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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#4461 - 2014-10-02 23:21:38 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Stay focused everyone. Keep the balanced ideas coming in. If we work hard CCP will meet us half way with changes we can all agree on.


You're new here aren't you.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#4462 - 2014-10-02 23:22:29 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Stay focused everyone. Keep the balanced ideas coming in. If we work hard CCP will meet us half way with changes we can all agree on.


You're new here aren't you.


nah I remember him from the Frege days and Mad pact

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#4463 - 2014-10-02 23:23:18 UTC
Innominate wrote:
Erufen Rito wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

That's a question I'd suggest you ask your leaders, not us.

Well, no. See, the game is designed as we know it right now. You guys can blob at your hearts content as of today.

With the changes, and more to the point, the question being asked, Grayscale's reply is correct.
Why should CCP tell you how to adapt to the changes and play the game? Get your alliance leaders to figure that bit out for you. Shed weight if you need to, and move on. Adapt and survive, or die out is what he is saying.


We can blob to our heart's content after the changes, just the mechanics for doing so change slightly.

Nobody is asking him to figure it out for us, we know how, we can and will adapt to them. The problem is that Greyscale literally does not understand his own changes.


Good luck scrambling your subcap fleets all over the far reaches of your space. Gonna take a heck of a lot longer than hotdropping. And the people going after you might just bring their own caps, knowing yours wont be able to respond.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#4464 - 2014-10-02 23:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsine Mayhem
Innominate wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

That's a question I'd suggest you ask your leaders, not us.


Are you seriously blaming the the players for playing the game as it is designed?



Yea, cause CCP knew you were going to be such coward carebears and make half of the player base blue and the other half treaty.

Yea that was designed into the game wasn't it GOON.

They knew you were scared little girls, coddling your capitals, crying when you get attacked all over the forums.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2i0rrl/death_to_all_whining_nullbears/
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#4465 - 2014-10-02 23:24:08 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Stay focused everyone. Keep the balanced ideas coming in. If we work hard CCP will meet us half way with changes we can all agree on.


You're new here aren't you.


Aahh the optimistic noob I remember the day when I was one of them, It was a sunny Saturday afternoon and....................
Yroc Jannseen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4466 - 2014-10-02 23:26:03 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Innominate wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

That's a question I'd suggest you ask your leaders, not us.


Are you seriously blaming the the players for playing the game as it is designed?



Yea, cause CCP knew you were going to be such coward carebears and make half of the player base blue and the other half treaty.

Yea that was designed into the game wasn't it GOON.

They knew you were scared little girls, coddling your capitals, crying when you get attacked all over the forums.


You do realize goons conquered half the galaxy right?

How many times can you defeat the same people?
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4467 - 2014-10-02 23:26:19 UTC
Innominate wrote:
The problem is that Greyscale literally does not understand his own changes.


The vast majority of people seem willing to wager he literally does.

Unless you have some info on his personal plans we're not privy to?

Perhaps some NDA violating info one of your little friends fed you? Lol

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#4468 - 2014-10-02 23:27:07 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Stay focused everyone. Keep the balanced ideas coming in. If we work hard CCP will meet us half way with changes we can all agree on.


You're new here aren't you.


Aahh the optimistic noob I remember the day when I was one of them, It was a sunny Saturday afternoon and....................


You're the problem N3, just bio and game fixt.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#4469 - 2014-10-02 23:27:23 UTC
Innominate wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

That's a question I'd suggest you ask your leaders, not us.


Are you seriously blaming the the players for playing the game as it is designed?

Just because you don't understand why the design created the Eve of today, doesn't mean that it's not the root cause. Everything that exists today in nullsec is the inevitable result of how nullsec works and how people work.

And now you're pouring cement into the mix.


The irony of a sandbox is that sometimes bullies come out to play as well. Some leaders are bullies and some are not.
Now, CCP could go all out and remove any mechanic bullies might use and abuse but in so doing they would remove the sandbox. CCP is trying to avoid removing the sandbox and yeah, this hurts, but it hurts a heck of a lot less than other options... like, say, removing jump drives completely.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Sigras
Conglomo
#4470 - 2014-10-02 23:27:25 UTC
Athay Huren wrote:
Megarom wrote:
TDLR; I think there is a better model for that mathemathics involved.


how about this

TimeDrawsNigh wrote:
Counter proposal for the jump delay timer.

Link below is a google excel doc. of cumulative delay timer that incrementally gets longer with each jump.

http://bit.ly/1rOpzTs

It’s a logarithmic scale.

So when you jump you get two timers.

First timer is the jump drive timer; the second timer is jump drive activation delay.

The jump drive timer is a base 30 minutes and every time you make a jump it will record the amount and add +1 to the "Jumps Made Since Timer Began" value. The jump drive timer will reset back to 30 min every time you make a new jump.
The jump drive activation delay is the timer you get once you have jumped. It’s the time you have to wait till the next jump can be made.

The equation for this is below.

http://i.imgur.com/EQpv4Cv.png

The principal of what happens here is that your delay timer gets bigger with each jump. The increment between each subsequent timer gets smaller, causing the graph to plateau out into a logarithmic curve. Eventually after so many jumps the delay timer will reach the same value as the jump drive timer, at which point it’s better with it out entirely and then start the process over.

Initially we found a problem with the function where doing three really short distance jumps would make the times later overall shorter but that has been fixed with the “Jump Amount Modifier.”

So e.g.
Jump 1 > 4.19 LY > delay timer of 6.42min > cumulative time 6.42min
Jump 2 > 4.7 LY > delay timer of 9.72 min > cumulative time 16.14min
Jump 3 > 4.206 LY > delay timer of 11.73 min > cumulative time 27.86min
Jump 5 > 4.564 LY > delay timer of 13.28 min > cumulative time 41.14min
Jump 6 > 1.855 LY > delay timer of 14.15 min > cumulative time 55.29min

Notice the increase in time getting smaller but the time overall still get longer. Bit like the diminishing returns of stacking nerf.

This Post and Equation was worked on by Sieonigh and myself.

Edit: We made this formula under the assumption that Jump Freighters and Rorquals do NOT have the 90% reduction, rather we think Black Ops should have this reduction (which we're implementing).

No!

the point of this change is that you get a bigger penalty for traveling several jumps all at once but little to no penalty for staying local.

traveling 6 jumps from deklien to defend your summer home in fountain should incur a penalty measured in days or at least tens of hours.

you want short travel times for fights? you sacrifice security and attack the people right near you.

you want security? you sacrifice the ability to quickly get to fights...

gone are the days where you could have your cake and eat it too... they never should have existed in the first place
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#4471 - 2014-10-02 23:27:46 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Yea, cause CCP knew you were going to be such coward carebears and make half of the player base blue and the other half treaty.

Yea that was designed into the game wasn't it GOON.


Why have a standing system if it never gets used ?????
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#4472 - 2014-10-02 23:29:03 UTC
Kirasten wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
McBorsk wrote:
218 pages? Calm down, people.



I am calm and im trying my best to prvide reasonable comprimises


How many times can I say it. CCP will not compromise. Coming up with new ideas at this point isn't doing anything. They don't care. It doesn't matter how articulate your argument is, this is exactly what they want to do. Everyone crying over how hard their life will be doesn't make them want to change their mind, it makes them assured that these changes are exactly what they want.



You havent been playing long enough then. I have seen them make reasonable compromises. Ive seen them make unreasonable ones too. They have given us ample time to give feed back on the changes. So you can continue to be negative or post constructively like many others and work with them. CCP will listen, sadly a lot of changes happen because too much of the player base is silent.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#4473 - 2014-10-02 23:29:27 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Stay focused everyone. Keep the balanced ideas coming in. If we work hard CCP will meet us half way with changes we can all agree on.


You're new here aren't you.


Aahh the optimistic noob I remember the day when I was one of them, It was a sunny Saturday afternoon and....................

*skill training complete chime* Oh hey! Mining III finished! Time for IV!

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#4474 - 2014-10-02 23:30:07 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Yea, cause CCP knew you were going to be such coward carebears and make half of the player base blue and the other half treaty.

Yea that was designed into the game wasn't it GOON.


Why have a standing system if it never gets used ?????


Y U so SCARED
TimeDrawsNigh
Time Industries Inc.
#4475 - 2014-10-02 23:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: TimeDrawsNigh
TimeDrawsNigh wrote:
Counter proposal for the jump delay timer.

Link below is a google excel doc. of cumulative delay timer that incrementally gets longer with each jump.

http://bit.ly/1rOpzTs

It’s a logarithmic scale.

So when you jump you get two timers.

First timer is the jump drive timer; the second timer is jump drive activation delay.

The jump drive timer is a base 30 minutes and every time you make a jump it will record the amount and add +1 to the "Jumps Made Since Timer Began" value. The jump drive timer will reset back to 30 min every time you make a new jump.
The jump drive activation delay is the timer you get once you have jumped. It’s the time you have to wait till the next jump can be made.

The equation for this is below.

http://i.imgur.com/EQpv4Cv.png

The principal of what happens here is that your delay timer gets bigger with each jump. The increment between each subsequent timer gets smaller, causing the graph to plateau out into a logarithmic curve. Eventually after so many jumps the delay timer will reach the same value as the jump drive timer, at which point it’s better with it out entirely and then start the process over.

Initially we found a problem with the function where doing three really short distance jumps would make the times later overall shorter but that has been fixed with the “Jump Amount Modifier.”

So e.g.
Jump 1 > 4.19 LY > delay timer of 6.42min > cumulative time 6.42min
Jump 2 > 4.7 LY > delay timer of 9.72 min > cumulative time 16.14min
Jump 3 > 4.206 LY > delay timer of 11.73 min > cumulative time 27.86min
Jump 5 > 4.564 LY > delay timer of 13.28 min > cumulative time 41.14min
Jump 6 > 1.855 LY > delay timer of 14.15 min > cumulative time 55.29min

Notice the increase in time getting smaller but the time overall still get longer. Bit like the diminishing returns of stacking nerf.

This Post and Equation was worked on by Sieonigh and myself.

Edit: We made this formula under the assumption that Jump Freighters and Rorquals do NOT have the 90% reduction, rather we think Black Ops should have this reduction (which we're implementing).


The proposed formula above has been modified on the Google Docs Spreadsheet with a Black Ops Modifier which is implemented before the Jump Amount Coefficient (a 90% reduction Modifier).

Link to modified formula with Black Ops Modifier: http://i.imgur.com/GdLdM3R.png

"Darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4476 - 2014-10-02 23:31:41 UTC
this is like... a preemptively redistributed Tidi, with the penalty scaled higher to players who would travel further to cause it.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#4477 - 2014-10-02 23:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: smokeydapot
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Stay focused everyone. Keep the balanced ideas coming in. If we work hard CCP will meet us half way with changes we can all agree on.


You're new here aren't you.


Aahh the optimistic noob I remember the day when I was one of them, It was a sunny Saturday afternoon and....................


You're the problem N3, just bio and game fixt.



AAHH I remember the days when I was about a year old as well.
It was a Tuesday and I was out scrumping for cars when I realised.......................

Erufen Rito wrote:

*skill training complete chime* Oh hey! Mining III finished! Time for IV!


Did I inadvertently give you my API ??
How do you know what skill I just finished training ??
Oh you trying to insinuate I'm a miner through and through.
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#4478 - 2014-10-02 23:32:59 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Kirasten wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
McBorsk wrote:
218 pages? Calm down, people.



I am calm and im trying my best to prvide reasonable comprimises


How many times can I say it. CCP will not compromise. Coming up with new ideas at this point isn't doing anything. They don't care. It doesn't matter how articulate your argument is, this is exactly what they want to do. Everyone crying over how hard their life will be doesn't make them want to change their mind, it makes them assured that these changes are exactly what they want.



You havent been playing long enough then. I have seen them make reasonable compromises. Ive seen them make unreasonable ones too. They have given us ample time to give feed back on the changes. So you can continue to be negative or post constructively like many others and work with them. CCP will listen, sadly a lot of changes happen because too much of the player base is silent.


You weren't paying attention to the Hyperion update if you think this is true today.
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#4479 - 2014-10-02 23:34:01 UTC
Please, riot, take gray away, everything he has ever touched has died in a fire...
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#4480 - 2014-10-02 23:34:18 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Innominate wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

That's a question I'd suggest you ask your leaders, not us.


Are you seriously blaming the the players for playing the game as it is designed?

Given that the players decide what goals to pursue and how, yes. I think it's entirely appropriate to do so.


The Megacorp - renter relationship is profitable for both parties. Successful Eve players put profits first. No mere play mechanic change is going to break this play pattern up. It will just change the method by which you get stomped flat. You will get maybe an extra 30 minutes per roam before they lower the boom on you.

Yay.

If you really want to stop the megacorps you have to make them unprofitable. Many of these 'nullbears' pay billions per month. You're not going to stop that by roaming through twice a week shooting up the place. the only content you provide by doing this is amusement from the locals and a break in boredom for the on call response fleets who are so bored they will hot drop a fly on the windowpane just for something to do.


Use you brain. Break the money chain

Read this:


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5078735#post5078735

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.