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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Cashandraa
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4861 - 2014-10-03 03:16:13 UTC
As if the AOE DD nerf wasn't enough... --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=196054

Blink

Time to resub a few accounts ... this is going to open up 0.0 to the subcap fleets.... should be fun.
Joey Zasa
Swamp Panthers
SONS of BANE
#4862 - 2014-10-03 03:16:46 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
Joey Zasa wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
[quote=Kassasis Dakkstromri][quote=CCP Fozzie]

...



Lets see if the devs can communicate with the CSM first no wonder this threadnaught has hit a near epic level of rage not to mention lies from devs yet again.
]



your a renter....stop



And your corp likes bat phones of triple A your point being what ???



CONFIRMED DNS ARE AAA PETS
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4863 - 2014-10-03 03:18:24 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

Thank you, Kiryen. The obvious escaped me and the many who have posted screenshots in this thread of their unsubscribed accounts.

Also, way to stand up for boring games. Fight the power!

Clearly the obvious did escape you, as does the fact that 'boring' is a subjective assessment. No matter what, some people are going to unsub. If CCP does nothing there will be even more unsubs, just without the convenient threadnaught of rage.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#4864 - 2014-10-03 03:18:40 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
According to the CSM, every 0.0 CSM member is opposed to this change, and none of them were informed or even asked about the nerf to Jump Freighters.

http://themittani.com/features/csm-criticizes-ccp-behavior-alleged-feedback

What say you, CCP?

Ah... yes. That curious site. I suppose CCP is not allowed to change their minds on details without calling for a summit again?
And the CSM was made aware of the pending change... just not all the details and most likely then not all the details because they did not finish fleshing them out. Everything jump capable being effected makes sense. More sense than only combat caps and super caps.

A pain, yes. Game breaking, not.

Perhaps the wrong people are in the CSM representing Null Sec?

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Mona Me
poon-tang
#4865 - 2014-10-03 03:20:57 UTC
Aloh wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
Aloh, did you read this?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5078735#post5078735



Similar idea but different mechanic not entirely happy with it but it would be tons better then the
ideas CCP has ATM. Lets just hope they listen this time.




I have to agree with this.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4866 - 2014-10-03 03:21:22 UTC
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

Thank you, Kiryen. The obvious escaped me and the many who have posted screenshots in this thread of their unsubscribed accounts.

Also, way to stand up for boring games. Fight the power!

Clearly the obvious did escape you, as does the fact that 'boring' is a subjective assessment. No matter what, some people are going to unsub. If CCP does nothing there will be even more unsubs, just without the convenient threadnaught of rage.


Yes boredom, like entertainment, is subjective. Your grasp and enunciation of the obvious truly knows no bounds. Please continue; I look forward to your next banal observation.
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#4867 - 2014-10-03 03:21:51 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
I was actually thinking caldari ice for all the reaction towers all over eve because they are the only towers with enough CPU to get the job done but your little troll ass can't see the full picture can it.

Get back under your bridge.

Oh please. You can fit 1600 hours worth of fuel for large Caldari towers in one JF load. Quit your whining already.


It's more pointing out another flaw in this half assed idea of "living" in a set area and off the resources of that area.

If I'm guna live in a set area I don't want to depend on JF's I'm happy to live off the local resources my problem is that POS's need more attention than jump mechanics as that is where your local reactions are going to happen.

We are either independent of JF's and rely on our local resources or we are not but short sighted "fixes" are the problem.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4868 - 2014-10-03 03:22:56 UTC
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

In context, I was claiming I was entitled not to be bored to death by a game. You and CCP are free to make your own life choices if you disagree with that simple statement. The fact of the matter is I am a subscribing game customer and am entitled to not be bored to death by their product.

Everything in the game is affecting everything else. Your easy logistics are part of the cause of null stagnation, causing boredom and frusteration for thousands.

You are not entitled to any gameplay otber than whats is provided. We are all paying customers. You are entitled only to the access you paid for. Your level of enjoyment is your problem. You are welcome to play any other game of your choice.



While not addressing Null Sec point(s), I want to point out that perhaps between 2003 - 2006 it would be appropriate to say that as customers we are only paying for access to 'their' game... but 11 sandbox years later, the creation of epic emergent content that has made CCP millions of real dollars, and many many statements about stewardship of EVE Online directly from CCP; makes your statement hollow.

At what point does it stop being 'their' game, and start becoming 'our' game?

The CSM, irrespective of it's makeup, 'should' be viewed by CCP as a body designed for an 'Advise and Consent' role - but is more an unwanted burden they have to bear because of past mistakes.

So then they post a devblog like this, to say "Hey! See we're listening to you!", when in reality the development path is decided and our input only serves to gauge positive/negative reaction for some shinny graph created by an overworked ISD volunteer, while at the same time co-opting the community to poke holes in their theory crafting for them.

If you are content with the perspective that this is 'their' game and you only pay for access, and they can do as they wish then you are entitled to that point of view for yourself.

But the remainder of us might feel like we have put enough time, money, and effort into the emergent content of this game so as to be heavily invested in any proposed changes that seriously alter the meta-level workings that help make EVE Online what it is today; our proverbial blood, sweat, and tears.

So, just like a tax payer is 'entitled' to functioning civil services, that address their actual needs; many feel that CCP/EVE Online have reached a point of maturity as an MMORPG that makes it incumbent on them to act as proper stewards of *our* game. And iterating through a CSM 'Advisory and Consent' mechanism that they themselves established - rather than OP-Dev-Crush-It-With-A-Viking-Hammer development style.

Just a thought.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#4869 - 2014-10-03 03:23:24 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
Lets see if the devs can communicate with the CSM first no wonder this threadnaught has hit a near epic level of rage not to mention lies from devs yet again.

Well, this thread is 60% lazy entitled nullbears screaming their heads off that the changes will work exactly as CCP intends, 35% folks like me telling them to HTFU and adapt this is EVE ffs not WoW, and 5% folks interested in the nitty gritty of the mechanics.

Sounds like their goal of identifying edge cases and getting solid feedback from the community is working as intended - just like these changes likely will.


Actually WOW and most others don't ask opinions, or announce changes. You do have to admire that. I've read the upcoming changes Blizzard posted for wow and they are interesting.

That would eliminate all the crying and temper tantrums and show that the devs are in charge of "their" game.

Post changes shortly before the patch goes into effect, depending on what it changes. And done.
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#4870 - 2014-10-03 03:24:19 UTC
LiKuei wrote:
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
I love this change. It reminds me of Battlestar Gallactica when they're being chased by the Cylons after every jump. That crew was fatigued after so many jumps. It wore them down. I love that's what will take place here.

I just wish it affected your performance in combat if you have a fatigue timer still active, no matyer what ship you're in.


THIS THIS THIS X 1000. If you jump, you are making a 100% commitment to the fight.


Did either of you even watch BSG? They were fatigued from jumping literally non-stop for over a 24 hour period if my memory remembers correctly. That means the entire crew was without sleep and RUNNING OUT OF ENERGY. Had absolutely nothing to do with the ship jumping. Please don't post if you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4871 - 2014-10-03 03:25:06 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

Thank you, Kiryen. The obvious escaped me and the many who have posted screenshots in this thread of their unsubscribed accounts.

Also, way to stand up for boring games. Fight the power!

Clearly the obvious did escape you, as does the fact that 'boring' is a subjective assessment. No matter what, some people are going to unsub. If CCP does nothing there will be even more unsubs, just without the convenient threadnaught of rage.


Yes boredom, like entertainment, is subjective. Your grasp and enunciation of the obvious truly knows no bounds. Please continue; I look forward to your next banal observation.


So in other words, your complaint that I was 'defending boring gameplay' was an admission that your problem with this change was entirely based on your personal, subjective preferences, and that you feel entitled to having game design reect your personal likes and dislikes. Got it. Concession accepted.

If you dont like banal observations about the obvious, dont make statements indicating you need the obvious pointed out to you.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4872 - 2014-10-03 03:28:51 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
I was actually thinking caldari ice for all the reaction towers all over eve because they are the only towers with enough CPU to get the job done but your little troll ass can't see the full picture can it.

Get back under your bridge.

Oh please. You can fit 1600 hours worth of fuel for large Caldari towers in one JF load. Quit your whining already.


It's more pointing out another flaw in this half assed idea of "living" in a set area and off the resources of that area.

If I'm guna live in a set area I don't want to depend on JF's I'm happy to live off the local resources my problem is that POS's need more attention than jump mechanics as that is where your local reactions are going to happen.

We are either independent of JF's and rely on our local resources or we are not but short sighted "fixes" are the problem.


They aren't short sighted. They just shouldn't stand alone.

You're right plenty else needs changed.

That doesn't in any way mean these changes aren't also needed, for equally important reasons.

I see nothing wrong with some peoples far-reaching towers going down in the interim. But then again, they aren't my towers to care about Blink

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Patty Loveless
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4873 - 2014-10-03 03:29:08 UTC
Wait-- I'm shocked... The CSM members representing that massive (super) capital-fueled blue donut in null security space don't want arguably their best defense against loosing their outter reaches of space to be nerfed?

I think CCP has commented on this before. They don't design by committee/popular vote, they do what is, in their decision, the best for the game as a whole. Vote with your feet if you feel so obliged.
Dreiden Kisada
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4874 - 2014-10-03 03:31:51 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Dreiden Kisada wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:

All they need to do is ask themselves: Why don't we just have Interbus ship everything people want everywhere in the galaxy instantly with no cost?

They should be able to glean the error of their ways from that answer.



Because no one wants interbus to ship everything everywhere for no cost. That would be even dumber.


Why?
Explain why that would be dumber.

Isn't is just a pointless waste of time moving these things around?
Why do we need to make eve take more time? It's it all just pointless complication?



How's that strawman manufacturing job going?

It's dumber because it nothing should be free and immediate. There's no risk of loss that way.

The changes that are going through go too far the other direction on non-strategic assets. A part of the overall issue is dog pilling caps from every corner of the galaxy. Screwing jump freighters does nothing to deal with that issue.
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#4875 - 2014-10-03 03:32:13 UTC
Rovinia wrote:
Drone 16 wrote:
Pardon the heresy but with these changes to JF's it's almost like they are saying that miners and industry players need to be just as important as combat pilots to the health of an alliance. Perhaps a change in recruitment strategy is needed.



Yes, i'm sure if that goes live, the need for a solid industrial backbone will raise the attractivity of active miner / industry corps. Much things will still be imported, but chances are high that more stuff will be produced locally.

What also means there are more targets to gank Blink

Interesting times comming towards us...


Have to agree with you there. I'm thinking that the days of "pvp only" corps is on the wane and a more balanced recruitment process will be needed.

This new need for industry will be a double edged sword, it will allow self-sufficiency but will also give more avnues to attack an entrenched alliance. If you can't have your industry guys produce and your logistics needs can't be satisfied by imports an alliance can be "starved out".

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4876 - 2014-10-03 03:32:20 UTC
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

Thank you, Kiryen. The obvious escaped me and the many who have posted screenshots in this thread of their unsubscribed accounts.

Also, way to stand up for boring games. Fight the power!

Clearly the obvious did escape you, as does the fact that 'boring' is a subjective assessment. No matter what, some people are going to unsub. If CCP does nothing there will be even more unsubs, just without the convenient threadnaught of rage.


Yes boredom, like entertainment, is subjective. Your grasp and enunciation of the obvious truly knows no bounds. Please continue; I look forward to your next banal observation.


So in other words, your complaint that I was 'defending boring gameplay' was an admission that your problem with this change was entirely based on your personal, subjective preferences, and that you feel entitled to having game design reect your personal likes and dislikes. Got it. Concession accepted.

If you dont like banal observations about the obvious, dont make statements indicating you need the obvious pointed out to you.


Then let me point out something obvious of which you are unaware: my feedback about this change was solicited by the owners of this forum. They asked for this. If you have a problem with that, take it up with CCP.
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4877 - 2014-10-03 03:32:52 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

In context, I was claiming I was entitled not to be bored to death by a game. You and CCP are free to make your own life choices if you disagree with that simple statement. The fact of the matter is I am a subscribing game customer and am entitled to not be bored to death by their product.

Everything in the game is affecting everything else. Your easy logistics are part of the cause of null stagnation, causing boredom and frusteration for thousands.

You are not entitled to any gameplay otber than whats is provided. We are all paying customers. You are entitled only to the access you paid for. Your level of enjoyment is your problem. You are welcome to play any other game of your choice.



While not addressing Null Sec point(s), I want to point out that perhaps between 2003 - 2006 it would be appropriate to say that as customers we are only paying for access to 'their' game... but 11 sandbox years later, the creation of epic emergent content that has made CCP millions of real dollars, and many many statements about stewardship of EVE Online directly from CCP; makes your statement hollow.

At what point does it stop being 'their' game, and start becoming 'our' game?

The CSM, irrespective of it's makeup, 'should' be viewed by CCP as a body designed for an 'Advise and Consent' role - but is more an unwanted burden they have to bear because of past mistakes.

So then they post a devblog like this, to say "Hey! See we're listening to you!", when in reality the development path is decided and our input only serves to gauge positive/negative reaction for some shinny graph created by an overworked ISD volunteer, while at the same time co-opting the community to poke holes in their theory crafting for them.

If you are content with the perspective that this is 'their' game and you only pay for access, and they can do as they wish then you are entitled to that point of view for yourself.

But the remainder of us might feel like we have put enough time, money, and effort into the emergent content of this game so as to be heavily invested in any proposed changes that seriously alter the meta-level workings that help make EVE Online what it is today; our proverbial blood, sweat, and tears.

So, just like a tax payer is 'entitled' to functioning civil services, that address their actual needs; many feel that CCP/EVE Online have reached a point of maturity as an MMORPG that makes it incumbent on them to act as proper stewards of *our* game. And iterating through a CSM 'Advisory and Consent' mechanism that they themselves established - rather than OP-Dev-Crush-It-With-A-Viking-Hammer development style.

Just a thought.



Individual taxpayers are not entitled to services based on their personal wants and demands, but to what everyone is getting. Real taxpayers frequently engage in the same histrionics as mmo players of pretending that everyone agrees with them except the stupid government, with no evidence, as well. Part of CCPs stewardship, much like that of a real govrrnment is protecting the players from the tragedy of the commons. Much like real life taxpayers, players advocate for what they think is good for them, and,lacking real responsibility, simply pretend thats whats good for everyone.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4878 - 2014-10-03 03:32:57 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
It's more pointing out another flaw in this half assed idea of "living" in a set area and off the resources of that area.

If I'm guna live in a set area I don't want to depend on JF's I'm happy to live off the local resources my problem is that POS's need more attention than jump mechanics as that is where your local reactions are going to happen.

We are either independent of JF's and rely on our local resources or we are not but short sighted "fixes" are the problem.

Since CCP's design goal, consistently across essentially every iteration, has been to ensure that no one area of space has access to everything...

... you're fooling yourself that it will ever be the case that you can do everything you want from one place.

Want easier POS logistics and Caldari ice? Move to space with Caldari ice.

Does that mean you have to give something up do to that?

Congratulations - welcome to balancing benefits and drawbacks.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4879 - 2014-10-03 03:33:52 UTC
Joey Zasa wrote:


REAL MEN BIOMASS!!!!!


Dude that's hardcore... props!

Though for myself - Unsubbing as a form of protest is looking better and better. If not for the actual feature, then for throwing CSM under the bus, and lying to us.


CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#4880 - 2014-10-03 03:34:45 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
So, just like a tax payer is 'entitled' to functioning civil services, that address their actual needs; many feel that CCP/EVE Online have reached a point of maturity as an MMORPG that makes it incumbent on them to act as proper stewards of *our* game. And iterating through a CSM 'Advisory and Consent' mechanism that they themselves established - rather than OP-Dev-Crush-It-With-A-Viking-Hammer development style.

If the difference between a video game and a public service is so small in your mind, you have really, really got to get outside. I'm not even joking with this, you need to cancel your sub(s), go outside, and actually live for a while.

EVE is a game. A public service is generally a necessity for safe and healthy living.

Cities and States and Countries provide services to people to allow those people to actually live.

And EVE? EVE is a game.

 Talk is cheap, but Void S and Quake L are cheaper.