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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#5261 - 2014-10-03 11:22:24 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
Maybe instead they could limit the number of supercaps on the same grid, as in if there is more than a few supers within 200km you can't cyno or warp another super there, similar to deployable cynojammers. Could be interesting as battles would get dispersed in the system.

Same limits but higher could be applied to caps separately.


So first team in wins?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#5262 - 2014-10-03 11:23:00 UTC
ankerf cram wrote:
Do you really want to kill deep 0.0? How can a small alliance live in deep space, if they are not able to control the whole way from and to there area?

By using wormholes for logistics. When I was living in deep low sec I didn't have a JF either and instead used wormholes to bring stuff in.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5263 - 2014-10-03 11:23:03 UTC
on the point of t2 being common he is right . There will need to be moon goo redistribution and a revamp of belts to include more low ends in null sec. But all in all im looking forward to seeing what the change brings. Still believe jump freighters and Rorquals need an exemption rom the range nerf until they address the issues of low ends and moon go i just mentioned
Condritis Aideron
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5264 - 2014-10-03 11:23:42 UTC
Big smile I wonder if they are lining up CCP Greyscale for a sacking? I.e. get him to make an horrendous mistake which loses CCP loads of money and then they can show him the door?
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co.
#5265 - 2014-10-03 11:24:08 UTC
Papa Django wrote:
Easthir Ravin wrote:

It is this kind of posting that reinforces the statement by some, that people who do not live in Nul should keep opinions about Nul to themselves and let the adults have a conversation.


I am seeing childs crying about their future broken toy.

We need changes. Theses are good changes.

Your proposal is denying the changes and keep everything like now, and you call you an adult ...


I agree change is needed but going backwards is not the way to do this. Instead of a region fracturing nerf, we fix the root cause of this, the dated SOV mechanic.

IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES:  " I drank WHAT?!"
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5266 - 2014-10-03 11:24:12 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
(Hint: T2 materials are tied into null moons)

Hint: there's plenty of moons in lowsec too, to include R32/64, and plenty of the racial ones laying around. We'll get by.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5267 - 2014-10-03 11:25:07 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
on the point of t2 being common he is right . There will need to be moon goo redistribution and a revamp of belts to include more low ends in null sec. But all in all im looking forward to seeing what the change brings. Still believe jump freighters and Rorquals need an exemption rom the range nerf until they address the issues of low ends and moon go i just mentioned


No exception to the JF. More stuff will have to be build locally and only the lux stuff imported. Start building your T2 locally.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5268 - 2014-10-03 11:26:29 UTC
Yugo Reventlov wrote:
As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live.

I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233

What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination.



I think you fail to grasp why they made that. They want you to NOT JUMP all your way. They want you to make only 1 or 2 jumps to avoid long detours and make the rest by gate.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5269 - 2014-10-03 11:27:26 UTC
I think i'll give CCP the benefit of the doubt they say these changes are going to work when coupled with the next few. From what i can see the reason they are pushing these out before the rest is because they are ready and can use the time to adjust the numbers. I don't like how it seems a lot of this went around the CSM but again i'll keep faith in the developers of this game I love.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#5270 - 2014-10-03 11:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
Maybe instead they could limit the number of supercaps on the same grid, as in if there is more than a few supers within 200km you can't cyno or warp another super there, similar to deployable cynojammers. Could be interesting as battles would get dispersed in the system.

Same limits but higher could be applied to caps separately.


So first team in wins?



How about 1 super per 30km sphere? Could be explained as anti-gravity field around it that pushes other ships away proportional to their mass or some such.

TBH i think superblobs and massive capital/firepower concetration is the cause of blue donut, not so much power projection.

Whoever they are, they are rich and they'll just circumvent these changes by prepositioning 5-6 supers per character where needed and roam in interceptors showing up where needed.

Highly concentrated firepower on the grid is the real problem I think.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5271 - 2014-10-03 11:28:48 UTC
And as an incidental to my earlier maths.
JF's at 0.1 decay.
Each jump is 1+(Distance*.1) meaning a max of 1.5 fatigue.
So 15 minutes per jump, 20ly/hour.
At 0.25 decay.
6 minutes per jump, 50ly/hour.

If it's 0.25 decay you'll hardly notice the fatigue timer at all on jump freighters and anything else with a 0.1 distance multiplier.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5272 - 2014-10-03 11:29:35 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
(Hint: T2 materials are tied into null moons)

Hint: there's plenty of moons in lowsec too, to include R32/64, and plenty of the racial ones laying around. We'll get by.



Adn not s single moon will NOT be mined. They will just be mined by different people.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5273 - 2014-10-03 11:30:31 UTC
The Ironfist wrote:
CCP Greyscale have you and your team concidered giving JF's and Rorquals the same range Blackops enjoy? (Current titan range 7,85ly)

It would at least solve the problem of logistics unable to make regional divides in the south and North-East. (Not sure how many other divides there are that can not be made with 5ly)

Use gates. They're there for a reason.

Voila! No need to make JFs special snowflakes anymore.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Figotka
Wild Tigers Unleashed
#5274 - 2014-10-03 11:30:33 UTC
Does a titan providing a bridge gain fatigue when people jump through it?
No. Only if the titan itself jumps.


Make it Fatigue becouse you can make chains with titans and teleport 1000 megas with 0 fatigue. This making changes not matter.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5275 - 2014-10-03 11:30:43 UTC
ankerf cram wrote:
Do you really want to kill deep 0.0? How can a small alliance live in deep space, if they are not able to control the whole way from and to there area?

Today they can rely on jumpfreighters to get stuff in (t2 Modules, Isotopes of other regions) and out (moongold).

Same problem with black ops if they can't make hit and run operations because they have to wait for the counter to go to zero then the fun of blackop operations is ruined!

For the people of deep 0.0 space do not nerf Jumpfreighters!

For the fun in the game do not nerf blackops!



Remember that there is strong evidence that ccp will add player made stargates. This changes alone would create some problems. But seesm ccp already had this planed long ago. With player made stargates the back lands can deal with it easily.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
#5276 - 2014-10-03 11:30:50 UTC
Having sobered up, reread the original blog and given it some thought, i am OK with the proposed changes. True i would like to see Jump Freighters having a longer range , but can understand the devs. ideas and can live with them. I look forward to my first freighter escort run. A few freighters, 200 cap ships and 1000 support, all jumping gate to gate. ( Going to need to upgrade the servers). Might as well **** everything non blue along the route while travelling. It is going to make life interesting in the blue do-nut.

My major reservation about the changes is the limiting supplies of ice isotopes in the deeper regions of null sec. Its always been a problem, but with logistics getting much harder i'd suggest that all racial ice types become available in all null sec. ice belts.

uɐıssnɹ pɐǝɹ ʇ,uɐɔ ı ʇnq ʎɹɹos ɯ,ı
flakeys
Doomheim
#5277 - 2014-10-03 11:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Easthir Ravin wrote:
Papa Django wrote:
Easthir Ravin wrote:

It is this kind of posting that reinforces the statement by some, that people who do not live in Nul should keep opinions about Nul to themselves and let the adults have a conversation.


I am seeing childs crying about their future broken toy.

We need changes. Theses are good changes.

Your proposal is denying the changes and keep everything like now, and you call you an adult ...


I agree change is needed but going backwards is not the way to do this. Instead of a region fracturing nerf, we fix the root cause of this, the dated SOV mechanic.



Wich will be one of the next changes , it seems hard for people to understand that this is only the beginning .Nullsec will not go through some changes , it will get a complete overhaul in the end by the looks of it .Something wich should have been done years ago instead of trying to fix it with minor changes left and right.At the end of the day though the main keypoint will not only be movement ability and aliance/corp sizes and how far their sov can reach but contents to actually fight over close to your home and i'm afraid that will be VERRY hard to implement .

Fasten your seatbelts , this is gonna be ONE HELL of a bumpy ride and people are gonna be throw out of the train left and right while the choochoo marches on.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Yugo Reventlov
Keeping Up Appearances
#5278 - 2014-10-03 11:31:08 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yugo Reventlov wrote:
As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live.

I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233

What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination.



I think you fail to grasp why they made that. They want you to NOT JUMP all your way. They want you to make only 1 or 2 jumps to avoid long detours and make the rest by gate.

I do understand. I just wanted to give people an example of what a different world it will be, and to give them the opportunity to check out for themselves how much different their logistics will be.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5279 - 2014-10-03 11:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Alp Khan wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:

It would certainly be awesome from a systemic level if Iceland had to go back to importing goods from off-shore using Viking era Knarr ships. Especially if we forced them to sail through various choke points heavily populated by pirates. Mind, it would totally "suck balls" for people living in Iceland. But then, they chose to live out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

From this blog post.

Oh, that was hilarious. Thank you for posting this here, wouldn't have known about it otherwise.

Also, can't wait to see it in-game! Twisted


They are not removing Jump Freighters, FYI. But since you seem to be applying that hilarious example to your own stature in null, allow me to remind you that as a Goon, I'm lucky and will not be badly affected by Greyscale's ~bright idea~ as a lesser entity such as MoA's average line member would. Twisted

Mate, It may shock you to know that my characters have jump freighters, carriers, and dreads too. Shocking, I know. Being the 53,456 member to join your particular coalition does not, in fact, make you a special snow flake. Cool

Edit - Seriously, the fact that literally everyone has these tools and uses them as often as they do is part of the problem.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5280 - 2014-10-03 11:31:37 UTC
Figotka wrote:
Does a titan providing a bridge gain fatigue when people jump through it?
No. Only if the titan itself jumps.


Make it Fatigue becouse you can make chains with titans and teleport 1000 megas with 0 fatigue. This making changes not matter.



If I understand it right. the fatigue on the megas will prevent the mega usign the titan bridge, So it will work. The megas will not be able to use the other titan bridge asap.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"