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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4621 - 2014-10-03 00:42:38 UTC
Adwokat Diabla wrote:
[quote=Arsine Mayhem]

Yeah so to fuel the PL renter program and just keep it MAINTAINED we have to do freighter ops where we get 10+ freighters to help maintain our renters. This is not to establish it. Saying "form an escort yo" is just not realistic when forming nullsec infrastructure requires such a massive m3 of hauling for people who want to pvp and not spend their free time escorting haulers.


The rental empire would therefore be the problem. Shrink it.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4622 - 2014-10-03 00:43:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
CCP Greyscale wrote:


We ask "is this going to add net positive value to the overall game experience for a sufficient number of players to justify its downsides".



Holy **** ****!! You've already set your development path out, way before you ever came to us! I double arse dare you to call this a focus group now!


Quote:
A focus group is a form of qualitative research in which a group of people are asked about their perceptions, opinions, beliefs, and attitudes towards a product, service, concept, advertisement, idea, or packaging.



Confirming that actually EVE is really a CCP Ant Farm, and Dev's just got new shipment of magnifying glasses into Reykjavik!


Wow we need a new Economist on staff at CCP, so Hilmar can tell you guys to **** all.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Adwokat Diabla
WeebFleet
Tsundere Triad
#4623 - 2014-10-03 00:43:25 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Degalo wrote:
Vinyl Scrattch wrote:

freighter escorts create content

Sure. For the ganker, and only for the ganker.

Unless losing a JF to a supercarrier camp on the regional gate you MUST take is "content".

You could, yanno, use those supers and titans that are gathering dust to clear that super camp that's sitting there waiting for those juicy freighters to come through.

One might even think that using fully insured freighters as bait convoys to lure out overconfident super / titan pilots might become a thing. Particularly in high traffic pipes.

But hey. Who am I to use my imagination?


FA tried to bait me out for 3 hours with a fully-insured freighter. It was both obvious bait and not enough for me to care to drop it. (They were set up so poorly that I could have killed it, warped off and been cloaked up before they could have landed to get tackles on me)
Viceversa
Cancer Therapy
Ginnungagap
#4624 - 2014-10-03 00:43:40 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Viceversa wrote:
What is the reason of nerfing JF?

Has anyone been afraid of JF drops?


In a word: regionalization


Was it to be like isolation?
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4625 - 2014-10-03 00:43:43 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Jump freighters and some form of fitted subcap carrier HAVE to be excluded, or this isn't going to end well. You don't pinch off a diver's oxygen, then be upset when he doesn't come back with any nice underwater pictures.

No, they don't. You already have the tools to get around these issues. Your failure to adapt will not be our problem, and other folks will have absolutely no problem in managing to overcome the challenges you couldn't handle.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#4626 - 2014-10-03 00:44:24 UTC
Thead Enco wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Quote:

Jsut stop thinkignyou can live in 0.0 and playing alone.


Funny... I thought we wanted a null-sec that allowed us to play a variety of playstyles.

If CCP wants us to play the game only one way, then dictate it and do away with the fiction of a sandbox.


The sandbox is a lie EvilEvilEvil


EVE's more a litter box if anything


Would it be bad to say my cat knows more about its litter box than the devs do about theirs ???
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4627 - 2014-10-03 00:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nazri al Mahdi
Veskrashen wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Have you ever done a logistics run? Back and forth in a jump freighter can be 12 jumps. That's no longer possible. I don't care a bit about combat capitals jumping - I actually like that. It's the non-combat capital jumps that cause this thing to be ill-thought out and the consequence of a drunken brainstorming session, not a measured mechanic change.

Yes. I have. Of course back in my day I did it using only 2 accounts and a carrier, so had to make a lot more runs for the same volume. When I wasn't escorting freighters out to the dronelands using subcaps and no titan, that is.

Of course, 12 jumps at maximum speed - jumping as soon as your jump cooldown is done - is less than two hours, leaving you with a little under 7 hours of jump fatigue accumulated and about 41 minutes for your 13th jump timer. Or you could play it really smart and just take 1 jump every 15 minutes, allowing your fatigue to completely dissipate after every jump, and make it there in 3 hours with no restrictions on starting back the other way.

Which obviously is the end of the world and 3 hour round trips in a JF is going to be the end of EVE.

Pansy entitled lazy effing nullbears, I swear. Get off my lawn already.


Outer Passage is 28 mids from Jita with the range nerf, and I need to make 3 runs per week. Be a sport and bring daddy an estimate of THAT, would you?

Without the range nerf, it's 7 mids btw, and that's only because I avoid busy systems that could reduce it to 5. 7 mids is BARELY worth the time it takes me to haul crap - I work crazy hours and have very little time left over for "not having fun". Making the outer fringe of nullsec take half as many cyno jumps as gate jumps is REALLY ticking me off.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4628 - 2014-10-03 00:45:53 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:

Pansy entitled lazy effing nullbears, I swear. Get off my lawn already.

Not sure how you get "nullbears" out of my concern about acquiring a steady supply of PvP ships...

Your (CFC) desire for nice high impenetrable walls, easy logistics, and the ability to helicopterdick folks on the other side of the map for lulz.

Then again, RZR actually deployed to lowsec and is undocking for fights, so some of you don't suck after all.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#4629 - 2014-10-03 00:46:17 UTC
Hey CCP Greyscale this is a game and not being able to use a core mechanic for travel for a month is so utterly retarded I can't believe you seriously consider it a good thing

hope that helps
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4630 - 2014-10-03 00:47:27 UTC
Viceversa wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Viceversa wrote:
What is the reason of nerfing JF?

Has anyone been afraid of JF drops?


In a word: regionalization


Was it to be like isolation?


Is there a difference?

Can we just communicate through an endless stream of leading questions instead of making an actual point?

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Lord Purifier
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4631 - 2014-10-03 00:47:53 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Have you ever done a logistics run? Back and forth in a jump freighter can be 12 jumps. That's no longer possible. I don't care a bit about combat capitals jumping - I actually like that. It's the non-combat capital jumps that cause this thing to be ill-thought out and the consequence of a drunken brainstorming session, not a measured mechanic change.

Yes. I have. Of course back in my day I did it using only 2 accounts and a carrier, so had to make a lot more runs for the same volume. When I wasn't escorting freighters out to the dronelands using subcaps and no titan, that is.

Of course, 12 jumps at maximum speed - jumping as soon as your jump cooldown is done - is less than two hours, leaving you with a little under 7 hours of jump fatigue accumulated and about 41 minutes for your 13th jump timer. Or you could play it really smart and just take 1 jump every 15 minutes, allowing your fatigue to completely dissipate after every jump, and make it there in 3 hours with no restrictions on starting back the other way.

Which obviously is the end of the world and 3 hour round trips in a JF is going to be the end of EVE.

Pansy entitled lazy effing nullbears, I swear. Get off my lawn already.


Not sure how you get "nullbears" out of my concern about acquiring a steady supply of PvP ships...


Think you missed the memo....... Alliances will have to take Industry more seriously. Instead of just churning out caps they will need to build sub caps, they will need to look at having miner corps to mine their minerals & other industrialists to perform the other industry related jobs.
The only real issue is, currently 0.0 will need a resource rebalance, so this is actually achievable, as there are current T2 production resource issues that hinder it.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4632 - 2014-10-03 00:48:18 UTC
Adwokat Diabla wrote:
You are missing the point entirely. People who try to take the space from us will simply be hellcamped right out of nullsec. (Which is what we did last time) We will not be interested in actually developing the space, which ultimately will lead to nullsec becoming alot more empty, with only massive coalitions able to live in null, because the small guys will just get crushed right back to lowsec. How is this beneficial to the game? When you dramatically increase the barriers to entry all you do is make coalitions become bigger and less people willing to come into null.

And this is different from the current state of nullsec play how, exactly...?

Oh, and while you're hellcamping one crew in here, that means your supers / titans / caps aren't in a position to rapidly deploy over there to hellcamp that other crew in. Which, you know, is kinda the point of these changes - to force you to pick your fights.

You won't be able to be everywhere you want to be anymore.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
SanDooD
Perkone
Caldari State
#4633 - 2014-10-03 00:48:43 UTC
Somewhere in CCP HQ:

Person In Charge: Null is stagnant!

Person A: We need to make space bigger!
Person B: We could always merge WH space with K space?
Person C: We could add more systems?
Person D: We could open the EVE gate?
Person E: We could open Jove space for starters?
Person F: We could allow sub-light travel between systems?
Person G: IdeaWe make everyone move slower than a snail! And! We make ships get fatigue, yeah!

Person In Charge: I like the G idea!
Adwokat Diabla
WeebFleet
Tsundere Triad
#4634 - 2014-10-03 00:49:04 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Hey CCP Greyscale this is a game and not being able to use a core mechanic for travel for a month is so utterly retarded I can't believe you seriously consider it a good thing

hope that helps


Apparently this needs to be re-iterated.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4635 - 2014-10-03 00:50:34 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
I didn't find out until just last week that they weren't allowed to be in null sec. That was a shocker, but did explain a few things.


That statement is not accurate. EVE developers are definitely permitted to play the game in any region on their personal accounts.



The irony.

So many other posts to reply to.... but hey... gee ... thanks for setting that dude (and the rest of us at large) straight!

Truly a +1 Dev post there Roll

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Radd Trigon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4636 - 2014-10-03 00:50:41 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


I really dislike this. No disrespect intended, but it feels like a hastily cobbled together workaround to solve an inherent weakness of your medical clone plan. It also doesn't seem to have any basis in the lore of the game (but truth be told, the current medical clone system is disconnected with the lore as well).

I really think this is the approach you should consider:


  • Eliminate medical clones and instead allow pilots to designate one of their JCs as the "active" clone in case of podding.
  • Each player would thus start with a jump clone installed in his/her home system, designated as the active clone.
  • Any jump clone can be designated the "active" one, but it is on the same timer as your clone jump timer (or a different timer with the same duration) so you can't effectively have unlimited clone jumps.
  • Allow clones to be moved like any other good in New Eden, either by you or by someone else. Clones could be contracted just like ships or other goods.
  • When a clone is dropped in your hangar in any station, it will be installed at that station (assuming that there is not a clone installed there already).
  • If there is a clone there already, the clone will sit in your hangar until you move it or until the current clone is activated.
  • If a clone gets destroyed, too bad; make a new one.
  • Because it is too risky, you cannot move your only remaining clone. At least one must be installed in a station at all times.
  • When you need to upgrade your clone, you must upgrade all clones (a nice little ISK sink!).


These changes would prevent the OP ability to ping pong around the galaxy at very little cost while not completely destroying a game mechanic that has very real usefulness. In addition, it makes sense in the context of the lore of New Eden unlike the current (and proposed) medical clone system. Finally, it would add some interesting content to the game (imagine a corporation shipping hundreds of clones to a new system or the newbie getting his first taste of logistics in shipping his own clone out to 0.0).
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#4637 - 2014-10-03 00:51:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Davionia Vanshel
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Nicer tuning options, yes, but we want to keep the math as simple as possible, so people can more easily wrap their heads around it.


We'd rather math that produces a workable result. And we've also wrapped our heads around the math for eg weapons tracking, missile damage, boost multiplication, alignment times with module stacking penalties and standings changes; and the equation offered here was more simple than those.
Fellsworn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4638 - 2014-10-03 00:52:08 UTC
Hehe that article was a good read :D

But seriously what is really planned ?
Thead Enco
Domheimed
#4639 - 2014-10-03 00:52:46 UTC
SanDooD wrote:
Somewhere in CCP HQ:

Person In Charge: Null is stagnant!

Person A: We need to make space bigger!
Person B: We could always merge WH space with K space?
Person C: We could add more systems?
Person D: We could open the EVE gate?
Person E: We could open Jove space for starters?
Person F: We could allow sub-light travel between systems?
Person G: IdeaWe make everyone move slower than a snail! And! We make ships get fatigue, yeah!

Person In Charge: I like the G idea!


THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4640 - 2014-10-03 00:54:16 UTC
Adwokat Diabla wrote:
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Hey CCP Greyscale this is a game and not being able to use a core mechanic for travel for a month is so utterly retarded I can't believe you seriously consider it a good thing

hope that helps


Apparently this needs to be re-iterated.


Apparently 'adapt' and 'wait out your timer and you wont have to wait a month' need reiterated.

I cried about the original nanonerf back in the day.
You'll get over it, then get over what asses you made of yourselves crying and doomsaying on forums... then you'll enjoy a better, more balanced game... and pretend you supported the changes all along.

It's Eve's 3 step process of coping with changes you don't like. It's natural.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."