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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Solo Wulf
Swiss Cheese Connection
#4281 - 2014-10-02 21:25:42 UTC
CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness
Demonfist
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4282 - 2014-10-02 21:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Demonfist
Jeyz Vega wrote:
I am one of the few "new players" that Eve got in the past year. Im about 11 months ingame and i was really looking forward to get into capital. Now i dont. I mean, how can ccp even consider this kind of big change in a about 11 Years old game?! There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.

Seriously, CCP cant change that. End of the Story. It has been a major part of the Game since 5 or 6 years, wich is combined with years of skilltrainning. If they really go through with this, its just a sign that they are wanting to kill of eve this time for sure.

I really do not want to start the "oh, im gonna quit" crap. But that is basically what CCP forces me to do. I trained so much to get in to carry properly, and now this? No. This is a FAR to big cut in the game.

When CCP Greyscale is sober again you should let him get back to work, but until than.... keep him away form a perfectly running game.

I mean, dont you guys at ccp see the feedback on your twitter, or FB or this dammit forum? Are you blind?`Why do you hate us so much that you want to take away the most beloved ships`?!

They're making this change to make player owned jump gates viable and desired. Because those will probably restore things roughly back to how they are currently when they go in. Or atleast take us some measure in that direction. If they added them now no one would have any reason to actually use them.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.

Endo Saissore
Afterburners of Eve'il Inc.
#4283 - 2014-10-02 21:26:15 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Endo Saissore wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Endo Saissore wrote:


Oh so this stops you from persistently hot dropping people with no penalties to consider?

I understand fully. I also understand that this is CCPs intent. No more hot drop after hot drop.

Welcome to a nullsec filled with roaming gangs again.


Again, I don't disagree with the notion of limiting hot drops or making hot dropping harder, but the question is does it have to be several hours. And why hammer logistics in a similar manner?


I believe JFs pilots will only have 1.5 fatigue after the first jump. If I read that correctly. So logistics should be fine.

Power projection is why there are empty spaces in nullsec and large coalitions. Its why nullsec is stagnant.

When Goonswarm calls to remove all caps then you know there's a problem.


It is still exponential, the function underlying fatigue. As such it will gimp logistics efforts as they currently work. Of course, the solution is to use alts/several players. Trade the JF in station and minimize the fatigue impact.


I agree it gimps JFs, but if you wait 15 minutes between jumps then you don't accumulate fatigue. Not the end of the world and the trade off is worth it IMO.

This is assuming that you gain 1.5 fatigue per jump. I would quote me with those numbers. I'm not the best with math.
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#4284 - 2014-10-02 21:26:46 UTC
It seems that everyone has missed the point. It's not WHAT the megacorps do with these big shiny caps, it's WHY. And the answer is simple.... MONEY. It is more efficient for nullsec industrial entities, who usually handle daily belt raiders and ordinary roams on their own, to PAY for the heavy combat lifting. That is what rental space is all about. Before, the money was in the moons, so they became focal points, but now the money is in the SPACE itself.

If someone is gonna hurt you, and you get the rules changed to take away his gun, then it won't be long till he comes back with a knife. The only thing these changes will effect is the tools and methods of the overlords. Nothing being done here will change the actual status of nullsec at ALL. It just wastes a lot of valuable player time and limits the choices of every player in the game.

If you want to stop all this hot dropping, make renter empire UNPROFITABLE. Hit the mega corps where it hurts......

IN THE WALLET!!!

With just a few simple changes to CONCORD FEES, you can render uninhabited, low activity systems prohibitively expensive. Further, Increase the cost of ALL systems for sov owners above a certain number.

Examples:

a system with less than 5 active players (docked or in space..avg for 24hrs) and no industry/military/strategic index of at least one should cost ONE THOUSAND TIMES the base for every CONCORD sov bill to be paid.

ACTIVE systems, on the other hand...... with lets say.. over 30 pilots and with ANY index at 4 or higher, would pay the base costs for all facilities.

As for SIZE begin imposing sov cost increases for owners of... let's say.... 20 systems or more. Make them pay an extra 25% for ALL sov costs. 50 systems or more? PAY 50% MORE. Hey why not even give the REALLY small holder, like with only one or 2 systems a 50% cost break?

Now CCP, I can't mine the data like you can, so this is just an IDEA, but with a bit of adjusting, I'm willing to bet it will fix the blight issue. Smaller entities can them move in without the burden of rent, develop their own space and can spend the money they save on rent for SELF DEFENSE. Maybe, just MAYBE... no more nullbears.... Wow, what a concept....

Believe me , the megacorps will drop their vast tracts of nullsec blight like hot coals. with no rents there will be no mercenary reaction obligations. Pilots who have been forced to sit and wait all day for a fight wont get trigger happy and hot jump small roams simply out of desperate boredom. Those of you who whine about getting anvil dropped should remember that the guys on the other end must waste ENDLESS hours of their playtime simply waiting on your asses to come along......

All I'm seeing here is STICK. And I might ad a very clumsily wielded one. Maybe you have the wrong minds working on this problem..... I have always found that the CARROT not only works better, it leaves everyone with a more positive, constructive attitude as the process advances.


IN short, treating the SYMPTOMS doesn't get rid of the DISEASE..... you have to find a CURE.

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

Vhaine Vhindiscar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4285 - 2014-10-02 21:26:48 UTC
Varesk wrote:
Can you make it so Supers can dock in stations now? It would be nice to be able to use that character for other things.


This, it's bad enough you essentially killed these guys investments. Such is Eve. It worse that you've destroyed the reason for their ship class, yet still doom them to their space coffins. At least let them dock up and grab a rifter so they can move 8-9 systems with a loosing a few hours of their life.
Regnag Leppod
Doomheim
#4286 - 2014-10-02 21:27:25 UTC
As we get into the time past 24hours from the original posting, I fully expect to see several characters in this thread join Doomheim corp. Otherwise you're just full of it.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4287 - 2014-10-02 21:27:32 UTC
Ok lets have some proper calculations, lets say i want to do 7 jumps with 5ly distance, how long will this take me?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PGt-QAhdRK3ndkpxkL5CVf5tegcrW0OoKSqKLCz0Y8w/edit?usp=sharing

If you jump when cooldown is off every time this will take you 3849 hours. This is a silly amount and its the wrong way to do it.
If I wait for my fatigue to run out after each jump (takes 1 hour) it takes me 6 hours (surprise, i know!)

But if I wait for my fatigue after the first 3 jumps then just wait for cooldown on the remaining i arrive after 3 hours 44 minutes.

And this doesn't even include the possibilities of taking gates here and there.
SoulBlythe
Banana-Republic.
HERO Coalition.
#4288 - 2014-10-02 21:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: SoulBlythe
Capqu wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


oh ur older than 30 days and have already tried one corp? sorry well ur gonna have to wait a year to join us cya

180 days would be better, players over 6 months should be able to move through null i guess but 30 days is way too low considering the % of people who never leave highsec


So this is the way I am understanding this...

You can fly to any station that is a medical one and put in the clone as usual.
A player corp will be able to designate a medical station.
A new player of 30 days or less can medical jump to a freshly joined corporation's designated medical station once per join.
A player over 30 days old may use the corporate medical jump once a year.

Is this correct?
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4289 - 2014-10-02 21:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Kismeteer
MeBiatch wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
Another 40 posts, and this will be the highest replied to topic in this entire set of forums. The only other one was the Reasonable Things megathread awhile back with 4,282 replies.


I still think the biggest ever was the T20 thread... back in the old forums... can anyone find out?


You are correct, there were actually two threads. I only went through the current forums, not the old ones,:
5096 - T20 - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=526462&page=170
3156 - T20 response - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=473335&page=106

Some other important ones.
4304 - speed nerf - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=831524&page=144
3552 - dominion sov - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1210267&page=119
3276 - fighter bombers - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=618279&page=110

e: So we are now past the last major implementation threadnaught, the speed nerf, which was huge. Congrats. We'll see if CCP considers anything, or just blindly implements stuff as they usually do, promising to 'fix it' later. Like the Dominion Sov system.
Dalia Rensini
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4290 - 2014-10-02 21:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalia Rensini
Rollaz wrote:
CCP Greyscale
CCP Logibro
CCP Fozzie

If it hasn't been said before...

A char that's been sold should either:

A. Have it's jump timer reset
or
B. The Character Bazaar char disclosures needs to be updated to require the disclosure of a timer greater then "x" days.



Yeah let's just put more spin on that. Why not reset the timer on transfer that way cap pilots can sell toons to each other for a couple of Plex you get a 0 fatique toon! This is getting ridiculous.
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4291 - 2014-10-02 21:31:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kun'ii Zenya
Endo Saissore wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Endo Saissore wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Endo Saissore wrote:


Oh so this stops you from persistently hot dropping people with no penalties to consider?

I understand fully. I also understand that this is CCPs intent. No more hot drop after hot drop.

Welcome to a nullsec filled with roaming gangs again.


Again, I don't disagree with the notion of limiting hot drops or making hot dropping harder, but the question is does it have to be several hours. And why hammer logistics in a similar manner?


I believe JFs pilots will only have 1.5 fatigue after the first jump. If I read that correctly. So logistics should be fine.

Power projection is why there are empty spaces in nullsec and large coalitions. Its why nullsec is stagnant.

When Goonswarm calls to remove all caps then you know there's a problem.


It is still exponential, the function underlying fatigue. As such it will gimp logistics efforts as they currently work. Of course, the solution is to use alts/several players. Trade the JF in station and minimize the fatigue impact.


I agree it gimps JFs, but if you wait 15 minutes between jumps then you don't accumulate fatigue. Not the end of the world and the trade off is worth it IMO.

This is assuming that you gain 1.5 fatigue per jump. I would quote me with those numbers. I'm not the best with math.


The thing is that the logistics guys really bust their butts. They may make several trips of multiple jumps a day. Now even if you have to wait 3 minutes between jumps to clear fatigue it is entirely possible that you are adding a significant amount of time to this work....to get more poeple out in empty regions of space? Really its all because of jump freighters? Please.
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#4292 - 2014-10-02 21:35:21 UTC
Endo Saissore wrote:


Two jumps (back and forth) gives you a few hours of fatigue.

How often do you plan to jump back and forth?


Jump to the target system; kill target; jump out to your staging system.

There you go, two jumps "back and forth". Roll[/quote]

Jump in, engage your target. Wait five minutes (most of that time should be reduced while you were killing your target)

Jump out with no fatigue.

Problem solved.
[/quote]

its so simple.. why didn't i think of this!![/quote]

Because the person doesn't understand fatigue.

You jump 5 years. Your fatigue is 6. You have to wait 6 minutes to jump again. But your fatigue will be 5.4. If you jump another 5 light years youre fatigue will now be 5.4**6 = 32.4. That means you can't jump again for 32.4 minutes. To get ride of all that fatigue will take 324 minutes just under 5.5 HOURS.[/quote]

Oh so this stops you from persistently hot dropping people with no penalties to consider?

I understand fully. I also understand that this is CCPs intent. No more hot drop after hot drop.

Welcome to a nullsec filled with roaming gangs again.
[/quote]


Nope welcome to a null sec where EVERY entry system and choke point is bubbled to high hell catching all the nice nub gangs taking carriers through gates killing them with bomber gangs.

Welcome to carriers and dreadnaughts carrying nothing but strontium because they can now gate travel sitting there with target painters and webs insta blapping all your ships with 15 sentry drones per carrier while tanking your ever reduced dps

The hot drop after hot drop already has penalties it's called isotobes and capacitor consumption it's not the hot droppers fault them being dropped can't counter what tasty ships they bring to the table.

I have a feeling ccp are getting tired of reading complaints from the un educated eve nubs out there about not being able to jump the character mumy or dady just bought and the capital they also funded through a dam gate.....

On a side note I better be able to use bombs in low sec.
Eigenvalue
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#4293 - 2014-10-02 21:35:27 UTC
Endo Saissore wrote:

I agree it gimps JFs, but if you wait 15 minutes between jumps then you don't accumulate fatigue. Not the end of the world and the trade off is worth it IMO.

This is assuming that you gain 1.5 fatigue per jump. I would quote me with those numbers. I'm not the best with math.


Don't forget the 5LY range nerf. A 3 jumproute is now 6, which is 3 hours round trip by your numbers.

How is that worth it?

RIP blackfrog
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#4294 - 2014-10-02 21:35:40 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
Just want to make it clear that this gives the current blocks an easy 'I win' button as people will have to be organized with lots of allies to stand against an invasion. And the current blocks are organized already. It slows the game down, makes it tougher to get huge fights, and leads to pointless difficulties to newbies and logi people alike.

Any small group that thinks this will help them might want to look closer if you think this will stop people from taking gates to kill you.

Just want to make it clear the above post is called 'fear mongering' and should be laughed at.


Hey, the change is good for goons, I just think it is bad for the game.


by good for goons how? cuss you guys are going to have a billion JF alts for an empire that due to fatigue you cant defend?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

RasTrent
Boom.Roasted
#4295 - 2014-10-02 21:35:54 UTC
in before plex for fatigue reduction.
Operative X10-4
Doomheim
#4296 - 2014-10-02 21:36:43 UTC
These changes will actually bring back the fun in EvE, we will be able to find small scale fights in 0.0 again and not 50-60 jumps of desert systems before you find something. Industry can now make a difference localy, people will need to produce modules and ships and instead of just throw it all in jita, they will have more options and sell localy, in different spots or jita anyways.
Most of people dont get the idea of THINK LOCAL, eve will be big once again, now your jump drives will not be able to reach any place anywhere in 1 minute.
No more mindless hot drops "just because we are bored and lazy to make an actual fleet and fight for the fun"... People nowadays drops superr on cruisers, or even frigates ffs.
Kudos to CCP, they saw that the game was dying and have the courage to change it, back in the years we had 40k-50k players every day, now we barely reach 20k. That's what makes EvE unique, no other mmo devs would have the balls to do something like that, but eve is forever and icelandic balls are huge, god bless EvE! +100 CCP

Obs: For those that are complaining about the word "fatigue", just change it for "jump drive recharge time" or whatever

FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY.

Demonfist
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4297 - 2014-10-02 21:37:09 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
Another 40 posts, and this will be the highest replied to topic in this entire set of forums. The only other one was the Reasonable Things megathread awhile back with 4,282 replies.


I still think the biggest ever was the T20 thread... back in the old forums... can anyone find out?


You are correct, there were actually two threads. I only went through the current forums, not the old ones,:
5096 - T20 - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=526462&page=170
3156 - T20 response - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=473335&page=106

Some other important ones.
4304 - speed nerf - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=831524&page=144
3552 - dominion sov - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1210267&page=119
3276 - fighter bombers - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=618279&page=110

e: So we are now past the last major implementation threadnaught, the speed nerf, which was huge. Congrats. We'll see if CCP considers anything, or just blindly implements stuff as they usually do, promising to 'fix it' later. Like the Dominion Sov system.

Except that "later" is in the pipe now.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.

Dalia Rensini
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4298 - 2014-10-02 21:37:17 UTC
Vhaine Vhindiscar wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Can you make it so Supers can dock in stations now? It would be nice to be able to use that character for other things.


This, it's bad enough you essentially killed these guys investments. Such is Eve. It worse that you've destroyed the reason for their ship class, yet still doom them to their space coffins. At least let them dock up and grab a rifter so they can move 8-9 systems with a loosing a few hours of their life.


Fully supporting this and I believe all titan and super pilot owners do.

Perhaps you could develop an outpost upgrade that allows super/titan docking? Can be limiting such as no other upgrades can be installed in such system etc... but please, it is about time.
Degalo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4299 - 2014-10-02 21:37:18 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:

If you jump when cooldown is off every time this will take you 3849 hours. This is a silly amount and its the wrong way to do it.
If I wait for my fatigue to run out after each jump (takes 1 hour) it takes me 6 hours (surprise, i know!)

But if I wait for my fatigue after the first 3 jumps then just wait for cooldown on the remaining i arrive after 3 hours 44 minutes.


And if you only have ~2 hours a day to play a game, then that will take 2-3 days to make a one-way trip.

The times are too long for a game. Period.

This will push people toward subcaps using gates to travel, but will they have the time when FCs are unwilling to uses JBs/titans to cut some distance off.

CCP also decided to slow down many ships warp speeds, so travel takes longer.

Even the adjustment is absolutely ********: 3 days to make a jump should never have been on the table.

Max cooldown: 24 hours. Max fatigue: 3 days. Far more reasonable, and allows people to actually have a life outside this game.
Sentenced 1989
#4300 - 2014-10-02 21:37:27 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Ok lets have some proper calculations, lets say i want to do 7 jumps with 5ly distance, how long will this take me?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PGt-QAhdRK3ndkpxkL5CVf5tegcrW0OoKSqKLCz0Y8w/edit?usp=sharing

If you jump when cooldown is off every time this will take you 3849 hours. This is a silly amount and its the wrong way to do it.
If I wait for my fatigue to run out after each jump (takes 1 hour) it takes me 6 hours (surprise, i know!)

But if I wait for my fatigue after the first 3 jumps then just wait for cooldown on the remaining i arrive after 3 hours 44 minutes.

And this doesn't even include the possibilities of taking gates here and there.


Yea, you can make a shorted jump to aim for system with big regional gate, jump the gate to cover several lightyears and on the other side just jump out.

All the whining in this thread is getting ridiculous. People want to have jita next door every few minutes, and they want to have ability to strike anywhere on map in 5 minutes...