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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Dalia Rensini
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4261 - 2014-10-02 21:17:38 UTC
Kalissis wrote:
Dalia Rensini wrote:
[quote=Dalia Rensini]


Sorry but you are clearly and totally missing the point here mate. Put yourself in the shoes of the line member of any entity in NPC or sov null corp and move around the map say 50 LY safely with your two subbed accounts without wanting to suicide yourself or biomass the **** out of your character.

The purpose / intent of these changes is spot on. Limit power projection.

The idea / method proposed is not.



What are you talking about, if you fly 50ly just to have some fights, thats whats wrong with EVE right now, that should never ever be the case!

1. Deploy
2. Fight

No need for 50ly jumps. Problem solved.


No, mate What TF are you talking about? I am not at all referring to moving for fights. Personal move / logistics / moving a battleship accros a couple of regions / any reason to travel.

Again. Being able to project a fleet of 200 supercarriers across 3 region in minutes is bad in current state of Eve. However making logistics in null space impossible or tedious game play is not a solution.

Jeyz Vega
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4262 - 2014-10-02 21:18:15 UTC
I am one of the few "new players" that Eve got in the past year. Im about 11 months ingame and i was really looking forward to get into capital. Now i dont. I mean, how can ccp even consider this kind of big change in a about 11 Years old game?! There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.

Seriously, CCP cant change that. End of the Story. It has been a major part of the Game since 5 or 6 years, wich is combined with years of skilltrainning. If they really go through with this, its just a sign that they are wanting to kill of eve this time for sure.

I really do not want to start the "oh, im gonna quit" crap. But that is basically what CCP forces me to do. I trained so much to get in to carry properly, and now this? No. This is a FAR to big cut in the game.

When CCP Greyscale is sober again you should let him get back to work, but until than.... keep him away form a perfectly running game.

I mean, dont you guys at ccp see the feedback on your twitter, or FB or this dammit forum? Are you blind?`Why do you hate us so much that you want to take away the most beloved ships`?!
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4263 - 2014-10-02 21:18:24 UTC
Endo Saissore wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Endo Saissore wrote:


Oh so this stops you from persistently hot dropping people with no penalties to consider?

I understand fully. I also understand that this is CCPs intent. No more hot drop after hot drop.

Welcome to a nullsec filled with roaming gangs again.


Again, I don't disagree with the notion of limiting hot drops or making hot dropping harder, but the question is does it have to be several hours. And why hammer logistics in a similar manner?


I believe JFs pilots will only have 1.5 fatigue after the first jump. If I read that correctly. So logistics should be fine.

Power projection is why there are empty spaces in nullsec and large coalitions. Its why nullsec is stagnant.

When Goonswarm calls to remove all caps then you know there's a problem.


It is still exponential, the function underlying fatigue. As such it will gimp logistics efforts as they currently work. Of course, the solution is to use alts/several players. Trade the JF in station and minimize the fatigue impact.
Rollaz
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#4264 - 2014-10-02 21:18:25 UTC
CCP Greyscale
CCP Logibro
CCP Fozzie

If it hasn't been said before...

A char that's been sold should either:

A. Have it's jump timer reset
or
B. The Character Bazaar char disclosures needs to be updated to require the disclosure of a timer greater then "x" days.

HAVE FUN - MAKE ISK - NO DRAMA No Api's   -   No Wars   -   No Awoxing   -   No Kidding! Hogs is OPEN for recruiting!  Join our in-game channel "Airhogs"
Kalissis
#4265 - 2014-10-02 21:18:53 UTC
Nalle Bear wrote:
CCP you dont want any more players in Eve.
I will Move all my ship to low sec and quit EVE there are so many other on-line game to spend my money on

Remember to give me all your stuff, thx.
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4266 - 2014-10-02 21:20:08 UTC
Can you make it so Supers can dock in stations now? It would be nice to be able to use that character for other things.
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#4267 - 2014-10-02 21:20:12 UTC
Eigenvalue wrote:

Please. The gate feature is absurd. No one is going to move capitals through gates as part of a strategy. They may tactically do it if they have full confidence on the space being safe, but no one will devise a strategy that ever includes a capital fleet gate jump. It's too hard to keep gates secure for the flight times and align times of capitals and the value/risk ratio on a 4B per ship fleet of mega slow ships just doesn't make sense.

Just for that... I'm going to devise a strategy that includes a capital fleet gate jumping. Liek a baws. Cool

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4268 - 2014-10-02 21:20:18 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
Just want to make it clear that this gives the current blocks an easy 'I win' button as people will have to be organized with lots of allies to stand against an invasion. And the current blocks are organized already. It slows the game down, makes it tougher to get huge fights, and leads to pointless difficulties to newbies and logi people alike.

Any small group that thinks this will help them might want to look closer if you think this will stop people from taking gates to kill you.

Just want to make it clear the above post is called 'fear mongering' and should be laughed at.


Hey, the change is good for goons, I just think it is bad for the game.
Fret Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4269 - 2014-10-02 21:21:01 UTC
Jeyz Vega wrote:
I am one of the few "new players" that Eve got in the past year. Im about 11 months ingame and i was really looking forward to get into capital. Now i dont. I mean, how can ccp even consider this kind of big change in a about 11 Years old game?! There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.

Seriously, CCP cant change that. End of the Story. It has been a major part of the Game since 5 or 6 years, wich is combined with years of skilltrainning. If they really go through with this, its just a sign that they are wanting to kill of eve this time for sure.

I really do not want to start the "oh, im gonna quit" crap. But that is basically what CCP forces me to do. I trained so much to get in to carry properly, and now this? No. This is a FAR to big cut in the game.

When CCP Greyscale is sober again you should let him get back to work, but until than.... keep him away form a perfectly running game.

I mean, dont you guys at ccp see the feedback on your twitter, or FB or this dammit forum? Are you blind?`Why do you hate us so much that you want to take away the most beloved ships`?!



Yeah I'm hoping cap toons get cheap on the bazzar.

I'd love to own one when this goes live.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#4270 - 2014-10-02 21:21:05 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Another 40 posts, and this will be the highest replied to topic in this entire set of forums. The only other one was the Reasonable Things megathread awhile back with 4,282 replies.

Just want to make it clear that this gives the current blocs an easy 'I win' button as people will have to be organized with lots of allies to stand against an invasion. And the current blocs are organized already. It slows the game down, makes it tougher to get huge fights, and leads to pointless difficulties to newbies and logi people alike.

Any small group that thinks this will help them might want to look closer if you think this will stop people from taking gates to kill you.


I still think the biggest ever was the T20 thread... back in the old forums... can anyone find out?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
ulililillia
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4271 - 2014-10-02 21:21:09 UTC
Jeyz Vega wrote:
I am one of the few "new players" that Eve got in the past year. how can ccp even consider this kind of big change in a about 11 Years old game?!


stopped reading here
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4272 - 2014-10-02 21:21:12 UTC
Demonfist wrote:
Eigenvalue wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:

Because the person doesn't understand fatigue.

You jump 5 years. Your fatigue is 6. You have to wait 6 minutes to jump again. But your fatigue will be 5.4. If you jump another 5 light years youre fatigue will now be 5.4**6 = 32.4. That means you can't jump again for 32.4 minutes. To get ride of all that fatigue will take 324 minutes just under 5.5 HOURS.


Don't take it out if you can't afford to lose it. Number 1 rule of eve.


When you say "it" you mean your real life time spent waiting for timers to expire right?

That, the ships themselves, and anything else you might be investing in your current ventures.


Sorry I think the thing people are upset about is we are not currently investing hours a day waiting out timers, so that's not a function of our current ventures.

It's the proposed venture for capital pilots, which is the *only function in the game* that has cool downs that accrue into the days.

But, your point is well taken, I don't have hours a day to lose doing nothing. So I expect to be flying sub cap a lot more.

Which is fine to be honest, I enjoy that too. But I think it ruins an entire tier of ships and caps the game progression in a sad way.
Omanth Bathana
Doomheim
#4273 - 2014-10-02 21:21:49 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
Just want to make it clear that this gives the current blocks an easy 'I win' button as people will have to be organized with lots of allies to stand against an invasion. And the current blocks are organized already. It slows the game down, makes it tougher to get huge fights, and leads to pointless difficulties to newbies and logi people alike.

Any small group that thinks this will help them might want to look closer if you think this will stop people from taking gates to kill you.

Just want to make it clear the above post is called 'fear mongering' and should be laughed at.


Just want to make it cleat the above post is called an "appeal to emotion" and should therefore be laughed at.
Kalissis
#4274 - 2014-10-02 21:22:17 UTC
Dalia Rensini wrote:
Kalissis wrote:
Dalia Rensini wrote:
[quote=Dalia Rensini]


Sorry but you are clearly and totally missing the point here mate. Put yourself in the shoes of the line member of any entity in NPC or sov null corp and move around the map say 50 LY safely with your two subbed accounts without wanting to suicide yourself or biomass the **** out of your character.

The purpose / intent of these changes is spot on. Limit power projection.

The idea / method proposed is not.



What are you talking about, if you fly 50ly just to have some fights, thats whats wrong with EVE right now, that should never ever be the case!

1. Deploy
2. Fight

No need for 50ly jumps. Problem solved.


No, mate What TF are you talking about? I am not at all referring to moving for fights. Personal move / logistics / moving a battleship accros a couple of regions / any reason to travel.

Again. Being able to project a fleet of 200 supercarriers across 3 region in minutes is bad in current state of Eve. However making logistics in null space impossible or tedious game play is not a solution.



I see now where you coming from, your problem is logistics, there are so many solutions for that. Back in the day no JFs no Carriers were there to support fast moves across the universe and we managed! You just build your pile of ships/stuff where your home is, no need to move long distances in one go ever.
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4275 - 2014-10-02 21:22:55 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
Just want to make it clear that this gives the current blocks an easy 'I win' button as people will have to be organized with lots of allies to stand against an invasion. And the current blocks are organized already. It slows the game down, makes it tougher to get huge fights, and leads to pointless difficulties to newbies and logi people alike.

Any small group that thinks this will help them might want to look closer if you think this will stop people from taking gates to kill you.

Just want to make it clear the above post is called 'fear mongering' and should be laughed at.


Just want to point out that the above is the fallacy fallacy and should be laughed at. Roll
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#4276 - 2014-10-02 21:23:00 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
It's funny how people are bitching about the exponential growth and demand a fixed timer... because with this they already have a fixed timer after each jump - it's a one hour timer between each jump.
You are simply given the opportunity to jump before that timer expires but at the cost of increasing the timer next time.

Eigenvalue wrote:

Please. The gate feature is absurd. No one is going to move capitals through gates as part of a strategy. They may tactically do it if they have full confidence on the space being safe, but no one will devise a strategy that ever includes a capital fleet gate jump. It's too hard to keep gates secure for the flight times and align times of capitals and the value/risk ratio on a 4B per ship fleet of mega slow ships just doesn't make sense.

Interestingly we wormholers keep hearing from you bluebbears that jumping caps through wormholes is completely safe and we are only a bunch of crybabys.... Roll
Doesn't look so safe anymore when you are expected to do it yourself, huh?

Aaaaahahahaha. +1 :)

Great post Jess :)
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4277 - 2014-10-02 21:23:18 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
You know proponents of this supposed wonderful .... 'Weeee I have to wait 5 days becuase I jumped 4 cyno's; ah ha just take a gate into a bubble camp' wouldn't be so excited if their subcap gate jumps were also affected by jump fatigue?

Please do tell us CCP Greyscale, how space magics makes it that properties of gate jumps versus cyno jumps affect pod pilots any differently???

The stupidity is maddening - and precisely why 'if' a timer were to apply it should be the the Jump Drive, not the pod pilot /sigh


You mean the same space magic that makes our ships behave more like submarines in molasses and not like space ships? The same magic that produces exhaust smoke on missile....the same magic that makes a 1400mm artillery shell weigh 1 kg and have a volume of 0,025 m^3?
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
#4278 - 2014-10-02 21:23:30 UTC
Dalia Rensini wrote:
No, mate What TF are you talking about? I am not at all referring to moving for fights. Personal move / logistics / moving a battleship accros a couple of regions / any reason to travel.

Again. Being able to project a fleet of 200 supercarriers across 3 region in minutes is bad in current state of Eve. However making logistics in null space impossible or tedious game play is not a solution.



Exactly.

I live in hi-sec these days. I keep getting tempted to rejoin some friends back in null for fun and games. It was becoming a serious consideration.

If these changes took effect, I just wouldn't do it. My Carrier is in low sec, if I joined my friends today, I could load it up with the starting things I need and do a 3, 4 or 5 jump hop to go out and join them, get myself setup and ready to go.

with these changes in effect, CCP want me to get my new Corp/alliance to arrange a fleet to come escort ONE carrier through low/null sec in order to join them. Whilst a lovely idea in the land of rainbows and unicorns, it's not practical and you and I know this won't happen, they'll just say "yeah no, not helping with that, just come out in a pod and buy the **** you want out here".

But wait, the **** I want out there is going to be 10x inflated in price than today, because the amount of ballache the logistics guys will have to do to stock markets with ships and modules is going to be significantly different.

I also assume that black frog freight are watching this closely and their prices are likely to go up significantly if these changes go into effect.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4279 - 2014-10-02 21:24:06 UTC
Kalissis wrote:
Arcturus Helio wrote:
CCP Greyscale, is the idea of putting fatigue on a ship hull and not being able to repackage the ship until fatigue is cleared even begin considered? This seems like a decent idea to me but I was wondering if CCP gave it any merit.


Already answered by CCP Greyscale, ships fatigue is more easy to counter then character fatigue.



So in reality this is an attempt to increase alt subscriptions? Because otherwise the time should apply to all pilots making any type of jump since gates and capital jumps work off the same cannon principal! Or are we gonna break that too, because hey caps jumping gates sound cool in year 11 of Eve Online??

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4280 - 2014-10-02 21:25:10 UTC
From the files of unintended consequences: Corp/alliance thefts in null will likely become less common. After all getting that ill gotten loot out to someplace where you can sell it just got exponentially (literally) harder.