modules started to get less and less expensive until the T2 cloak was about 15 million isk. Then CCP introduced Jump Freighters because this was ' wrong' and they didn't like carriers being used as pack mules. At which point, due to the even greater volume they could move T2 prices went down a bit more to roughly where they are today.

Before capitals were used routinely as pack-mules T2 prices were sky high due to the risks and relative difficulty of moving freighters from nullsec to empire in sufficient quantities to provide T2 manufacturers with materials. Furthermore because only very organized alliances could do those logistics moves there was a de-facto lock on t2 production prices. Think Tech cartels that couldn't be gotten around because nobody but the big-boys could safely move the materiels needed... thus lock on pricing... thus costs driven up.

Not saying we'll return to those days but blindly saying 'before jump freighters 'yada yada'' you might want to consider the history a little more closely.

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.  He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5299 - 2014-10-03 11:46:33 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
Papa Django wrote:
On the macro scale, your big coalitions must die. You are strangling the game. This game need some fresh air.

Come strangle us, then.

Soon(tm) ~watch this space~.


Let me guess, VFK by December? Good luck getting to it, with sebo'd carrier gate camps and nanodread fleets all safe in the knowledge they're unlikely to be dropped on.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5300 - 2014-10-03 11:46:44 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Again

Just popping in to throw an idea I already have and to state an opinion. The changes are not good, regardless to what anyone says. There is no reason to penalize capital ships, as part of the feature is being able to move large amounts of stuff around the universe.

One of the points of the carriers is being able to move large amount of smaller ships in its bay. Taking away their ability takes away one of the main function that is a carrier, transport of other ships. For many, the carrier is a way they keep their combat ships with them as they travel to null, or low, to do whatever activity they do.

The JF and Rorqual, or mini JF, are the main staple of moving large quantities of items. Removing their capability to do this will not only destroy a vibrant market, it will also cause many smaller alliance / corps to be unable to function in null. If the thought here is to break up the "blue donut", I hate this term, then you will just being doing the opposite by removing jump capability. Suggesting them move through gates in null or low sec is pretty ridiculous. We were born at night, just not last night.

I think the idea I really hate is that game developers think we need to break up alliances, which will naturally occur on its own due to the mental instability I have seen that come from many of them. This game is suppose to be an open experience, coming in and putting mechanics because people are innovative enough to claim large regions is counter productive to this goal. If the rest of us want a piece of the action, you have to get organized and find a way to do it, whether through politics or brute force.

For the record, I dislike PL, goons and the entire cross eyed thing, but at the same time this market thrives off all these that we hate. Without titan, super and capital losses, the economy will not be as lucrative as it is right now. Everything is not too bad right now, from ice mining to mineral compression and hauling. I have enjoyed the game far more over the last few months than I have in a long time. When we think about putting a mechanic in that attempts to hamper a group, it usually has the effect of blowing up in one's face. Also without the smooth larger alliances all the tech 2 items that EVERYONE enjoys will become harder to do and prices will skyrocket.

Solution ? There are a lot suggested by a lot better people than myself, but here is a few ideas. Just remove the rorqual and JF from the whole I get dizzy when I jump, although for years we have jumped more than MC Hammer. This will allow the movement of goods around the universe and keep prices fairly steady. Also, rethink your idea of how sov is done, there are other ways around breaking up alliances, than putting in mechanics that penalize everyone, big and small. Again, I am against the break up of alliances as it always happens on its own. I have been here for 11 years, it ALWAYS happens. I remember the whining about BoB way back, that came to an end did it not ? Again, a good portion of the leadership in larger alliances cause the destruction of their own alliance. No need to put mechanics in that evolution takes care of already.

Lastly, as I am very opposed to the changes as I foresee the larger alliances just moving closer to the edges of low and making more problems than anyone wants. Instead of having the donut it will be a ring of fire that will be hard and very unpleasant to get through. This in effect will stop other alliances from going out to null, or the areas will just become renter, as they are now. In the end this is just an all around bad mechanic. Also, we forget that without capital ship losses as they are now, then one aspect of the economy may come crashing to the ground.

To this this effect I have unsubbed for now, not to be a drama queen, but to be in opposition for changes that are bad for this game all around. I play this game for the open feel of it, but slowly we are trying to put in mechanics that hamper this experience. I think this is such a bad idea that I see a decent percentage of people finding something else to do. I am hopeful that I will continue to enjoy this game, as I have for many years. However, having to spend weeks getting items to high sec will not be acceptable with me or others. The mechanics of free movement have been in the game too long. People have said way back we had to do it in fleets ectr. However, that was before the time where subs are where they are now and large fleets of titans were not present either. Also, there was a time where subs were maxed at 1k on the server and null was nothing but infinite jumps of nothingness where the few pirate corps like MoO dwealt. Lets not lose a bunch of subs because you want to break up an alliance that should not be broken up by a development group as is. This is what really bothers me the most, trying to remove groups of people that worked long and hard to hold their territory. You guys can not imagine the logistics and hours they have spent building up what they have. Don't make it all meaningless.

To the short sighted that say, give me your stuff dude and I love salty tears, I say this: earn my stuff dude and earn the space the rest have. I am sorry you can not get people together to oust the opposition, I truly am. However, you can not throw the chess board across the room before the other player is better than you. I never thought I would have to stick up for the asshats of the game.


Well done. Check back in 9 months and you'll probably discover that there is a vibrant eve where null is full of players fighting each other for its resources. I only wish I could delay your re-subbing 2 months to make you just watch and want what you were too lazy to help build. Call it pennance.


There will be players and they will be fighting, but there will be less players, maybey a lot less. Shrug